For Gallifrey!!!

[QCzar]

*cleans spit off monitor*

I may be alone in this, but I have often gotten the feeling that both Davies and Moffat have an almost pathologically negative disposition towards the Time Lords. I'm not entirely certain why, though I vaguely recall reading something about RTD simply not knowing what to do with them.

In any case, the Time War quite completely eliminated them as a serious player in the nuWho era (barring some Dalek-esque plot contrivance). And I highly doubt we'll get any more background on that war since, in reality, it's just a convenient way not to have them around and reinforce the Doctor's profound loneliness. Further still, the way they paint the Time Lords leading up to End of Time Pt 2 is rather moribund and one-dimensional, leaving a rather empty feeling once they are actually revealed. The aloof, vainglorious Time Lords of oldWho seem far removed from this lot (which, in some ways, is understandable, but was poorly presented IMO).

Gallifrey will likely never be fully restored or even seen again (until, at least, this nuWho era has passed), so retrospective criticism of the actual decision to annihilate them is academic at best and best left for another thread.

That said, I have always wondered what the best way to integrate the TL's into the modern era would have been. Assuming that there was no Time War or that they could be otherwise 'Dalek'd' in, what role would or should they play? How would you bring back Gallifrey?

 

[Mr Light]

They were always portrayed as dicks and the Doctor always resented their control and interference. I actually liked how NuDoc wistfully remembers them... until the abrupt turn of face in "End of Time" where he says oh they were evil bastards in the end I just choose to remember them as they once were.

 

[Admiral_Young]

When the Time Lords reappeared briefly in "The End of Time Part I" I was excited and my mind raced with possibilities. In fact I speculated wrongly that this was RTD kind of paving the way for Moffat and that maybe he was restoring Gallifrey and the Time Lords as per Steven's request for series five and the Time Lord's would play a reoccurring role on the show. Alas was I wrong lol. I don't think that they have treated the Time Lords with any negative indifference at all. RTD seemed pretty jazzed by their appearance when he addresses them on the audio commentary for End of Time. As Mr. Light says rather correctly the Time Lords were depicted in Classic Who as being somewhat decadent and power hungry this seemed like a natural evolution and a war as intense as the Time War would affect anyone's grace pretty intensely as well. I had no problems with the way they were depicted. As for the Time War it's self...I agree that we're not going to get it addressed in an episode as it's clearly the back story and set up for New Who. Plus it's probably way too huge to really explore satisfactorily unless it is the plot for an entire series or maybe a feature film

 

[Mr Light]

My huge complaint with "The End of Time" is they get you all jazzed about the return of the Time Lords... and they don't do anything. They appear out of a portal, talk for five minutes, then get sucked back in. I was hoping to see some mayhem. :sobs:

I still hope that the Time Lords come back to some small degree yet, like five of them survive and decide to restart Glorious Gallifrey and the Doctor has to stop them or try to convince them to cool it. That way you could have one who likes the Doctor and helps him, one set against him, and the rest haughty neutrals.

 

[Admiral_Young]

I always thought it would be interesting if the ones that rejected Rassilon's proposal (including the Doctor's mom or whoever she was supposed to be) found their way out of the Time Lock somehow and returned to Earth.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I don't want Gallifrey as a society to return, but I do want to see certain individuals to return in some form. I've always held the belief that Romana took a small group with her into E-Space just prior to the destruction of Gallifrey (or rather "The Moment").

 

[Phily B]

The Master is now in the time lock, and potentially has Rassilon at his feet. Who knows what havoc he can cause? He could probably fix himself too since I assume he'd have access to Timelord technology in the time lock.

RTD left it nice and open for whoever decides to pick the plot back up.

 

[The]

I don't want Gallifrey as a society to return, but I do want to see certain individuals to return in some form. I've always held the belief that Romana took a small group with her into E-Space just prior to the destruction of Gallifrey (or rather "The Moment").

Agreed x2! President Romana III, Lady Leela, couple of her grown warrior children, couple of Gallifreyan diplomats and guards, and of course, Leela's K-9 and Romana's K-9 Mk-II...

 

[QCzar]

I second Mr Light's idea of having only a very small number of time lords skulking around (I lol'd at Glorious Gallifrey...sounds like an '80's metal band). I would also like to see at least some of the noteworthy female ones. It would be great to see a new incarnation of the Rani or Romana.

I also think it would be interesting to have other Time Lord tech floating out there, being put to use by the Doctor's enemy's (ala Doomsday). I could see a story done around the Matrix being particularly illuminating, as it would give us some flashback potential and at least the potential, through some plot device, to allow Amy/Rory/whoever to possibly gain insight into the Doctor he doesn't want them to.

As for the Time War, I'd rather remain in the dark actually. Anything they come up with is probably not going to live up to the massive build up it's gotten, so it's best to leave it up to your own imagination. See what happened with the "payoff" to the big, mysterious Ancients in SG1/A. That was just plain godawful.

 

[Bacl]

I more enjoyed the Timelords as this ancient, sleepy, academic race that would rather attend a symposium about Earth than actually go there. The idea of them chanting FOR GALLIFREY like Star Wars or Braveheart or some sick combination of the two felt very weird. I'll buy Lord President Bond had some spirit in him, but the rest of the Timelords would have needed about one hundred years of debate to decide whether or not to bring a coat with them outside.

 

[Cutter John]

I've always seen them as a bit amoral, but still basically good types. It did seem as if every time the hijacked the Tardis, or sent the Doctor on some mission it was for the best, or to right some obvious wrongdoing in the timeline.

One things for sure. After watching 'The End of Time', go back and check out 'Utopia'. It puts a slightly different face on the Doctors reaction when Martha tells him about the Prefessors watch.

I more enjoyed the Timelords as this ancient, sleepy, academic race that would rather attend a symposium about Earth than actually go there. The idea of them chanting FOR GALLIFREY like Star Wars or Braveheart or some sick combination of the two felt very weird. I'll buy Lord President Bond had some spirit in him, but the rest of the Timelords would have needed about one hundred years of debate to decide whether or not to bring a coat with them outside.

Sadly war does tend to change people. Often for the worse. I suspect most of the old sedentary Time Lords didn't survive past the first few years of the Time War. What we saw were a lot of potential Doctors.

 

[Sindatur]

When the Time Lords reappeared briefly in "The End of Time Part I" I was excited and my mind raced with possibilities. In fact I speculated wrongly that this was RTD kind of paving the way for Moffat and that maybe he was restoring Gallifrey and the Time Lords as per Steven's request for series five and the Time Lord's would play a reoccurring role on the show. Alas was I wrong lol. I don't think that they have treated the Time Lords with any negative indifference at all. RTD seemed pretty jazzed by their appearance when he addresses them on the audio commentary for End of Time. As Mr. Light says rather correctly the Time Lords were depicted in Classic Who as being somewhat decadent and power hungry this seemed like a natural evolution and a war as intense as the Time War would affect anyone's grace pretty intensely as well. I had no problems with the way they were depicted. As for the Time War it's self...I agree that we're not going to get it addressed in an episode as it's clearly the back story and set up for New Who. Plus it's probably way too huge to really explore satisfactorily unless it is the plot for an entire series or maybe a feature film

PSSSST...Anniversary Season, multiple Doctor episodes sprinkled throughout the season (But no more than 3 Doctors per episode) culminating in a climax that brings the Time Lords back, to be as Meddlesome and Manipulative as ever.

 

[QCzar]

I liked the TL's for similar reasons, Baci, not so much because they were likable but because they were part of the Doctor's reason for being the Doctor. Their higher than thou curmudgeonly nature contrasted with his mercurial flamboyance. By seeing them you understood why he rejected their ways. And lastly because, not being the "only of his kind" made him stand out more for who we was rather than what he was.

Not to imply I dislike nuWho's approach at all (the loss of Gallifrey has obviously affected the Doctor), but that's how I looked at the TL's in oldWho.

 

[The Wormhole]

I may be alone in this, but I have often gotten the feeling that both Davies and Moffat have an almost pathologically negative disposition towards the Time Lords. I'm not entirely certain why, though I vaguely recall reading something about RTD simply not knowing what to do with them.

RTD does say in The Writer's Tale that he never really cared for the Time Lords and that's why he chose to leave them out of the nu series. He was relunctant to include them in The End of Time and even when he did decide to go ahead, he found them difficult to write for. I haven't heard anything about Moffat's opinion or attitude of the Time Lords.

 

[Sci]

I may be alone in this, but I have often gotten the feeling that both Davies and Moffat have an almost pathologically negative disposition towards the Time Lords. I'm not entirely certain why, though I vaguely recall reading something about RTD simply not knowing what to do with them.

RTD does say in The Writer's Tale that he never really cared for the Time Lords and that's why he chose to leave them out of the nu series. He was relunctant to include them in The End of Time and even when he did decide to go ahead, he found them difficult to write for. I haven't heard anything about Moffat's opinion or attitude of the Time Lords.

Well ,The Writer's Tale does include a private email that RTD wrote to Moffat where he says that the problem with the Time Lords, "as you know," is that they're People In Robes or somesuch -- in essence, commiserating with Moffat over a shared opinion that the Time Lords are an inherently boring, talk-y, exposition-delivery device instead of vital characters in their own right. Moffat doesn't disagree with this opinion, at least in any of the printed emails.

 

[Cutter John]

We all can agree that the Timelords are pretty boring. Thats why they RARELY EVER APPEARED ON THE SHOW! Was there really a need to kill them off?

 

[Starkers]

I think it'd be nice if they did return, if only cos its nice to think there's someone who can hold the Doctor to account/someone he's a little bit frightened of on occasion. I wouldn't want them in it all the time, just every few seasons.

Heck you could even revert them back to their early God like status by saying those who survived the Time War did so by rejecting Rassilon's ways, and stuck to their pacifist/non interferance principles. If heck knows how many Daleks can have survived, that more than one Timelord survived makes at least as much sense.

That said the Master returning at the head of an army of evil Timelords some day has some merit!

 

[Sci]

We all can agree that the Timelords are pretty boring. Thats why they RARELY EVER APPEARED ON THE SHOW! Was there really a need to kill them off?

Yes. Because they're much more interesting dead than alive!

Dead, they're like Atlantis, a dead world once gleaming and advanced. And the Doctor is the last of the Atlanteans, casting about in a world of primitive Greeks and Egyptians and Romans.

Alive? They're just Men In Silly Hats Giving Speeches.

 

[QCzar]

We all can agree that the Timelords are pretty boring. Thats why they RARELY EVER APPEARED ON THE SHOW! Was there really a need to kill them off?

While I myself wouldn't like to see them fully restored or anything, I do agree with this. I do respect RTD's decision even if I don't agree with it, and have come to enjoy the way it's influenced the Doctor, esp. as it regards war and using violence. I also like the mystery of the Time War and look forward to seeing what other races/entities were collaterally involved.

That said, it seems a very cowardly reason to simply write them out of existence.

To me, the Time Lords are Starfleet Command/Federation Council on Star Trek. The Time Lords are the USAF/IOA on SG1/A/U. They are the FBI/US government on X-Files/Fringe, Quorum of Twelve on BSG, the Galactic Senate in Star Wars, the Watchers Council on Buffy. They're not meant to be fun or action-oriented or emotionally engaging.

They are the bureaucracy, the establishment, the bourgeoisie and that was the ENTIRE POINT of their existence in oldWho and was one of the precise reasons the Doctor rejected them. And the most they could come up with is "dudes in robes"? Did they even watch the show?

But I digress as it's Tom Bombadil and I'm less interested in seeing Gallifrey restored than seeing more time lords besides the Master.

 

[Starkers]

Timelords more interesting dead than alive? Possibly, but you could likely say the same thing about the Daleks, sometimes though its just fun to see the them.