Spock has met Carol before but not David.

[UssGlenn]

Something that I've always found interesting in TWOK is the unstated history between Carol Marcus and Spock. He knows her on sight during the Genesis Video and they greet each other warmly on the transporter pad.

KIRK: You remember Doctor Marcus...
SPOCK: Why, of course.
CAROL: Hello, Mister Spock.

Conversely, He has no knowledge of David. Kirk tells him "That young man, he's my son". Not "that's David, he's my son". It seems clear from the wording that the name David would have no meaning to Spock, instead of him not recognizing him because of age.

McCoy may have met her before, given the "It never rains but it pours line". he at least knows about her.

So it looks to me like Kirk, Spock, and Carol have had at least one meeting together in the past, where David was not a factor. Was it before he was born? Did they meet later?

Anyone care to speculate how Carol and Spock knowing each other fits into the timeline? Especially if we assume the little blond lab tech is Carol. By the way, when was David born in relation to the 5 year mission?

 

[kkozoriz1]

Spock could have met Carol and David without knowing that David was Kirk`s son.

 

[Aeolusdallas]

I always assumed "That little blonde lab tech was Carol" I would assume that Spock met her back before David was born and as McCoy is Kirk's best friend he would at least know about her. His rain statement however does imply that he knows her too.

 

[UssGlenn]

Well David was born in 2161 like Memory Alpha says that's 4 years before the 5 year mission, so if they met before his birth Spock still would have been serving under Captain Pike. That pushes the date of Kirk and Spock's first meeting back before the 5 year mission as well.

 

[RoJoHen]

It's certainly possible, given Jim and Carol's estrangement, that Kirk simply never mentioned the fact that he had a son. With Carol obviously not wanting them to be a part of each others' lives, it was probably easier for Kirk to try and forget David as much as he could. As a result, I can definitely see him not mentioning anything about the kid.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I always assumed "That little blonde lab tech was Carol" I would assume that Spock met her back before David was born and as McCoy is Kirk's best friend he would at least know about her. His rain statement however does imply that he knows her too.

When this comes up I usualy wonder if, give Carol's obvious career path and accomplishments, she was was ever a "lab tech".

 

[Aeolusdallas]

I always assumed "That little blonde lab tech was Carol" I would assume that Spock met her back before David was born and as McCoy is Kirk's best friend he would at least know about her. His rain statement however does imply that he knows her too.

When this comes up I usualy wonder if, give Carol's obvious career path and accomplishments, she was was ever a "lab tech".

Well she had to start as someones intern/lab assistant/TA

 

[UssGlenn]

yeah I'm sure she was a lab tech as an undergrad at the very least. Plus this is coming from Gary Mitchell, who seems the type to oversimplify that sort of thing.

 

[Captain Mike]

I always assumed "That little blonde lab tech was Carol" I would assume that Spock met her back before David was born and as McCoy is Kirk's best friend he would at least know about her. His rain statement however does imply that he knows her too.

When this comes up I usualy wonder if, give Carol's obvious career path and accomplishments, she was was ever a "lab tech".

Well she had to start as someones intern/lab assistant/TA

Not to disagree with anyone, but it is just wishful fan thinking as to pinpoint that the "little blonde lab tech" was Carol Marcus. It could have been another woman for all we know....

 

[Aeolusdallas]

When this comes up I usualy wonder if, give Carol's obvious career path and accomplishments, she was was ever a "lab tech".

Well she had to start as someones intern/lab assistant/TA

Not to disagree with anyone, but it is just wishful fan thinking as to pinpoint that the "little blonde lab tech" was Carol Marcus. It could have been another woman for all we know....

The simplest answer is safest. Carol is blonde and an old very serious fling of Kirks. She is also a scientist. She fits.

 

[Captain Mike]

Well she had to start as someones intern/lab assistant/TA

Not to disagree with anyone, but it is just wishful fan thinking as to pinpoint that the "little blonde lab tech" was Carol Marcus. It could have been another woman for all we know....

The simplest answer is safest. Carol is blonde and an old very serious fling of Kirks. She is also a scientist. She fits.

But yet that is your opinion, any canon reference besides "little blonde lab tech" you can use to support this theory?

 

[Aeolusdallas]

Not to disagree with anyone, but it is just wishful fan thinking as to pinpoint that the "little blonde lab tech" was Carol Marcus. It could have been another woman for all we know....

The simplest answer is safest. Carol is blonde and an old very serious fling of Kirks. She is also a scientist. She fits.

But yet that is your opinion, any canon reference besides "little blonde lab tech" you can use to support this theory?

It's the simplest theory. Occam's Razor and all that. Do you have evidence that it's not her? More importantly why are you invested in disproving it? Sure it's an assumption but one that is based on at least some evidence and it's also the popular theory.

 

[Timo]

Why should the simplest theory be the best? It doesn't apply to showbiz, like, ever.

And that's not even what Occam says at all. Occam sez that out of all possible explanations that tie together known facts, the one requiring the least additional assumptions is the most workable one ("workability" being more important for explanations than "correctness").

Deciding that Kirk's old fling is his ST2 romantic interest as well smacks of an "additional assumption", when the zero hypothesis would simply be that those are two unrelated people.

The obvious downside with making those additional assumptions is that it makes the Trek universe smaller and less realistic. Everybody knows everybody - why? How? Should every little boy ever seen be Kirk's son "just because"? Should every alien played by the same actor be a blood relative? Should the V'Ger probe be the offspring of the Borg?

Anyone care to speculate how Carol and Spock knowing each other fits into the timeline?

Spock's "Of course [I remember her]" might be a purely professional remark; the only spark of human touch there would be that Kirk jabs Spock for his infallible knowledge of completely obscure scientific undertakings. Quite possibly there's no Kirk/Spock/Marcus connection whatever, merely the three separate Kirk/Spock, Spock/Marcus and Marcus/Kirk ones.

OTOH, McCoy was always portrayed as an old friend of Kirk's, and as ST2 establishes he's also privy to Kirk's doings as a Cadet, either through having been an eyewitness himself, or through having been Kirk's drinking buddy so long that there isn't a story he wouldn't have heard. There's every indication that he would have been "around" when David Marcus was conceived, either physically or then through Kirk's stories... But it's also still possible that he never was "there", and that he has come to know about the whole sad Marcus affair some time after the fact. Perhaps he only witnessed the most recent meeting of Jim and Carol, and it was a particularly awkward moment that allows him to speculate about "old wounds" even if he isn't quite so intimately familiar with the origins of the story.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Aeolusdallas]

Except that
A Spock and possibly McCoy know Carol.
Carol was in a serious relationship with Kirk
Kirk had a serious thing for a blonde lab tech
Carol is blond and in the sciences and almost certainly would have been a lab tech at some point.
It fits. Unless you care to name another blonde scientist from Kirk's past you can nominate as "That blonde lad tech"

EDIT er Lab tech.

 

[Admiral_Young]

It's possible that Spock could have met Carol at a scientific conference. When Kirk shows Spock the Genesis footage he notes Carol on the screen "Carol Marcus" as a matter of fact. I always took that comment that Carol was a noted scientist and probably had several journals and papers published. She'd probably have to be pretty prominent in order to be in charge of a project like Genesis. A hardcore/well read scientist like Spock would have most likely would have come across her papers, it's possible that they never met but he would have been well aware of her work through scientific circles. As Spock himself would say...there are always possibilities

 

[od0_ital]

I think the answer here is obvious - Spock was David's real father.

 

[Timo]

A Spock [..] know Carol.

Which more or less rules out Carol being an Academy flame of Kirk's, because there's no indication that Spock and Kirk would have known each other (or even of each other) back then. Except in parallel universes, of course.

Carol was in a serious relationship with Kirk

Says who? Kirk fathered her child. That's basically all we know about it, besides the fact that the two kept completely out of each other's lives despite apparently not hating each other or anything.

Kirk had a serious thing for a blonde lab tech

Says who? Apparently, the lab tech was a "distraction" Cadet Mitchell aimed at Lieutenant Kirk, and always engineered to be such. Kirk may have "almost married her", but she seemed to be in on Mitchell's prank, part of his well-planned "campaign", which no doubt included a retreat at completion of the mission.

...Of course, at the point Mitchell reveals the campaign, he's already well into transforming into a god. Perhaps there never was a campaign, but Mitchell's evolving intellect allowed him to fabricate a conspiracy theory after the fact, in order to manipulate Kirk to some divine end. Even if that end was merely to see if his divine powers were up to scratch.

That's no more assumptive than claiming that Carol Marcus was an Academy flame of Kirk's, really.

And that one is suspect already. Is David Marcus twenty or thirty in the movie? (Butrick was 23.) Kirk is about fifty if it's 15 years after TOS where he was 34 some time after "Space Seed". A 23-year-old Marcus would be born too late to have been fathered by Lieutenant Kirk.

Carol is blond

See, you're making assumptions again!

It fits. Unless you care to name another blonde scientist from Kirk's past you can nominate as "That blonde lad tech".

Given Kirk's track record, he would have been seeing blonde scientists about thrice a year, with brunettes about as often, and with a distinct statistical low for scientists with jet black hair for some reason. To single out Carol Marcus as a specific one of those blondes is the part that really requires proof...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Captain Mike]

It's possible that Spock could have met Carol at a scientific conference. When Kirk shows Spock the Genesis footage he notes Carol on the screen "Carol Marcus" as a matter of fact. I always took that comment that Carol was a noted scientist and probably had several journals and papers published. She'd probably have to be pretty prominent in order to be in charge of a project like Genesis. A hardcore/well read scientist like Spock would have most likely would have come across her papers, it's possible that they never met but he would have been well aware of her work through scientific circles. As Spock himself would say...there are always possibilities

Now that is an more believable opinion that fits the realm of possibilities. I too believe that, better than I do that Carol was that cute "little blonde lab tech".
I was also under the impression that McCoy didn't know about David as well.

Carol was in a serious relationship with Kirk

Says who? Kirk fathered her child. That's basically all we know about it, besides the fact that the two kept completely out of each other's lives despite apparently not hating each other or anything.

I sensed a little bit of resentment when Carol gave her talk on "were we together? Were we going to be? You had your world, and I had mine. And I wanted him in mine!"
But at the same time she showed some empathy for Jim when she noticed how he was bothered by those remarks.

 

[Chaos Descending]

I assume that Spock met Carol Marcus around the time that Pavel Chekov met Khan Noonien Singh.

 

[UssGlenn]

Really Timo, you are really reaching here. It's much less likely that Kirk had 2 separate serious relationships with blonds who were scientists before he became captain of the Enterprise, than if they are both the same person. But we are leaving the main question of how Carol and Spock met. It is abundantly clear from the tone of voices used in the Transporter room that they have met in person and and are on friendly terms, and Kirk knows that and was probably there when they met.