Offended by Christmas???
- Thread starter Warped9
- Start date
Has anyone actually called you a child abuser?
^
Not directly no... not yet. But I can see where this is going... people who are adamantly against spanking children often see it as a form of child abuse, and when the charge was made that I "approved of hitting children", that is the same as implying I endorse child abuse, which is different, and I would never endorse. So I just want to make it known that I'm not gonna fall into that trap. I agree with spanking as a form of discipline. I am vehemently against child abuse.
Not directly no... not yet. But I can see where this is going... people who are adamantly against spanking children often see it as a form of child abuse, and when the charge was made that I "approved of hitting children", that is the same as implying I endorse child abuse, which is different, and I would never endorse. So I just want to make it known that I'm not gonna fall into that trap. I agree with spanking as a form of discipline. I am vehemently against child abuse.
That was what I was wondering. I don't anyone here has said anything remotely like that.
Most people I know who are against spanking do not accuse anyone who simply spanks a child as being a child abuser. Most of time the reason they don't approve of spanking is because they know there are much better ways of disciplining a child. Even myself, who most against spanking children, concede that if a small child (i.e. one too young to be reasoned with) does something dangerous than spanking the child is usually the best deterrent.
And that is your opinion, and you have every right to it, and to express it, and I fully support that.
Yes... someone implied that since I agreed with Ben's comments, that "I agree with hitting children". I don't, and I'm not gonna stand for that accusation, so I'm clarifying my position.
Stop making assumptions.
Spanking is hitting, though, and there are those who think any kind of hitting is child abuse, ergo people who spank are child abusers. You don't have to agree with that train of thought but it's a perfectly valid opinion.
^
That's exactly the entire point I was making... that BECAUSE of that view, some might see me as a child abuser, which I am not. In any case, I have said my bit, and won't drag this on any further, and risk getting in trouble, lol.
That's exactly the entire point I was making... that BECAUSE of that view, some might see me as a child abuser, which I am not. In any case, I have said my bit, and won't drag this on any further, and risk getting in trouble, lol.
My opinion is and has been that punishment should correspond to the thing it is meant to deter in type. For instance, I would never have spanked one of my kids for something they said to someone else - I found another punishment, like grounding, if I thought it was warranted. But if I stopped them from doing something that would cause physical pain or damage to themselves or others - like hitting someone else, or putting their hand in a fire - then absolutely they got a spanking.
My kids are 17 and 13 - well-mannered, happy, intelligent mostly-adults who don't fear me or think I'm an abuser, and who will probably try to raise their kids, if any, the same way. You may be offended, but I call that a success.
My kids are 17 and 13 - well-mannered, happy, intelligent mostly-adults who don't fear me or think I'm an abuser, and who will probably try to raise their kids, if any, the same way. You may be offended, but I call that a success.
A spank is certainly not the only form of discipline, but it is a valid alternative. I think BolianAuthor and I on the same page in that a person who employs the occasional spank is NOT a child abuser. They're entirely two different things and those are believe they are the same may be entitled to their opinion, but it's an uniformed one.
I know a lot of kids today that are good kids yet I've also seen a good share that could stand a little discipline to teach them that they aren't the be all and end all of creation.
Sometimes reasoning doesn't cut it. Sometimes a firm tone or raised voice doesn't cut. Sometimes a swat is the thing that finally gets their attention.
Was I spanked as a child? Yes, but I must say it was also done sparingly. I usually got the message when I heard a particular tone in my parents' voice or when other methods didn't register. And I also know that my mother or father never relished having to resort to a spank.
...Now where were we before? Oh, yeah, corporate America's attempts to marginalize Christmas or something along those lines.
I know a lot of kids today that are good kids yet I've also seen a good share that could stand a little discipline to teach them that they aren't the be all and end all of creation.
Sometimes reasoning doesn't cut it. Sometimes a firm tone or raised voice doesn't cut. Sometimes a swat is the thing that finally gets their attention.
Was I spanked as a child? Yes, but I must say it was also done sparingly. I usually got the message when I heard a particular tone in my parents' voice or when other methods didn't register. And I also know that my mother or father never relished having to resort to a spank.
...Now where were we before? Oh, yeah, corporate America's attempts to marginalize Christmas or something along those lines.
No one said it was like "unrestrained child abuse," they said it was "hitting." Much like the alleged attack on/decline of Christmas that this topic was about before you went on a tangent parade, you're seeing things that aren't there.
No, his real essential point is that every conceivable wrong in the world can be laid at the feet of not spanking our children and not requiring prayer in school. And when I say every conceivable wrong, I mean he included murder, kidnapping, robbery, school shootings, and terrorism. Because if there's one defining characteristic of terrorists, it's that they don't get enough prayer time.
And yet, the national crime rate is lower than it's been since Wally and the Beav were on the air. If children of the previous and current generation were/are so undisciplined, why is that?
Before you start summoning the wisdom of the elders and assuming they'd be on your side, maybe you should ask someone from the Depression-era what they think about a grown man whining because he only got one day off at Christmastime instead of two in a row while working retail. They'd probably slap you upside the head and regale you with stories of their youthful struggles walking through snow without shoes 10 miles to get to work on Christmas for sixty cents a day and no overtime and benefits, and how they were grateful for that because at least they had a job.
As far as "the kids these days," I always like to break this one out for those occasions:
"Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers."
— Socrates
Somehow civilization has managed to survive all this time despite the declining quality of each succeeding generation. It's remarkable, really.
Oh, please, don't be a drama queen again. I said you agreed with him on hitting children and it is clear from the rest of your posts that you do. But that's a side issue to all of this and you have not yet addressed that fact that the article is hateful and inaccurate yet you apparently agree with everything in it.
It is hateful to YOU, apparently. I have no problem with it, as I have stated more than once, but yet, you seem unable to comprehend or accept that fact. That's not my dilemma.
Already done and done. I've spoken with many folks older than me and most of them agreed with what I have said. Previous generations fought for much of what we've come to enjoy and are now living to see many of the things they had gained rolled back or eroded away for the sake of just another buck.
Did you read Locutus' analysis of it? Or do you need me to do it, too? Because if you read it again there's an awful lot of lies, bullshit and bizarre analogies.
You've already spoken with "many older folks" about having to work on Boxing Day two days ago? I guess you had a lot of free time on your hands yesterday.
You're pretty good at fielding the softball questions and jokes like the one above, but every time I seriously challenge a point of yours you just skip it and continue on making the same argument as if it wasn't just completely contradicted. I'm not post-1979 Trek, so it's okay if you actually address my points instead of just pretending they don't exist.
So you're cool with exploiting the kidnapping for robbery, torture, mutilation, and murder of a woman, her son, and her granddaughter in order to make a point about prayer in schools? You're cool with blaming the suicide of the schizophrenic grandson of Dr. Spock on him advocating for not spanking children? You're cool with blaming terrorism and school shootings on a lack of school prayer? You're cool with forcing schoolchildren to pray even if they don't believe in the dominant religion or don't want to pray?
Now don't come crying to me about how I'm misrepresenting your argument. You've had several chances now to read the entire article and either have refused to do so or "have no problem with it." Make up your damn mind.
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^^ Unless you really are that thick I'm talking about the fact that this isn't at all a new issue and that I've spoken with many people over the years about it.
I've stated my opinion. Some see it and some don't and some others don't want to see it but would just rather attack it.
Unless you really are that thick I'm talking about the fact that this isn't at all a new issue and that I've spoken with many people over the years about it.I've stated my opinion. Some see it and some don't and some others don't want to see it but would just rather attack it.
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So, you've been dealing with this "issue" for years and haven't done anything about it? You haven't traded days with anyone or asked them to cover for you? You haven't told your boss that you always have to work this time of year so it would only be fair that you get some more time off? You haven't built up seniority over other employees? You haven't tried for a promotion to a higher level position where you can get more say in scheduling? You haven't tried to get a more flexible job?
At what point does this stop being the fault of society for not venerating the Christmas holiday (or really, the day after Christmas) to your satisfaction and becomes your fault for not taking any initiative to change these ongoing holiday problems of yours?
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