is Stargate dead for good?

[Morpheus 02]

i think what killed the Stargate franchise are a couple of things:

1) stopped making Stargate like it was fun, and a better version of Trek.

SG-1 seemed to do a lot of stories that we saw on Trek, but far more enjoyable.

They could have made Atlantis like DS-9 and.or Voyager, to a degree, and address nitpicks in a different way, shoiwing how newer Trek SHOULD have been done.

2) Stopped having likeable characters, who had some arc they could grow through. SG-1 was easy, and fulfilled that mission. Atlantis had SHepard & McKay. But Teyla & Ford were just a rough sketch, and obviously no real effort was made to develop an arc. In Universe...i didn't like most of the characters enough to care

The only possibility i see with Stargate, wouldbe some kind of Teen/Pre-teen series that might also include time travel. It would need to have the FUN factor back.

 

[Morpheus 02]

Also, Sam Carter has a brother named Mark. I do like the idea that they could be cousins, except you'd think Jacob would want to look in on his nephew Jack.

I do love it when we get caught up on tangents like this and derail threads.

Aren't both the Stargate program & Eureka technically secret projects?

Also, isn't Jacob a Tok'ra, who may still be busy off world (he didn't die, did he?)? At this point in his life, he might not have itme to visit family...or in fact, may have been declared dead, due to his cancer.

 

[backstept]

Eureka and Warehouse 13 already had crossovers. . . . so if Stargate and Eureka had a crossover it would also mean that WH13 takes place in the Stargate universe . . . so why haven't the warehouse agents come to contain Cheyenne Mountain itself :P
bring on the purple goo!

 

[Cm. Kora'Tor]

Also, isn't Jacob a Tok'ra, who may still be busy off world (he didn't die, did he?)? At this point in his life, he might not have itme to visit family...or in fact, may have been declared dead, due to his cancer.

Jacob died in March 2005...Selmak fell into a coma after a Replicator attack...and could not save his host from dying with him.

 

[SG-17]

Also, isn't Jacob a Tok'ra, who may still be busy off world (he didn't die, did he?)? At this point in his life, he might not have itme to visit family...or in fact, may have been declared dead, due to his cancer.

Jacob died in March 2005...Selmak fell into a coma after a Replicator attack...and could not save his host from dying with him.

Which is something I don't get considering that the symbiote Apophis died and his host survived. I doubt that Apophis had the strength to prevent the release of the toxin, for that matter why would he want to?

 

[Jax]

I still think we wil see SG-A DVD movies because unlike a TV show, the DVD will benefit off the worldwide fanbase rather than the North America base. SG-1 DVD movie is a little more up in the air though I would like a wrap up to the entire franchise in some way maybe with the program becoming public.

As for TV, I simply don't see where they could go with TV show. I think SG as we knew it is dead on TV and a re-boot wouldn't come anytime soon but really what the hell could you do differently with a reboot ?

Which is something I don't get considering that the symbiote Apophis died and his host survived. I doubt that Apophis had the strength to prevent the release of the toxin, for that matter why would he want to?

I thought the toxins were only released because it was a bi-product of of Jacob's symbiote dying of old age.

 

[SG-17]

No I believe that it was stated that the symbiote automatically kills the host if it dies regardless unless it willingly chooses not to.

 

[Australis]

Well, considering what has gone before, and where they are now, I wondered what could you have next. Came up with this:

A team of scientists with a couple of mercenary guards (maybe ex-SGC types) sneak into SGC, dial a gate and bug out. Their aim is to explore and record as many different worlds as they can. SGC want to bring them back, they don't want to return, and jump from world to world. Outside the law, outside any support from home, they have to rely on their own devices.

Maybe they have a vehicle something like a puddlejumper, or not. Maybe they pick up a ship along the way. maybe they lose it later. Maybe they lose team members, maybe they gain team members. They skirt round the edge of Goa'uld sites or Ori places, or visit worlds that original series only visited once.

I think this could have a Dr Who feel, and be a big break from what has gone before.

Aaaand that's my $0.02 worth.

The team that comes/is brought home in the finale is very different and very informed.

 

[Gepard]

I don't think digging further into their entrenched and frankly often goofy mythology is a good idea. Stargate started with a simple and appealing premise, drained that of potential under the old guard, and then tried to mine more and more from the (poor) world building they'd set up. All that does is make things more convoluted and obscure, and thus more difficult for the casual audience to follow. That kind of thinking helped kill prime universe Star Trek, and I'm pretty sure it didn't help SGU. And just as I don't believe that anybody but die-hards would watch a post-Dominion war Trek series that explores the ramifications of the post-scarcity Federation economy on galactic reconstruction in the wake of newfound freedom for Gamma Quadrant citizens resulting from the post-war armisgaaaAAAAAAHHH BLARGH FRGLE SHUT UP, nether do I believe that anyone would care about a fourth Stargate series set in the (dead) continuity, waltzing about its pileup of replicator-Goa'uld-Tok'ra-Ori-Asgard-Ancient-whateverum...stuff. Enough already. I got thoroughly sick of it by the middle of Atlantis, and I don't want any more.

Temis has the right of it, in this case: Stargate had a solid core in the beginning, with a quartet of likable characters with good chemistry on an easy to understand mission. Much of the charm of early SG-1 came, IMO, from that sense of our characters as inexperienced explorers taking tentative steps into a large and unknown galaxy. The details of what they found aren't important, what mattered was that Obi-Wannish sense of them taking their first steps into a larger world. It was fresh, it was exciting, and given the success of Trek XI in going back to Trek's original core characters and mission, any new Stargate production will probably ape their approach. And, as someone who's never liked latter-day SG-1 or either of the spinoffs as much as those first few seasons, I'd welcome it.

 

[Guy Gardener]

As long as they keep making one or two seasons of Red Dwarf every decade, you can't say shit like that.

 

[Caliburn24]

Well, considering what has gone before, and where they are now, I wondered what could you have next. Came up with this:

A team of scientists with a couple of mercenary guards (maybe ex-SGC types) sneak into SGC, dial a gate and bug out. Their aim is to explore and record as many different worlds as they can. SGC want to bring them back, they don't want to return, and jump from world to world. Outside the law, outside any support from home, they have to rely on their own devices.

Maybe they have a vehicle something like a puddlejumper, or not. Maybe they pick up a ship along the way. maybe they lose it later. Maybe they lose team members, maybe they gain team members. They skirt round the edge of Goa'uld sites or Ori places, or visit worlds that original series only visited once.

I think this could have a Dr Who feel, and be a big break from what has gone before.

Aaaand that's my $0.02 worth.

The team that comes/is brought home in the finale is very different and very informed.

Behold Stargate Infinity...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stargate_Infinity

Stargate Infinity (often abbreviated as SGI or just Infinity) is an American animated science fiction television series and part of Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer's (MGM) Stargate franchise, but is not considered official Stargate canon. The show was created by Eric Lewald and Michael Maliani, as a spin-off series of Stargate SG-1 created by Brad Wright and Jonathan Glassner after the release of Stargate (1994). The cartoon had a low viewership rating and poor reception; it was canceled after one season. Co-produced by MGM and DIC Entertainment (Now Cookie Jar Group) and directed by Will Meugniot.

The story arc of Stargate Infinity follows Gus Bonner being framed for opening the Stargate for Alien shapeshifters in a future version of Stargate Command (SGC). Bonner escapes with other fresh recruits to the Stargate program through the gate. The team can not return to Earth before they have cleared their names. The show was cancelled before any of its major plots could be resolved. The story unfolds when the members of the team encounters different alien races from other planets.[1]

The executive producers for the show were Andy Heyward and co-creator Michael Maliani. Will Meugniot was supervising director and as of the series cancellation only three directors directed the 26 episode series. Mike Piccirillo wrote the music which was performed by: Mike Piccirillo and Jean-Michel Guirao. The show often featured an educational comment or summary about the moral lessons learned during the course of an episode.[2]

The writers and producers of Stargate SG-1 and the main canon of the Stargate franchise were not involved with Infinity, and neither MGM, the production teams nor the fans of Stargate consider Infinity to be an official part of the Stargate universe. According to Stargate SG-1 co-creator Brad Wright, the animated series should not be considered official Stargate canon. Commenting on it, he stated, "I don't have a problem with it. I'm just not involved."[3]
See also: Stargate fandom

Stargate Infinity is set 30 years into the future and follows Gus Bonner and his team. G. Bonner's team was created after he was framed for a crime he did not commit. He escaped from Stargate Command (SGC) after the hostile alien race Tlak'kahn attacked the SGC to find the chrysalis. He together with his team escapes through the Stargate with the chrysalis. From that point forward they go visit planet to planet until they find the evidence to clear their names while learning about the unique cultures in the galaxy, so that they can one day return back to Earth.[1] The story arc was never resolved because of low viewership ratings; the show was cancelled in 2003.[citation needed]

• Dale Wilson voiced as Gus Bonner – A SG team veteran who was framed of disobeying orders and sending his men into an ambush. He escapes and leads a team of youngsters through the Gate to clear their names.
• Tifanie Christun voiced as Stacey Bonner – G. Bonner's niece, a SGC recruit first seen in the Gate room when the hostile alien race Tlak'kahn attacks the SGC to find the chrysalis. She thinks G. Bonner is a traitor for opening the Stargate for the Tlak'kahn.
• Bettina Bush voiced as Seattle Montoya – A native American who has different visions which helps the team to get out of harm's way. She escaped with the others through the Stargate during the attack.
• Mark Hildreth voiced as R.J. Harrison – A youngster who recently graduated from the academy and a member of G. Bonner's team. He escapes with him through the Stargate with the chrysalis in order to get it out of harm's way.
• Kathleen Barr voiced as Draga – An alien discovered by the SGC, she is referred to throughout the series as Dragon Lady. She is a being that is believed to have been an Ancient. She is born in the very first episode where she emerges fully grown; she has strange possibly unlimited powers which she has little control of. Once when the team visited a race of aliens who resembled her but treated those who couldn't fly like nonentity she was given the chance to learn more but realised she belonged with her friends. Draga is very curious and kind and often seems childlike in her innocence although this diminished noticeably throughout the series.
• Cusse Mankuma voiced as Ec'co – A friendly half-alien and a SGC cadet. He can fix anything with whatever is lying around. He joins the others to rescue the chrysalis.
• Mackenzie Gray voiced as Pahk'kal – An alien and allied with G. Bonner and his team.
• Mark Acheson voiced as Da'Kyll – An alien who is the leader of the Tlak'kahn. He is allied to Nephestis to capture alien creatures for reasons unknown.

I caught a few snippets of it back when it was on TV. The moral lessons were laughable. The animation was bad, as was the voice acting. But some of the core story elements(such as Ancients not looking like humans, vehicles going through the gates etc) as well as the premise of the show, were very interesting.

 

[Captain Shaw]

Isn't eureka made by a different company than the one who makes stargate? So they would not be allowed to have crossovers.

 

[Witterquick]

I think Syfy needs to be rebooted. It doesn't matter if Stargate comes back or not in the near future.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

I don't think it was 'refusing to develop the story', more trying to balance the overall arc with a somewhat episodic format. There were some ideas that weren't expanded, but overall I think the storyline was strong and relatively coherent. Do you have any examples besides a feeling that the stories could have been more in depth?

Balancing the serialized and episodic elements is what prevented the writers from really developing the more intriguing plotlines. I don't mind an episodic story every now and then, but it shouldn't interfere with the important stuff.

Here are a few initial ideas for developing storylines to their fullest:

The Goa'uld - They were turned into jokes from the first, nothing more than flamboyant bwahaha baddies to serve as target practice for Our Heroes. I would have made far more effort to develop them as a coherent species, with enough depth to allow them to break out of their cardboard role.

They should have had more social cohesion so that they would be more impressive foes. It was far too easy to beat them by turning them against each other. I liked the notion that they were a reasonable, intelligent species that had been driven insane by collecting too many memories over too many lifetimes, so what's the solution? Perhaps an effort by their offspring to supplant the insane old folks and get them out of the picture?

And were all of them insane? To give them more variety and depth, I would have depicted some of the older ones as being completely and irrevocably round the bend, but younger ones (Nirrti and Ba'al for instance) simply being cynical poseurs who affected Goa'uld looniness to keep the peasants in line.

The Tok'ra - A real lost opportunity. How and why did they behave differently from the Goa'uld? Why did they develop a separate ethical philosophy? Are they "sane" simply because they haven't been driven crazy by too many hosts' memories?

Regardless of their superior ethics, there's no getting around the inherent conflict between them and the Tau'ri, considering they cannot survive as a species without human hosts (something I don't think was ever absolutely clarified).

The series negated this interesting dramatic direction by having the Tok'ra have no queen and therefore no incentive to expand the worlds under their influence to accommodate her offspring. I wouldn't have short-circuited this storyline, I would have jumped right into it feet-first.

The Jaffa - They never really broke out of being Klingon knock-offs, but I would have pushed for better development. There was one episode that suggested the tricky Jaffa/Tau'ri/Tok'ra alliance could become interestingly problematic for all concerned. There's another plotline I would have jumped into feet-first.

Via this alliance, I would have had the Tok'ra gain so much power from their alliance with the Jaffa and Tau'ri that they were on the verge of supplanting one Goa'uld empire after another. Then the issue becomes: how much of an improvement is this, really? Are the Tau'ri simply building up the next threat down the line?

The Tau'ri - Having the Stargate program and its scary implications become public knowledge might be an unworkable storyline, since it would broaden the dramatics far beyond the confines of Cheyenne Mountain. But I never bought the idea of international cooperation as depicted in the series. There would have been a lot more jockeying for position and mistrust given the stakes.

The Rit'u - Their viewpoint was eminently sensible: if the Goa'uld are a problem, solve the problem by eradicating the Tau'ri. This element should definitely have been brought into the story for at least one season.

There are other elements I wouldn't have bothered with, such as the Ori, who never really stuck me as interesting. The Wraith are a whole other topic, but my ideas for them might be too parallel to the Goa'uld, so maybe they should be left on the cutting room floor as well.

Honestly I think that the only place that Stargate can go from this point forward, especially after seeing how a purely arc driven show was received, is to go with full public disclosure of the Stargate program to the people of Earth.

If we're talking about a whole different new series, then yes, this is a very interesting premise, perhaps based on a defensive outpost in orbit around Earth rather than buried under Cheyenne Mountain. But I'd still opt for a reboot since the Goa'uld were by far the "best" threat that Stargate ever came up with, in the sense of being the most likely to generate panic on Earth due to their total creepiness and make the situation all that harder to deal with.

And just as I don't believe that anybody but die-hards would watch a post-Dominion war Trek series that explores the ramifications of the post-scarcity Federation economy on galactic reconstruction in the wake of newfound freedom for Gamma Quadrant citizens resulting from the post-war armisgaaaAAAAAAHHH BLARGH FRGLE SHUT UP,

Spending too much time in the Future of Trek forum?

I think Syfy needs to be rebooted.

That's the best answer so far.

 

[RJDiogenes]

Is Stargate dead? Depends on what lesson Sciffy has learned from this. If they've learned, which seems likely, that the audience is sick of Stargate, then Stargate is dead. If they've learned, which is less likely, that Stargate fans aren't interested in adolescent grimness and visuals that are dull as cigarette ash, while the D&G fans won't touch anything with the name Stargate on it, then perhaps they will bring on something more thematically consistent with the first two shows.

 

[Gepard]

Spending too much time in the Future of Trek forum?

In the sense that I have spent any time in there...yes.

f they've learned, which is less likely, that Stargate fans aren't interested in adolescent grimness and visuals that are dull as cigarette ash...

I'm a Stargate fan and I'm interested in those things. SGU just did them badly.

 

[SG-17]

I'm an 18 year old, life-long Stargate fan, and I am not (though the CG of the Hammond and the Ha'taks were cinema quality amazing). I love the Destiny herself and her mission, but I couldn't care less about the people. Rush and Young are the only ones who have any semblance of the "two character back and forth" that we've had in the past with Jack and Daniel as well as John and Rodney.

 

[TiberiusMaximus]

I don't think it was 'refusing to develop the story', more trying to balance the overall arc with a somewhat episodic format. There were some ideas that weren't expanded, but overall I think the storyline was strong and relatively coherent. Do you have any examples besides a feeling that the stories could have been more in depth?

Balancing the serialized and episodic elements is what prevented the writers from really developing the more intriguing plotlines. I don't mind an episodic story every now and then, but it shouldn't interfere with the important stuff.

Here are a few initial ideas for developing storylines to their fullest:

The Goa'uld - They were turned into jokes from the first, nothing more than flamboyant bwahaha baddies to serve as target practice for Our Heroes. I would have made far more effort to develop them as a coherent species, with enough depth to allow them to break out of their cardboard role.

They should have had more social cohesion so that they would be more impressive foes. It was far too easy to beat them by turning them against each other. I liked the notion that they were a reasonable, intelligent species that had been driven insane by collecting too many memories over too many lifetimes, so what's the solution? Perhaps an effort by their offspring to supplant the insane old folks and get them out of the picture?

And were all of them insane? To give them more variety and depth, I would have depicted some of the older ones as being completely and irrevocably round the bend, but younger ones (Nirrti and Ba'al for instance) simply being cynical poseurs who affected Goa'uld looniness to keep the peasants in line.

The Tok'ra - A real lost opportunity. How and why did they behave differently from the Goa'uld? Why did they develop a separate ethical philosophy? Are they "sane" simply because they haven't been driven crazy by too many hosts' memories?

Regardless of their superior ethics, there's no getting around the inherent conflict between them and the Tau'ri, considering they cannot survive as a species without human hosts (something I don't think was ever absolutely clarified).

The series negated this interesting dramatic direction by having the Tok'ra have no queen and therefore no incentive to expand the worlds under their influence to accommodate her offspring. I wouldn't have short-circuited this storyline, I would have jumped right into it feet-first.

The Jaffa - They never really broke out of being Klingon knock-offs, but I would have pushed for better development. There was one episode that suggested the tricky Jaffa/Tau'ri/Tok'ra alliance could become interestingly problematic for all concerned. There's another plotline I would have jumped into feet-first.

Via this alliance, I would have had the Tok'ra gain so much power from their alliance with the Jaffa and Tau'ri that they were on the verge of supplanting one Goa'uld empire after another. Then the issue becomes: how much of an improvement is this, really? Are the Tau'ri simply building up the next threat down the line?

The Tau'ri - Having the Stargate program and its scary implications become public knowledge might be an unworkable storyline, since it would broaden the dramatics far beyond the confines of Cheyenne Mountain. But I never bought the idea of international cooperation as depicted in the series. There would have been a lot more jockeying for position and mistrust given the stakes.

The Rit'u - Their viewpoint was eminently sensible: if the Goa'uld are a problem, solve the problem by eradicating the Tau'ri. This element should definitely have been brought into the story for at least one season.

There are other elements I wouldn't have bothered with, such as the Ori, who never really stuck me as interesting. The Wraith are a whole other topic, but my ideas for them might be too parallel to the Goa'uld, so maybe they should be left on the cutting room floor as well.

Yay, I love examples. Now I know you've actually thought about this.

You're right about the Goa'uld and their cardboard evil...the few that were bigger threats were usually the more sensible, realistic ones or the ones who KNEW they weren't gods. More of that would have made them more believable as a villain.

I think you're missing the entire point of the Tok'ra. Their philosophy and ideals are based on symbiosis, not subjection. They considered it abhorrent and immoral to subjugate a human host by force, so the conflict really can't be based on that. The fact that they had no queen meant that they were dying as a race or at least a culture. The Tok'ra are not really a species, merely a faction. Although I agree that it would be interesting to learn more about their backstory.

The shaky alliance should have had more episodes...apparently all it took to cement their unity was an Ash'rak killing a bunch of them.

In retrospect, you're absolutely correct that SG-1 missed a lot of opportunities. However, I always liked the balance it struck between story arcs and standalone episodes, and it obviously worked. 10 Seasons says so. Still, it would be cool to learn more about those and dropping them was quite silly.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

I think you're missing the entire point of the Tok'ra. Their philosophy and ideals are based on symbiosis, not subjection. They considered it abhorrent and immoral to subjugate a human host by force, so the conflict really can't be based on that.

I know that's how they were written, but I don't see that as being as interesting as rewriting them so that there's more of a mystery what they're all about, and just how like or unlike the Goa'uld they really are.

My whole philosophy in this thread (as in everything I post) is that everything is up for grabs. If I think a story needs to be rewritten from the ground up with nothing of the original retained, I'll happily go right ahead and do that.

 

[23skidoo]

I tend to look at the Stargate franchise from an outsider's perspective. Try as I did on several occasions, I was simply never able to really get into it. First impressions are always key, and my first impression was that Stargate was a one-trick pony - that may have been a wrong impression, but that's the one that stuck with me. I like Richard Dean Anderson a lot, and I did try to get into Stargate near the end when Ben Browder and Claudia Black were together again - but that was a Farscape thing. The spinoffs gave me even less interest, except for Jewel Staite being involved in one of them.

So the demise of SGU won't bug me in the slightest. At the same time, I don't see this as the end for the franchise. Despite there being 3 series over the last 15 years, I never really got the sense of franchise fatigue from Stargate fans the way I got from Trek fans. Lots of Trekkies were sick and tired of that franchise by the time Voyager got started, but while I did hear some "not agains" when SGU was announced, I still get the feeling Stargate fans are interested in more.

How well did Ark of Truth do on DVD/BD? If it did OK maybe the future will be in made-for-DVD/Blu-Ray films. Either that or a big-screen movie. I imagine it's due (and maybe they can get Kurt Russell involved and make a direct link to the original film).

Alex