Offended by Christmas???

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Are we sure that Ben Stein actually wrote that? Look at this portion of the Snopes article. You'll notice that some of the exact text that Stein supposedly wrote is actually from a much earlier source:

The following snippet harvested from a 2002 embellishment of the 2001 remarks on the September 11 tragedy offered by the daughter of evangelist Billy Graham provides an example of the context in which this rumor is often promulgated:

Then, Dr Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide) and we said, an expert should know what he's talking about so we said OK.

So either that whole piece quoted in this thread is an urban legend itself and was not actually written by Stein at all, or he was quoting someone else when he wrote it. FWIW.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

^ The impression I got was that Stein was quoting that other piece in the middle of his own article. I have no idea whether he actually said it on the CBS show in 2005 since I'm not a fan of Stein's and don't pay him much mind unless someone comes and posts it in my forum. Regardless, the onus was on Sector 7 to confirm its validity before posting it.

In some posts we have Moderators asking for jokes.
Most jokes are welcomed.
Except one.
THE ONE has been attacked for his joke.
Get over yourselves and stop being hypocritical.
"C'mon people we need jokes. Except yours... you're a monster for giving us a joke."
Hypocrisy seems to be rampant in this thread.

As usual, I have no clue what the hell you're talking about. None of my posts you quoted above have me asking for jokes, they're all in response to BolianAdmiral. In order for there to be hypocrisy, you actually have to do something contradictory.

That being said, I have no problem whatsoever with people making jokes in this thread or elsewhere. However, his was not funny and was intended to be offensive. I'm sure in your world all jokes are equal whether they're bigoted or as innocent as a chicken crossing the road, but for the rest of the world words have meaning.

 

[sidious618]

^

Doesn't change the fact that I agree with everything Ben said.

You agree that Dr Spock's son committed suicide? That our children have no conscience?

He also apparently agrees we should be hitting our children more. I don't know how anyone could read that article and say, "Yes, that's all sensible."

 

[Marie1]

I'm kinda derailing this thread (and hopefully will be able to find it again later... >.<)

I don't celebrate Christmas for a variety of reasons- if someone wishes me a happy one, I might say "thanks, hope you have a nice day" or something. Some people kinda look at me as if they want me to say more, but... I think that's enough? I don't launch into a diatribe about my issues with it... I mostly want to leave busy stores!

 

[Locutus of Bored]

I'm kinda derailing this thread...

I don't even think that's even possible any more. It's like Grand Central Station on crack up in here. Your comment addresses the OPs post fine, and he was the first to derail the thread anyway.

 

[sidious618]

I, for one, am strongly opposed to April Fool's Day. Why do we have to work on that day? We should be out doing tricks, not helping the capitalist fat cats.

 

[BolianAuthor]

^

Doesn't change the fact that I agree with everything Ben said.

You agree that Dr Spock's son committed suicide? That our children have no conscience?

He also apparently agrees we should be hitting our children more. I don't know how anyone could read that article and say, "Yes, that's all sensible."

Please feel free to continue to state what I think, since you obviously know me so well... I find it quite amusing.

I also find it amusing that just because I disagree with your particular point of view, that you feel some childish need to lash out against me, and attack that differing point of view. It really does speak volumes about how "tolerant" you are.

I posted that I agree with Ben's viewpoint, and you obviously disagree with it. Fair be it, and let us leave it at that... that we both have different ways of looking at things.

Dr. Spock's son's suicide was a factual error, I'll grant you that. But I agree with everything else Ben said. And that's just my own opinion, and I'm entitled to it, as well as entitled to express it, just as you are yours.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

You agree that Dr Spock's son committed suicide? That our children have no conscience?

He also apparently agrees we should be hitting our children more. I don't know how anyone could read that article and say, "Yes, that's all sensible."

Please feel free to continue to state what I think, since you obviously know me so well... I find it quite amusing.

I also find it amusing that just because I disagree with your particular point of view, that you feel some childish need to lash out against me, and attack that differing point of view. It really does speak volumes about how "tolerant" you are.

I posted that I agree with Ben's viewpoint, and you obviously disagree with it. Fair be it, and let us leave it at that... that we both have different ways of looking at things.

Dr. Spock's son's suicide was a factual error, I'll grant you that. But I agree with everything else Ben said. And that's just my own opinion, and I'm entitled to it, as well as entitled to express it, just as you are yours.

If you agree with everything else he says in the article than you agree we should be hitting our children more, because that's something implied by the article. It's not lashing out, it's a simple accounting of the facts. If you don't think we should be hitting our kids more, than that's two things in the article you disagree with. Don't get all wounded because he simply read and comprehended what you said.

Personally, you should probably revise your comment a little more since that article is hateful, full of lies and faulty logic, and gleefully exploits multiple homicide and suicide motivated by mental illness to somehow try and stake a claim to the moral high ground. It's disgusting. Why would you want to jump on that bandwagon?

 

[RJDiogenes]

My favorite part was how children who haven't been indoctrinated into his religion have no conscience. Apparently Ben Stein has never visited the planet Earth.

 

[iguana_tonante]

The following was written by Ben Stein and recited by him on CBS Sunday Morning Commentary.

My confession:(cut)

We could all learn much from this. I don't normally agree with Ben Stein, but he is right about this.

There is so much stuff in it that is wrong, false, hypocritical and downright cruel that I just don't know where to start. Beside, Locutus already did it and it was spot on.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

My favorite part was how children who haven't been indoctrinated into his religion have no conscience. Apparently Ben Stein has never visited the planet Earth.

I had to quit responding to it by the time I got to that point because my post was too long as it is. Needless to say my disgust for the content of that article seems to have come through loud and clear.

It must be a frightening state of mind to live in if you think that at any given moment every little Timmy and Sally in the world are conscienceless killing machines plotting your death.

 

[Amaris]

From now on, I'm outsourcing all my arguments to Locutus. He's cheaper, does a bang-up job, and can save me a lot of time so I can get back to work on my Latin to English translator monkey project.

 

[Warped9]

I always love the way some automatically equate an occasional swat on the rump with whaling away on kids. No sane person would advocate physical abuse of a child yet an occasional swat on the rump after all other methods or words or warning have fallen on deaf little ears is most certainly NOT unrestrained physical abuse.

The real essential point of what Stein may or may not have said is that many parents today try to be friends first and parents second with kids. Many (certainly not all) kids today have next to no discipline whatsoever and next to no boundaries. They can learn to respect nothing but their own selfish wants and whims.

The real key difference between many (certainly not all) kids is that parents cater to nearly all their whiny little whims. "Oh, sweetie, you don't like that. Then what would you like to eat, dear?" rather than "That's what's for dinner. Eat it or don't and go hungry. When you're making dinner then you can eat whatever you want."

Many of us didn't like being told "no" by our parents, but what we didn't realize was that by telling us "no" every so often we were also learning to tell ourselves "no" for when we got older. We learned that there were often other considerations besides what we wanted and wanting it immediately.

Our parents and our grandparents generations got blamed for tons of shit yet now we're seeing the rooster coming home to roost: our parents and grandparents weren't as stupid and ill-informed as many have made them out to be. Indeed while they may certainly not be as technically savvy as the up-and-coming generation it seems to me they were a damned sight smarter in terms of the realities of life.

 

[Marie1]

I'm kinda derailing this thread...

I don't even think that's even possible any more. It's like Grand Central Station on crack up in here. Your comment addresses the OPs post fine, and he was the first to derail the thread anyway.

Oh good! Cuz I'm really curious....

 

[Colonel Green]

I always love the way some automatically equate an occasional swat on the rump with whaling away on kids. No sane person would advocate physical abuse of a child yet an occasional swat on the rump after all other methods or words or warning have fallen on deaf little ears is most certainly NOT unrestrained physical abuse.

The real essential point of what Stein may or may not have said is that many parents today try to be friends first and parents second with kids. Many (certainly not all) kids today have next to no discipline whatsoever and next to no boundaries. They can learn to respect nothing but their own selfish wants and whims.

The real key difference between many (certainly not all) kids is that parents cater to nearly all their whiny little whims. "Oh, sweetie, you don't like that. Then what would you like to eat, dear?" rather than "That's what's for dinner. Eat it or don't and go hungry. When you're making dinner then you can eat whatever you want."

Many of us didn't like being told "no" by our parents, but what we didn't realize was that by telling us "no" every so often we were also learning to tell ourselves "no" for when we got older. We learned that there were often other considerations besides what we wanted and wanting it immediately.

Our parents and our grandparents generations got blamed for tons of shit yet now we're seeing the rooster coming home to roost: our parents and grandparents weren't as stupid and ill-informed as many have made them out to be. Indeed while they may certainly not be as technically savvy as the up-and-coming generation it seems to me they were a damned sight smarter in terms of the realities of life.

What exactly does that rant have to do with Dr Spock? It's pretty clear that you (like Stein and most of Spock's critics) have never actually cracked one of his books.

 

[BolianAuthor]

^

It means that just because some parents agree with spanking their kids as a means of discipline, doesn't mean that they are child abusers and ought be locked up, which is what I agree with in Ben's comments. A parent who spanks their child when they do something wrong isn't the same as some arsehole who beats the living shit out of a kid because they choose to intentionally abuse the kid. I agree with spanking, but not abuse. But since very few here can make that differentiation, I don't waste my time elaborating on it.

 

[Miss Chicken]

The real essential point of what Stein may or may not have said is that many parents today try to be friends first and parents second with kids. Many (certainly not all) kids today have next to no discipline whatsoever and next to no boundaries. They can learn to respect nothing but their own selfish wants and whims.

A few remarks on this statement

a) One can easily discipline children without resorting to spanking.

b) There were many kids around 20, 30, 40, or 50 years OK that had next to no discipline. It isn't a new phenomena.

c) The vast majority of children I see today are well behaved.

d) Dr Spock's book was first published in 1946 so, if it caused children to be undisciplined than the undisciplined children should have been around in the 1950s just as much as today.

 

[BolianAuthor]

^

That's all fine and well, Miss Chicken, but the fact remains that this is my viewpoint, and that is yours, but I'll be damned if I'm gonna let people who don't even know me brand me as a fucking child abuser because I agree with spanking. Fuck that. Like I said before, if you disagree with my POV, hey, that's fine, more power to you... but I have just as much a right to my views as you have yours, and I ought not be afraid to voice them without being branded a fucking criminal. So, as I have said so often in posts lately... let us just agree that we disagree, and leave it at that.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

^

That's all fine and well, Miss Chicken, but the fact remains that this is my viewpoint, and that is yours, but I'll be damned if I'm gonna let people who don't even know me brand me as a fucking child abuser because I agree with spanking. Fuck that. Like I said before, if you disagree with my POV, hey, that's fine, more power to you... but I have just as much a right to my views as you have yours, and I ought not be afraid to voice them without being branded a fucking criminal. So, as I have said so often in posts lately... let us just agree that we disagree, and leave it at that.

You know, people would probably be more civil to you if you didn't nail yourself to a cross every time someone disagrees with you. It's a disagreement on the Internet, dude. It's not worth getting so worked up over.

 

[BolianAuthor]

I don't nail myself to anything... I only state my view and defend it. And people who would equate spanking with child abuse would thus see me as a child abuser, and that's a pretty serious label to pin on someone, so I'm just lettin' it be known that I'm not gonna stand for it, if some try to go that route.