So what are you reading now (Part 4)?
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Yup. It's always been my understanding that the KM is for command-track cadets specifically. And Spock always said he never wished to command. He only took the captaincy of the E when it became a cadet vessel (or, within the context of Mere Anarchy: The Darkness Drops Again, when it became Admiral Kirk's personal flagship with various responsibilities including cadet training).
Although the new movie offers another explanation for why Spock didn't take the test -- because he programmed it.
Although the new movie offers another explanation for why Spock didn't take the test -- because he programmed it.
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I finished Crucible: Spock - The Fire and the Rose the other day. I'm now reading Typhon Pact - Sieze the Fire.
@Cap'n Crunch: How was that Crucible book? I've only read the McCoy volume, and that because the idea of McCoy living out US history from the 1930s sounded fascinating.
I just finished The Kobayashi Maru by Julia Ecklar, which I read in the same week as Martin and Mangel's book for the fun of it. Good book, worthy of bearing the number #47.
For those who've not heard of it it: Kirk, Sulu, Scotty, Chekov, and McCoy are stuck in a stranded shuttlecraft waiting for rescue and the four who took the test entertain the others by telling the story of how they approached the test. Their differing attempts are interesting little reveals at their characters as young men.
I just finished The Kobayashi Maru by Julia Ecklar, which I read in the same week as Martin and Mangel's book for the fun of it. Good book, worthy of bearing the number #47.
For those who've not heard of it it: Kirk, Sulu, Scotty, Chekov, and McCoy are stuck in a stranded shuttlecraft waiting for rescue and the four who took the test entertain the others by telling the story of how they approached the test. Their differing attempts are interesting little reveals at their characters as young men.
ST-One
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He only programmed the test "for the last four years". That doesn't mean he he came up with the test itself - only with the current scenario.
ST-One
Vice Admiral
I found this trilogy rather disappointing.
I'm still working my way through the (early) Perry Rhodan series... only 2497 issues to read now
I really liked books 1,2, only part three was a bit iffy. Good character bits but the pseudo-science wasn't as good.
I should see if there's a thread on the series so I can bitch....
You are a fast reader if you are through it already - or you have too much time on your hands
Whether he invented it or not has nothing to do with the issue here. The point of the KM is that the cadets taking it don't know it's supposed to be a no-win scenario, at least not the first time they take it. The point is to gauge their response to a hopeless situation, and you can't get an accurate read on that if they know going in that there's no way to win. Since Spock was a programmer for the simulation, he was in on all its secrets, so it would've been useless to have him actually take it.
It was alright. Not nearly as good as the McCoy book, but still entertaining. Sometimes the characteriziation of Spock felt a bit off, especially around the last 1/3 or 1/4 of the book, but nothing too bad. I believe that a lot of the scenes that take place during COTEOF were pretty much copied directly from the episode (same exact dialogue, etc). But it's been so long since I've seen the episode that sometimes I had a hard time telling which scenes were lifted directly from it.
So overall, I wouldn't say it's a must read or anything, but if you're a Spock fan it might be worth checking out.
ST-One
Vice Admiral
So?
Of course it would be pointless for Spock to take his own test.
But he was a cadet once too. And we don't know whether he took the test as a cadet in this timeline.
I don't understand what point you're trying to make. We do know, from TWOK, that Spock never took the KM test in the Prime continuity. That's not in dispute. We have it in his own words, as deathbed testimony, no less.
Now, the prevailing explanation for that before 2009 was that Spock hadn't been on the command track and thus wouldn't have needed to take the KM. However, the movie now offers another possible explanation for why he didn't take it, one that works just as well. Despite it being a different timeline, we know from the filmmakers' comments that their intent was to suggest that many of the events of the film were largely similar to what happened in the Prime timeline, and this is clear in the Academy sequence, right down to Kirk taking the test three times just as he did in Prime continuity. So the implication is that they intended this as their explanation for why Spock never took the KM in either timeline.
Now, I'm not saying I agree with that. We know that in Prime, Spock served under Pike for over 11 years, presumably on the Enterprise. Since the E was launched later in the Abramsverse, I assume that Pike and Spock served at the Academy instead of on that ship, so that suggests Spock's career wouldn't have been so Academy-centric in Prime. I'm merely describing what I think the filmmakers' intent was -- they started with the accepted fact that Spock never took the Kobayashi Maru and came up with their own way of fitting that into their "origin story."
ST-One
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You and CountZero indicated that you think Spock invented the test and that he therefor could not have take it.
"He has programmed the KM-test fot the last four years." doesn't tell us more than just that - that he programmed the test.
I never said "invented." CountZero said "designed," but I never made any such claim. I explicitly said "programmed," nothing more.
Yes, and that is exactly my point. That as a programmer of the test, he had inside information and would thus have been disqualified from taking it. I have no blessed idea where you're getting this "invented" rubbish from or why you think it has anything remotely to do with what we're talking about.
Yeah, wouldn't it make sense to let a new programmer go through an old version of the test at least once to give him an idea on what it's all about before he works on a newer version?
Spock could have taken the test while he was at the Academy and then spoken to the Commandant about how it could be improved and become the designer of the test.
We know that Spock Prime never took the test. We know that the scriptwriters wanted to make the characters' backstories (other than Kirk's) as close to the original as they could. They kept it consistent that Kirk took the test three times, and they even had him eating an apple as he cheated on the test as a callback to the Genesis Cave scene in TWOK where he ate an apple while he told Saavik how he cheated on the test. So I doubt the screenwriters intended a scenario wherein their Spock had taken the test. Maybe the premise you describe is possible, but I don't think it's what they had in mind.
And the prior argument still applies. If the KM is for command-track cadets, that means not everybody takes it.
And the prior argument still applies. If the KM is for command-track cadets, that means not everybody takes it.
Hey, why are you talking about what book you're reading in the what are you reading thread?
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