British space exploration in the Whoniverse
- Thread starter EJA
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The Sixth Doctor story Attack of the Cybermen, made and set in 1985, refers to the events of The Tenth Planet as happening next year. Despite the differences in history and technology, the writers still thought of the earlier story as part of then-current Whoniverse history.
If you're going to say that stories like The Tenth Planet, Ambassadors of Death, and The Android Invasion didn't happen in current Whoniverse history, then you might as well say that all of Classic Who never happened.
Oh yes, and I believe there's a subtle reference to the events of Android Invasion in the Sarah Jane Adventures pilot, where the village the story was set in is mentioned in an old newspaper article Sarah Jane has in her attic.
If you're going to say that stories like The Tenth Planet, Ambassadors of Death, and The Android Invasion didn't happen in current Whoniverse history, then you might as well say that all of Classic Who never happened.
Oh yes, and I believe there's a subtle reference to the events of Android Invasion in the Sarah Jane Adventures pilot, where the village the story was set in is mentioned in an old newspaper article Sarah Jane has in her attic.
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Had a little look at the novel Apollo 23 while I was out today. There's a reference to M3 Variant fuel from Ambassadors of Death, though interestingly, the dialogue states it was used in British Rocket Group's aborted Mars Probe Missions (Doesn't provide a date for said missions), implying they never got off the ground. There's also lots of info about the large number of clandestine spaceflights throughout the 70s and 80s (The incident with the space freighter in The Android Invasion must've been public knowledge though, as Sarah Jane wrote an article about it). I'm not sure how relevant this novel is now, as I have an idea a lot of its plot might have been contradicted by SJA Death of the Doctor, which mentioned UNIT having a moonbase.
I was thinking of something more akin to the erasure of Rory from history in Series Five -- events involving him still happened, and frankly some of those events don't make sense without him, but no one remembers him. A collection of effects that have no cause.
I don't have a problem with that.
I was thinking of something more akin to the erasure of Rory from history in Series Five -- events involving him still happened, and frankly some of those events don't make sense without him, but no one remembers him. A collection of effects that have no cause.
I don't have a problem with that.
Somehow, I didn't think you would. Is nothing sacred these days?
I was thinking of something more akin to the erasure of Rory from history in Series Five -- events involving him still happened, and frankly some of those events don't make sense without him, but no one remembers him. A collection of effects that have no cause.
I don't have a problem with that.
Somehow, I didn't think you would. Is nothing sacred these days?
Nope.
I was thinking of something more akin to the erasure of Rory from history in Series Five -- events involving him still happened, and frankly some of those events don't make sense without him, but no one remembers him. A collection of effects that have no cause.
I don't have a problem with that.
Somehow, I didn't think you would. Is nothing sacred these days?
Nope.
Surprise, surprise.
Well given the inconsistencies over the decades in the classic Whoniverse, it would be impossible to use it all as the foundation of the new show's universe. At the beginning of the new show, it's pretty clear that it's supposed to be our world, and our world didn't have a British space programme in the 70s and 80s. New viewers would have been utterly confused by the incoherent 'canon' of the show. It's basically a lost cause to try to form it into a consistent back story. For some reason, the writers not paying too much attention to canon (in the old series, too) never really bugged me with Doctor Who.
The serial is not lost, only the last episode with the exception of the Doctor's regeneration, which exists. I watched it but don't remember much, honestly. It's not a very coherent story.
The serial is not lost, only the last episode with the exception of the Doctor's regeneration, which exists. I watched it but don't remember much, honestly. It's not a very coherent story.
The new series hasn't been that consistent either. "Dalek" for instance, and the recent revelations in series five that the "Stolen Earth" and "Next Doctor" didn't happen from the average person's POV (Due to the cracks). I'm pretty sure the Doctor himself remembers-after all, in the Angels two-parter he said it doesn't really effect time travellers (Although Amy forgot Rory for a bit). Then there's nobody remembering Daleks and Cybermen in the Utah bunker. So basically, the Doctor's time stream remains the same as it has been, just events around him seem to change a lot.
The classic series is pretty much still "canon" in a sense from a certain POV. All the past Doctors have been referenced, as well as a good chunk of the companions (In SJA and the recent Flesh and Stone special scene), most of the enemies (with a few exceptions) and certain technobabble terms like "Transmat" "Atron energy" etc..
And two days ago "Pyramid Of Mars" was qouted pretty much word-for-word: "These controls are isomorphic. One to one, they answer to my call."
The only person who really tried to put DW events into a solid canon were some of the NA/BBC books writers. Lance Parkin in particular with his history of the universe. And even that had a lot of conjecture and guesswork to try to make things fit.
The classic series is pretty much still "canon" in a sense from a certain POV. All the past Doctors have been referenced, as well as a good chunk of the companions (In SJA and the recent Flesh and Stone special scene), most of the enemies (with a few exceptions) and certain technobabble terms like "Transmat" "Atron energy" etc..
And two days ago "Pyramid Of Mars" was qouted pretty much word-for-word: "These controls are isomorphic. One to one, they answer to my call."
The only person who really tried to put DW events into a solid canon were some of the NA/BBC books writers. Lance Parkin in particular with his history of the universe. And even that had a lot of conjecture and guesswork to try to make things fit.
At least Parkin made a damn good attempt, instead of constantly resorting to "wibbly wobbley, timey wimey."
Parkin's Ahistory books are great. I'm hoping he does a third edition soon updated with the rest of the Tenth Doctor's and Eleventh Doctors' adventures, and including SJA and Torchwood.
Okay, this is a list of DW stories I don't think count, as they were heavily contradicted by more recent stories:
The Ark
The Underwater Menace
The Ambassadors of Death
Inferno (possibly)
The Android Invasion
Until someone convinces me otherwise, these stories will be relegated to the "never happened" category.
The Ark
The Underwater Menace
The Ambassadors of Death
Inferno (possibly)
The Android Invasion
Until someone convinces me otherwise, these stories will be relegated to the "never happened" category.
They actually touched on this briefly way back in 'The Keeper of Traken'. Shame they dodged the issue.
The 4th Doctor and Adric are reading through some dusty old Timelogs.
Doctor: "Interesting stuff eh?"
Adric: "If I could understand it."
Doctor: "WHAT?!"
Adric: "Look, I read about something that just happened."
Doctor: "And?"
Adric: "Well the next page said it didn't happen at all."
Doctor: "So?"
Adric:"But this page said it did happen but many years ago."
Doctor: "Well, I always did have a very distinctive prose style."
The 4th Doctor and Adric are reading through some dusty old Timelogs.
Doctor: "Interesting stuff eh?"
Adric: "If I could understand it."
Doctor: "WHAT?!"
Adric: "Look, I read about something that just happened."
Doctor: "And?"
Adric: "Well the next page said it didn't happen at all."
Doctor: "So?"
Adric:"But this page said it did happen but many years ago."
Doctor: "Well, I always did have a very distinctive prose style."
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The Christmas Invasion states that the launching of the Guinevere One probe was Britain's first mission to Mars, clearly totally invalidating the British Mars missions in the 70s in Classic Who. Ergo, Ambassadors of Death never happened, and it's likely The Android Invasion didn't either, as that story had Britain sending space freighters all the way to Jupiter. In light of NuWho, this is outright nonsense.
