I am surprised this thread was resurrected.
TOS Purists of TrekBBS - Unite!
- Thread starter TOS Purist
- Start date
TOS Purist;4595462I've...done nothing with the BBS? And I've never said that "Spock's Brain" was a bad episode. I actually don't think there is such a thing as a bad TOS episode said:you[/I] watched "Spock's Brain?" It's really not that bad.
Sorry (and TOS fan since 1969 here); but And The Children Shall Lead is a just plain, bad episode. Seriously, there is nothing to redeem it. So I challenge yoour assertion that there are no bad TOS episodes.
If you think his signature is inflammatory then you should have seen mine about a year or two ago.
Warped9: Star Trek: 1964-1979. Let's get back to space adventure, strange new worlds and the final frontier. Contemporary Trek has failed...
number6
Vice Admiral
About twenty episodes of TOS are first rate. You can burn the other negatives and humanity will not be lessened. JJTrek is better than most of TOS.
More than twenty, but less than half.
JJTrek reminds me more of Coon's Star Trek than Roddenberry's Trek.. Coon delivered a better balance of broad sci-fi concepts and action adventure. JJTrek certainly brought the fun back into a franchise that had collapsed under the weight of its own self importance.
I think some of the fans are guilty as sin of elevating the original show far above where reality places it. Don't get me wrong.. I loved the show growing up, but could recognize a great episode from one that was phoned in.
And TOS certainly had as many of those as any of the series that followed. Even the cast complained that stories were being rehashed over three years of production and some scripts were just plain silly.
It's all subjective, but any show which makes this much of an impact has to have a good percentage of better than average stories. Honestly, if there were 20 good episodes and 59 bad episodes, who would be talking about it? Anyway, without elevating the series unrealistically, my own personal count comes out to this:
Outstanding episodes: 19
Good episodes: 25
Average episodes: 19
The Dregs: 16
Not surprisingly, the majority of the dregs come from the third season, but they still come out to less than ¼ of the total episodes. Your mileage may vary.
Outstanding episodes: 19
Good episodes: 25
Average episodes: 19
The Dregs: 16
Not surprisingly, the majority of the dregs come from the third season, but they still come out to less than ¼ of the total episodes. Your mileage may vary.
About twenty episodes of TOS are first rate. You can burn the other negatives and humanity will not be lessened. JJTrek is better than most of TOS.
More than twenty, but less than half.
More than twenty are good, but not really excellent. I suppose humanity would be diminished just a tad by the elimination of, oh, "Dagger Of The Mind," but not that much.
I think ssosmcin has it about right, though I think the episodes jump from "Good" straight down to D-.
Nah, I think there's a mid-point between good and dregs. Here's the same system with one example per:
Outstanding: City on the Edge of Forever
Good: Tomorrow Is Yesterday
Average: By Any Other Name
Dregs: The Way to Eden
Of course, one person's Outstanding is another person's Dregs, this is just my POV. Star Trek was a great show, better than some people here state, but not as rarified as others make it. Whatever it was, though, it touched a shitload of people, a lot more than just about any other. So, it had something that made it special. Each to his or her own reasons.
Outstanding: City on the Edge of Forever
Good: Tomorrow Is Yesterday
Average: By Any Other Name
Dregs: The Way to Eden
Of course, one person's Outstanding is another person's Dregs, this is just my POV. Star Trek was a great show, better than some people here state, but not as rarified as others make it. Whatever it was, though, it touched a shitload of people, a lot more than just about any other. So, it had something that made it special. Each to his or her own reasons.
Probably after having seen them all dozens of times I'm a little less patient with episodes like "By Any Other Names" - their flaws, as well as their occasional pleasures (hiya, "Doc Ostrow!") - are magnified by repetition.
To me the By Any Other Names (nothing BAD, but nothing good about it) are far "worse" than Way to Eden or Spock's Brain. That is, boring is worse than weird/wtf.
IMHO, That Which Survives is among the worst. It's like a ten minute concept that got stretched into an hour. Ho hum.
IMHO, That Which Survives is among the worst. It's like a ten minute concept that got stretched into an hour. Ho hum.
There's no real story to "That Which Survives" - it's a premise that they do nothing with.
This is well-said. I don't come in to this forum very often, in part because I find there is a bit of an attitude of the other Treks just not mattering or being consequential at all. Sure, you'll get this from Niners on occasion as well, but certainly not as frequently or as pervasively.
And it's a little off-putting, honestly, as someone that loves TOS... and TNG and DS9. Hell, I even have a soft spot for VOY and ENT, even if they did fail to live up to their potential.
And gods help you should you admit you so much as cracked a smile when you watched JJ Abrams Trek. Or, if you were me, sat with a big, goofy "Trek is back!" grin on your face the whole way through...
That cuts both ways.
Heaven help you if you so much as make a critical remark towards ST09, lest the JJnistas descend upon you with the thermal detonators.
Heaven help you if you so much as make a critical remark towards ST09, lest the JJnistas descend upon you with the thermal detonators.
Yet, you see, this is where it can get tricky. You can look at a film or television series and you judge that's juvenile or juvenile minded. You're expressing your opinion of the film's quality. And yet guaranteed that someone out there will take it as a personal affront as to their tastes and/or level of intelligence.
Liking anything artistic and created by people is subjective. I know a few Trek fans that hate Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan with the passion that some hate Trek 09.
So if you hate the new movie that is just fine. The problem becomes when anyone proclaims that their human opinion on the matter is the objective truth that we all must agree with. This includes the gushers and the haters.
So if you hate the new movie that is just fine. The problem becomes when anyone proclaims that their human opinion on the matter is the objective truth that we all must agree with. This includes the gushers and the haters.
Okay, I know I'm not going to be popular for saying this, but since at the end of the day all of Star Trek is purely fictional, isn't it kind of meaningless to argue over what "really happened" in a fictional world? None of it really happened. Sometimes the writing is good, sometimes the writing is bad. Sometimes the writers do stuff we don't like and we can pretend in our minds that it never happened. That's basically what I did for Star Trek V and VII. But I don't want to quibble over whether it's "canon."
Well, there ya go, bein' logical....
