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Stealing Trek Literature

You know, I'm going to admit to illegally downloading the movie Avatar (along with an estimated 16,000,000 other people) because I loved it so much and I was too impatient for the Blu-ray. And then I bought the Blu-ray, and I'm probably going to double dip with the set that came out around Christmas. So I didn't hurt James Cameron any, but Green Zone was also among the most illegally downloaded, and that was pretty much a flop at the box office.

I think Baen has gone about this the right way. They've made some of their older titles available for free, and their ebook sales went through the roof. I wouldn't mind seeing some titles from 5-6 years be available for free in hopes that people might be enticed to pick up newer stuff like Typhon Pact, Mirror Universe, etc.
 
I'm not expert on the subject, having never read an ebook in my life, but in terms of sheer numbers, ebooks are NOT outselling the paper copies yet.

Just a few months ago, I took advantage of the Tor computers to check the first-day sales on a new Tor book. As I recall, we had already sold a couple thousand hard copies and about 350 ebooks.

Granted, that's a huge jump over a few years ago, when even a New York Times bestseller was unlikely to sell more than a couple hundred ebooks over the course of a year. But, for all the hype over ebooks, it's worth remembering that they still represent just a tiny fraction of the market.

A few years from now, who knows? (There was a guy on NPR the other night who was predicting that ebook readers were going to be as ubiquitous as pocket calculators in a year or two.)
 
I think Baen has gone about this the right way. They've made some of their older titles available for free, and their ebook sales went through the roof. I wouldn't mind seeing some titles from 5-6 years be available for free in hopes that people might be enticed to pick up newer stuff like Typhon Pact, Mirror Universe, etc.

And because it's still early days, each publisher is experimenting with different approaches. Each will have unexpected results. Simon & Schuster organised for the first "Starfleet Corps of Engineers" eBook to be free but, in those very early days, and with me being in Australia and on a Mac (and behind a firewall on my work PC), I had no way to take up the offer. It was also presented as a ST story "never to be available in hardcopy", IIRC.

Later, Marco organised for the first "Titan" to be free as an eBook promotion.
 
Putting aside the legal and moral issues I think folks who download DRM stripped ebooks are shooting themselves in the foot. If ebook piracy becomes significant enough then more authors will just find that writing is not an economical endeavor and we the readers are the ones who will suffer the most.
 
Fantastic thread this. I've read lots of discussions on this topic over the last year but to have the authors (particularly star trek authors that I regularly read) commenting has been extremely interesting and thought provoking.

Anyway, I have personally downloaded 1 ebook from usenext (similar to torrents) and I'd like to get the authors that have commented in this thread's opinion as to whether this was wrong.

First let me say that I totally agree that downloading an ebook for free when you could pay for it is wrong. If you can't afford it (oh how i feel for the poor unfortunate rioting students mentioned by another poster that can't afford it, NOT. Get a job, most of them shouldn't be at university and the concept that everyone is entitled to is ridiculous, there are more jobs than not that don't require degrees. If everyones got degrees and expects jobs appropriate to those degrees who the hells going to do 80% of the work. Whoops. Sorry I totally digressed there ;) where was I :)

Anyway, if people can't afford something that is available to buy then I'm afraid tough titties.

On to the book that I downloaded for free and the reason for doing so.

I work away alot on new navy vessels as a civillian RADAR engineer, sometimes for 2 or 3 weeks at a time at sea. Sometimes due to proximity to land, or the prying ears of other countries vessels, my RADAR is off. This can mean that for hours or even days there is nothing for me to do but sit around reading (as the TVs don't work for S**T on these brand new shiny vessels, but I better not say too much on that or I'll get in trouble). You don't get much locker space in a 30 man mess so I could only fit a couple of dead tree books in my bag, and being a fast reader a book doesn't last me more than a day. Once the couple of books were read I would be BORED, BORED, BORED.

Along came the KINDLE and I was in heaven. 10 books loaded in before I went away and I was set. To begin with no star trek books were available on the kindle in the UK or in any other format, but I managed to get round it by purchasing from a couple of american sites that didn't check my IP address in the UK.

Theres my first question to the authors. What I did there was "illegal" but it was either that or not read them at all. I believe that depriving a UK citizen of something that a US citizen can get is bloody immoral. Should I have not read any star trek books at that time???

Anyway 6 months ago star trek books became avaiable in the UK on amazon and all was right with the world :)

However, and here I finally get on to the reason for my post as mentioned at the beginning (apologies :)), I found out a few months back that there was a follow up book to the voyage home called Probe by Margaret Wander Bonanno and published in 1992. I was ecstatic, it's probably my favourite film ever and I had to read it.

And here I found a problem. Many of the older star trek books including this one are not as far as I can tell, available anywhere in the world to buy as ebooks. I was mortified and went trawling the internet and bashing off emails to find out if they would be soon. No joy on that front and I suspect that in many cases it will be years before these books are available to buy from publishers if ever. Just not the market for them.

However all was not lost. My search of internet forums tipped me off to the availability of ebooks on file shares. And sure enough I found Probe avaiable to download on Usenext. Some kind soul had typed it all up judging by the spelling mistakes ;)

So based on my long, elaborate and boring story above, my question to the authors is this? Should the growing number of people who only read ebooks, not paper books, through choice, or necessity as is my case, be deprived of reading the millions of books out there that are not available in ebook format, and may not be for many years. I'm sure eventually every book ever written will be available in digital format but this will take at least a decade or two I imagine.

Or was it okay for some kind soul to type up or scan in a book written 20 years ago and allow me to read it on my kindle whilst bobbing around in the english channel :)

I repeat what I said at the beginning. If this or any book is available to buy in ebook format it should be bought as I have done with every other star trek book I've read so far. But if it's not available to buy it is fair game for being downloaded as the "pirate" could not possibly have downloaded it themselves, stripped out the DRM and uploaded it to the darknet in this situation as it isn't available. They have spent time and effort to type up or scan a book to make it available to other ebook fans that want their literature in a digital format. Is this really wrong???

Yes we got along fine before ebooks came along you say. BUT, we don't have to any more. For example I know for a fact that ebooks are benefitting our armed forces immensely on submarines, or those on tours in Iraq or Afghanistan where getting hold of papar books is impossible but the availability of digital content means they've always got something to read.

My point is that although the evil pirate websites are bad for spreading content that should be paid for they also provide a platform for the sharing of content that isn't available via any other means. I'm certain from your posts that you would see these sites shut down completely. I believe that is not the answer to the copyright problem.

Sorry for the long post but I've wanted to voice my observations to authors and this thread has given me the opportunity to do so, but only in this long winded way :)

Kind Regards

James
 
You don't get much locker space in a 30 man mess so I could only fit a couple of dead tree books in my bag, and being a fast reader a book doesn't last me more than a day. Once the couple of books were read I would be BORED, BORED, BORED.

Along came the KINDLE and I was in heaven. 10 books loaded in before I went away and I was set. [...]

For example I know for a fact that ebooks are benefitting our armed forces immensely on submarines, or those on tours in Iraq or Afghanistan where getting hold of papar books is impossible but the availability of digital content means they've always got something to read.

:eek: I despise e-books for their potential effect on real books, but you just made me realize they have their uses. Thanks.
 
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In the US, from a network perspective, if you watch a show via download, they're missing out on viewers, which drop ratings, which drop the price they can charge for ads, which results in a loss of profit.

With the BBC, since it's supported by license fees, and you don't live in the UK to begin with, you're not costing them money they would of had otherwise for the production AND since they publish their own DVDs, they make a direct profit when you purchase the discs later on.

Least that's the way it appears at first glance anyways...

Of course, when the BBC launches their international iPlayer in the next year or so, you'll probably be able to pay a yearly fee and get access to every BBC show the day after it airs in the UK for about 20 bucks a year.

The BBC thing is...complicated. As I understand it, the BBC sells the rights to show stuff like Doctor Who (even if it's selling to a different part of the same company) so one could argue that less viewers make that property less valuable... but unless your viewing is actually being recorded for ratings that's redundant anyway. And I'm pretty sure the BBC will make more money from you buying the DVDs.

It's even odder in the UK where we pay the license fee but at one point I'd grab stuff off the internet if I missed it on TV. I have iPlayer on my Sony TV now though which is handy. TV is an odd one though, as downloads of new shows are generally stuff that isn't available to buy whatsoever. That's changing a bit with iTunes video but it's still in it's infancy.
 
The win you've one is a pyrrhic victory.
Pyrrhic? Really? Pyrrhic? To quote William Goldman's Vizzini in The Princess Bride: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

Thanks David.

Of course you are correct. I was going for "meaningless" or "empty" victory, and although increasingly "hollow" gets you to "pyrrhic," in common parlance, clearly it remains wrong to do so.

Lazy on my part - knuckles duly rapped.

BTW, did you happen to form a view about the substantive points I made, once you got beyond this outrage to the English language and its useage that I had inflicted upon it?
 
Scott,

I applaud you for doing everything you can to combat this. However, you do realise that closure of one site means bugger all in today's world, don't you?

I don't do emoticons so will refrain from responding in kind, but I can assure you that I take absolutely no joy in characterising your response (and not just yours, but any other holder of copyright in this day and age) as foolish, because nothing - once posted to the internet is ever totally deleted. In your own case, and I'm no tech head but even I can manage to access a cached post, and to recover a site lost on first preview.

The win you've one is a pyrrhic victory. You can't win this particular war with rearguard action - it's gotta be pre-emptive, hence my point about working with TPTB, by which I mean working with TPTB BEFORE you publish.

Good grief, you are one bleak mofo, which I say good-naturedly, because I'm not exactly known for being happy-go-lucky myself! I am not naive about the scale of my victory, which is miniscule in the big picture.

But I still don't understand how you can say "I applaud you for doing everything you can to combat this" while also dismissing any significance at all to what I've done to combat this and calling me and my fellow writers foolish for fighting the thievery of our intellectual property. It's kind of like calling someone a fool for going to the doctor because we're all going to die in the end anyway. And then adding, with a condescending pat on the back, "But go ahead, have fun with your little doctor ploy."

The slipperiness of digital files and the intractibility of internet pirates is no reason for writers to roll over and submit without a fight. We are fools only if we don't acknowledge the whack-a-mole nature of this uphill battle. Sure, the avowed downloader will still find another source to steal from me, but with the miniscule effort of filling out a web form at Simon & Schuster I've forced the thieves to at least have to dig a little deeper. And maybe, just maybe, someone on the fence about the issue will fall off in the right direction.

Meanwhile, legitimate sales of e-books are on the rise, in some measures eclipsing hard copy, which shows that lots of people are embracing the new model and paying for nonphysical copies, just as the music world turned around from rampant piracy to legally buying music online. There will always be people who steal, but standing up to them and calling them out is never foolish. (Well, unless they have a gun pointed at you.)

Scott,

I actually don't know what "mofu" means, but it doesn't read well and sounds worse on the tongue, particularly with the word "bleak" prefacing it.

Given the rest of your post, I take it that you have an impression of me as being some sort of downer, depressed to some degree (perhaps overwroughtly) about the future.

Did you intend it as an insult?

Let's cut to the chase: you are offended by my use of the word "foolish."

Yes?

Otherwise, this response makes no sense. I'm agreeing with you for heaven's sake. I don't dismiss your outrage, or that of any artist.

I just happen to live in a world that is moving so fast that recognition of American copyright laws is no longer valid. I'm not celebrating it. I just recognise the reality of the internet happening around me. Don't you?

It's not a bottom up solution, it's gotta come from the top down, hence my reference to TPTB.

I've offended you here. That was not and is not my intent. For doing so, I apologise.
 
:eek: I despise e-books for their potential effect on real books, but you just made me realize they have their uses. Thanks.

"Real" books.......? The books I read on my kindle aren't "real"?

They may not require hundreds of pieces of paper to be printed on, but they sure seem "real" when I read them.

My views are pretty simple on the issue.

- If you read a book and you like it, you should always buy the book to support the author. It's common sense to support art you enjoy and benefits both you and the artists. It's the same model I've used in libraries for years and years before ebooks were what they are today. If I check a book out in the library and I like it, I go buy it, preferably in hard back as I don't care for paperbacks. If I didn't care for the book, I don't buy it. Pretty simple.

- If a book is not available to purchase because it's out of print and not being sold as an e-book and your library doesn't have it, then I have no problems with someone downloading a book if they can find it. If the publisher wants my money for that book, they should make it accessible for me to purchase.
 
I always find this a fascinating topic (I've just read through the entire thread), it comes up repeatedly in my profession too. Anyone who works in a creative industry will have at some point in time had something lifted--if it's any good :p

I write code for a living and it's a pretty even split between stuff that runs on a server (PHP) and stuff that runs in your browser (JavaScript). The JavaScript is easy for someone to rip off, click 'view source' and you're done. My attitude tends towards the thought that as long as someone isn't out-and-out selling my code I'm not gonna worry about it. Of course the key difference is that I have one customer: the end client.

Someone posted earlier about pirated stuff being easier to obtain than the legal version. This is exactly why I used to use AllofMP3.com, not to get music cheaper but because the service was better than the legitimate sources available at the time, you payed more for better quality files. iTunes sold crap sound quality files, various other sites required Microsoft software to play. I use Amazon now because they sell files that work on all of my media devices, and they don't sound like they were encoded in a kettle. I only used a dodgy site before because the legitimate alternatives were unacceptable, the moment the legitimate became worthwhile I switched.

The Microsoft DRM played a part of why avoided the legitimate places, it may be true of some those downloading books. To say that you can redownload the file is fine long as the service exists. I know my copy of Warpath could be read 100 years in the future, I'm not sure the same can be said of a legitimate ebook, ironically a pirated one in plain text is a different matter though...

One last thing... one downloaded file does not equal one lost sale.
 
Scott,

I applaud you for doing everything you can to combat this. However, you do realise that closure of one site means bugger all in today's world, don't you?

I don't do emoticons so will refrain from responding in kind, but I can assure you that I take absolutely no joy in characterising your response (and not just yours, but any other holder of copyright in this day and age) as foolish, because nothing - once posted to the internet is ever totally deleted. In your own case, and I'm no tech head but even I can manage to access a cached post, and to recover a site lost on first preview.

The win you've one is a pyrrhic victory. You can't win this particular war with rearguard action - it's gotta be pre-emptive, hence my point about working with TPTB, by which I mean working with TPTB BEFORE you publish.

Good grief, you are one bleak mofo, which I say good-naturedly, because I'm not exactly known for being happy-go-lucky myself! I am not naive about the scale of my victory, which is miniscule in the big picture.

But I still don't understand how you can say "I applaud you for doing everything you can to combat this" while also dismissing any significance at all to what I've done to combat this and calling me and my fellow writers foolish for fighting the thievery of our intellectual property. It's kind of like calling someone a fool for going to the doctor because we're all going to die in the end anyway. And then adding, with a condescending pat on the back, "But go ahead, have fun with your little doctor ploy."

The slipperiness of digital files and the intractibility of internet pirates is no reason for writers to roll over and submit without a fight. We are fools only if we don't acknowledge the whack-a-mole nature of this uphill battle. Sure, the avowed downloader will still find another source to steal from me, but with the miniscule effort of filling out a web form at Simon & Schuster I've forced the thieves to at least have to dig a little deeper. And maybe, just maybe, someone on the fence about the issue will fall off in the right direction.

Meanwhile, legitimate sales of e-books are on the rise, in some measures eclipsing hard copy, which shows that lots of people are embracing the new model and paying for nonphysical copies, just as the music world turned around from rampant piracy to legally buying music online. There will always be people who steal, but standing up to them and calling them out is never foolish. (Well, unless they have a gun pointed at you.)

Scott,

I actually don't know what "mofu" means, but it doesn't read well and sounds worse on the tongue, particularly with the word "bleak" prefacing it.

Given the rest of your post, I take it that you have an impression of me as being some sort of downer, depressed to some degree (perhaps overwroughtly) about the future.

Did you intend it as an insult?

Let's cut to the chase: you are offended by my use of the word "foolish."

Yes?

Otherwise, this response makes no sense. I'm agreeing with you for heaven's sake. I don't dismiss your outrage, or that of any artist.

I just happen to live in a world that is moving so fast that recognition of American copyright laws is no longer valid. I'm not celebrating it. I just recognise the reality of the internet happening around me. Don't you?

It's not a bottom up solution, it's gotta come from the top down, hence my reference to TPTB.

I've offended you here. That was not and is not my intent. For doing so, I apologise.
Oh, the perils of online communication where tone doesn't come across . . . I didn't intend an insult, just a little good-natured ribbing, and you haven't offended me, I just disagree a little with some of your characterizations and conclusions. No need to apologize. This thread has turned into a great debate on the topic. I agree that TPTB have to try various models to take the wind out of the pirates' sails, but I also think it behooves us writers to fire off a few cannon of our own as well!
 
Oh! What a interesting thread! Even more so because as someone already mentioned, we have authors here who are freely sharing their opinions.

A long time ago (early 90s) I was guilty of downloading books off of usenet, mainly a lot of star trek. Geeks after all were pretty much the only people capable of using usenet at the time and of course geeks LOVE Star Trek. But I digress. Anyway, it was mostly a novelty thing at the time and I did not consider what I was really doing. I also do not know if there really was ebook stores at the time anyway. I think most were scanned and OCR'd. Who knows. Even further, many times I still owned the paperback version for when I did not want to read on a computer screen. Like I said, mostly it was a novelty. Since that time I have purchased many of them since the format was usually text and riddled with problems.

But the last 10+ years I have purchased my ebooks from legitimate sources. I do this because I now realize that peoples livelihood are supported by my purchases and also the fact that if they make money writing a genre I love then they will do it more. The only thing I am guilty of is that I sometimes remove the DRM from the files. I have saved myself from having to repurchase many books that I legitimately purchased for Microsoft Reader and now have on my Kindle. My opinion is that I should not have to repurchase the same book just because my technology platform changes or is updated.

Just thought I would chime in with my 2 cents.
 
Agreed, Smitty

If you buy an ebook, you should have free and unfettered access to that ebook on any e-reader platform.

End of Line.

Platform Wars shouldn't ever be based around content, but rather features of the hardware. Limiting the content based on format just kills the viability for growth in the e-market. One of the reasons epub is fast becoming a format of choice for many.
 
Agreed, Smitty

Platform Wars shouldn't ever be based around content, but rather features of the hardware. Limiting the content based on format just kills the viability for growth in the e-market. One of the reasons epub is fast becoming a format of choice for many.

I do not think ePub solves the problem. Isnt the ePub file DRM'd to a unique identifier of a device? Otherwise I could move the ePub file to a different device (or distribute on the net) and be able to open it.
 
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