Fate of the clones post ROTS?

[Gotham Central]

I've been watching quite q bit of The Clone Wars animated series while I've been on vacation. One thing that I've noticed is that they've gone out of their way to humanize the clones and show that they are much more than simply disposable organic droids. They are in effect a new species with a home world on Kamino. They are also individuals with unique personalities.

So I'm wondering if their fate has ever been spelled out in any of the EU materials. There is nothing to suggest that imperial stormtroopers were clones (though no one seemed toncare if they were killed). Many of the early EU books seemed to suggest that the clones were no longer around. So iA'm wondering if at some point the clones are themselves purged.

 

[Whofan]

According to the EU, initially the Empire starts to make clones out of non-Jango stock, as well as regular recruits who are trained at Imperial Academies (Similar to the one Luke was talking about in ANH). There's also a rebel uprising on Kamino according to one of the Battlefront games, and that severely limits the Jango clone stock with the exception of some of the more elite units, such as the 501st.


In the Thrawn trilogy, Thrawn uses Clone troopers, but they are different from the Kamino/ Jango clones, as they are grown far faster using a different technique (Cloning seems fairly commonplace in the SW galaxy, dialogue in AOTC seems to indicate that the Kaminoans don't have a monopoly).

 

[Nowhere Man]

I rhought the Stormtroopers were the clones?

 

[JediKnightButler]

As for the immediate post-ROTS fate, there are some nondescript clones featured in the Dark Lord novel that refuse to obey Order 66 and aid in the escape of some Jedi. There are some mentions of Kaminoans and appearance of Taun-We and another PT-era clone that Fett comes into contact with in the LOTF series while trying to find a cure to a degenerative clone-related disorder but in the larger sense, there's no real follow-up, on what happened to many of the clones and nothing about any of the specific clones we've seen so far in the Clone Wars series. Seems like a gap that somebody needs to fill.

 

[Mr Light]

They continued to serve as Stormtroopers, but eventually were largely replaced by human recruits.

 

[Caliburn24]

How many clones were there? A million?

In a galaxy as densely populated as SW that is a drop in the bucket. We shouldn't see or hear from them again.

Most of them retired to Elysium, a planet that Palpatine set aside as the designated Clone Retirement Home. This planet was later destroyed by Chewbacca's sister's nephew Frobacca when he captured an Imperial super weapon while backpacking during the summer of his freshman year of college.

 

[Mr Light]

^^
Source???????

 

[PsychoPere]

It was a combination of what Whofan and Mr Light said. In the Republic Commando novels, for example, a small group of clones embrace their Mandalorian heritage and set up an underground system for "post-war retirement" (i.e., desertion and a safe haven) for clones on Mandalore. These commandos were sent on various high-level classified missions that led them to believe the war was being fought in a manner that couldn't be won and they were seeing disturbing signs that the truth about the war wasn't being told. Near the end of the war, they also discovered that new clones were being created on one of Coruscant's moons, using the Spaarti technology that would later be the basis for Thrawn's clones, in final preparations for Order 66. Due to the advanced aging used to bring the clones to combat readiness, most clones who survived the war only had a small amount of years left to them, though at least one of the Republic Commando clones was still alive during the Legacy of the Force series.

 

[Nowhere Man]

They continued to serve as Stormtroopers, but eventually were largely replaced by human recruits.

That's what I was thinking, if that is the case then we are left with the question from "Clerks." Are the people who are joining Empirial Forces evil? Do the Death Star construction workers know what they are getting into? Are the Stormtroopers sorta like asshole cops who get off on treating people like shit? I mean what kind of person would knowingly sign up to work for the evil Empire.

 

[Gojirob]

Not everyone thought they were evil. At first, it seemed like the Empire ended the wars. However, I will say that like as not, those who found their way aboard the DS were more in Palps' mold than your average Imperial. I know some say 'Luke killed all these non-evil dudes just doing their job'. But like in the series my avatar comes from, you work in a place that grinds up people's lives like that, you're probably a POS yourself. I doubt Palps, Vader or Tarkin would want the unwilling anywhere near their big toy--too much room for stupid heroism. They would want Space Nazis, guys who would throw the switch on the super-laser with no qualms.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Lucas discusses the evolution of the Clones into Stormtroopers at some length in one of the film commentaries. I'm not sure which movie now. I believe that he essentially says that originally the Stormtroopers continued to be clones of Jango but then the Empire began to recruit regular soldiers and train people at the Academy. I'm kind of paraphrasing what he said but it was similar to that. He also stated that when Jango bumps his head in AOTC like the Stormtrooper does in Empire Strikes Back that was meant to be some kind of genetic default in the cloning matrix lol.

 

[lennier1]

He also stated that when Jango bumps his head in AOTC like the Stormtrooper does in Empire Strikes Back that was meant to be some kind of genetic default in the cloning matrix lol.

Like being unable to hit the side of a barn at 5 ft distance?

 

[JediKnightButler]

Not everyone thought they were evil. At first, it seemed like the Empire ended the wars. However, I will say that like as not, those who found their way aboard the DS were more in Palps' mold than your average Imperial. I know some say 'Luke killed all these non-evil dudes just doing their job'. But like in the series my avatar comes from, you work in a place that grinds up people's lives like that, you're probably a POS yourself. I doubt Palps, Vader or Tarkin would want the unwilling anywhere near their big toy--too much room for stupid heroism. They would want Space Nazis, guys who would throw the switch on the super-laser with no qualms.

Steve Perry's "Death Star" novel undercuts that argument a LOT by introducing us to several unconventional Imperials aboard the Death Star whom ultimately choose to rebel against the Empire- a former Clone Wars-era medic overseeing the *interrogation* of Leia, a Stormtrooper (with force-sensitivity) leading the pursuit of Han, et. al during their escape, and even one of the gunners operating the superlaser who supposedly purposely hesitates a moment ("standby") at the end of the Battle of Yavin in order to allow the rebels to blow up the Death Star.

 

[PsychoPere]

He also stated that when Jango bumps his head in AOTC like the Stormtrooper does in Empire Strikes Back that was meant to be some kind of genetic default in the cloning matrix lol.

Like being unable to hit the side of a barn at 5 ft distance?

Ah, but those were the recruits and the non-Jango clones. Just look at how well the clonetroopers of the Grand Army of the Republic performed compared to the Imperial stormtroopers.

 

[David cgc]

Maybe that explains why Obi-Wan had such an inflated opinion of them. He'd only ever dealt with the clones in combat, so he assumed all of the new stormtroopers would be "so precise."

 

[JediKnightButler]

Playing devil's advocate for a second, we only really get to see a handful of scenes in the movies where the Rebels are battling Stormtroopers in armed combat and, frankly, they seemed to perform pretty well in most of them though in none of those scenes did we see the hordes of them that we're used to seeing in the Clone Wars series. Let's look at the record for a minute:
They mercilessly overwhelmed and killed the crew of the Tantive IV at the beginning of ANH, destroyed a Jawa Sandcrawler (off-screen), murdered Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru (off-screen), destroyed the shield generator and killed lots of Rebel pilots and ground troops on Hoth while piloting Walkers (ESB), they successfully stormed Echo Base once the shield generator had been destroyed, they helped capture Han, Leia, Chewbacca, et. al along with Vader and Fett on Bespin, and, of course, Imperial troops apprehended (albeit briefly) Han, Leia, and the rest of their strike force on Endor in ROTJ.
Of course, Han, Leia, Luke, et. al did manage to evade the stormtroopers at Mos Eisley and at the Death Star but had to use a lot of tricks and other methods (sneaking into the detention area, swinging across chasms, hiding behind blast doors) to successfully evade them. There is also some suggestion made by Steve Perry's "Death Star" novel that the Empire was "compromised" by some traitors in their midst that enabled Han, Luke, Leia, et. al to escape. The Rebels did manage to escape from them on Cloud City but they did have some assistance from Lando's security officers in their escape. Plus, they were only dealing with a limited number of Stormtroopers (fighting in an unfamiliar location BTW). As far as ROTJ is concerned, the Imperial troops WERE eventually defeated but it was only through the combined efforts of the Rebels AND the Ewoks. It wasn't like the Ewoks defeated them singlehandedly and the Empire didn't/wasn't able to provide any backup for their limited number of troops there. Had they not been occupied fighting the Rebels in space, the Star Destroyers could have simply burned the planet to a crisp like they did several times to Kashykk and/or dispatched more troops to overwhelm the Rebels and Ewoks at the shield generator. Furthermore, the Emperor was convinced that he would win no matter what and was more preoccupied with the unfolding melodrama between himself, Vader, and Luke.
I guess we'll never know for sure whether or not the PT-era clones would've performed better/differently than OT-era soldiers but, simply based on what we see or know of in regards to the Stormtroopers it's not clear to me that they're all just a bunch of incompetent buffoons.

 

[lennier1]

Maybe that explains why Obi-Wan had such an inflated opinion of them. He'd only ever dealt with the clones in combat, so he assumed all of the new stormtroopers would be "so precise."

Actually seems quite like the Empire. Throw enough cannon fodder at a problem and one of them is bound to hit the enemy by accident. Maybe the galaxy far far away also has a problem with people getting more stupid every year thanks to reality TV and the like?

Playing devil's advocate for a second, we only really get to see a handful of scenes in the movies where the Rebels are battling Stormtroopers in armed combat and, frankly, they seemed to perform pretty well in most of them though in none of those scenes did we see the hordes of them that we're used to seeing in the Clone Wars series. Let's look at the record for a minute:
They mercilessly overwhelmed and killed the crew of the Tantive IV at the beginning of ANH, destroyed a Jawa Sandcrawler (off-screen), murdered Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru (off-screen), destroyed the shield generator and killed lots of Rebel pilots and ground troops on Hoth while piloting Walkers (ESB), they successfully stormed Echo Base once the shield generator had been destroyed, they helped capture Han, Leia, Chewbacca, et. al along with Vader and Fett on Bespin, and, of course, Imperial troops apprehended (albeit briefly) Han, Leia, and the rest of their strike force on Endor in ROTJ.
Of course, Han, Leia, Luke, et. al did manage to evade the stormtroopers at Mos Eisley and at the Death Star but had to use a lot of tricks and other methods (sneaking into the detention area, swinging across chasms, hiding behind blast doors) to successfully evade them. There is also some suggestion made by Steve Perry's "Death Star" novel that the Empire was "compromised" by some traitors in their midst that enabled Han, Luke, Leia, et. al to escape. The Rebels did manage to escape from them on Cloud City but they did have some assistance from Lando's security officers in their escape. Plus, they were only dealing with a limited number of Stormtroopers (fighting in an unfamiliar location BTW). As far as ROTJ is concerned, the Imperial troops WERE eventually defeated but it was only through the combined efforts of the Rebels AND the Ewoks. It wasn't like the Ewoks defeated them singlehandedly and the Empire didn't/wasn't able to provide any backup for their limited number of troops there. Had they not been occupied fighting the Rebels in space, the Star Destroyers could have simply burned the planet to a crisp like they did several times to Kashykk and/or dispatched more troops to overwhelm the Rebels and Ewoks at the shield generator. Furthermore, the Emperor was convinced that he would win no matter what and was more preoccupied with the unfolding melodrama between himself, Vader, and Luke.
I guess we'll never know for sure whether or not the PT-era clones would've performed better/differently than OT-era soldiers but, simply based on what we see or know of in regards to the Stormtroopers it's not clear to me that they're all just a bunch of incompetent buffoons.

TL : DR

 

[DigificWriter]

As per G-Level canon (the highest level of SW canon, which encompasses the movies, both Clone Wars television series, official novelizations, official statements from George, and other assorted things associated with the SW films and the Clone Wars TV series), the Stormtrooper Corps were the natural evolution of the Clone Troopers; the EU has expanded and extrapolated on this basic idea/premise, revealing that, as years passed, the Corps' stock of cloned troopers was augmented by regular human recruits.

 

[Admiral_Young]

^ This is basically what I was trying to say in my post paraphrasing what I heard Lucas say in the audio commentary which I now remember being in from AOTC.

 

[Set Harth]

As per G-Level canon (the highest level of SW canon, which encompasses the movies, both Clone Wars television series, official novelizations, official statements from George, and other assorted things associated with the SW films and the Clone Wars TV series)

Is there a relatively current official source which establishes that the novelizations are G-canon?

I know that there are quotes on wikipedia to that effect, but certain so-called "Holocron adherents" allege that those quotes predate the creation of the Holocron and are thus somehow invalid. ( I don't share this belief, which seems to be a glorified attempt to deify a certain poster's personal bias against the novelizations. )