What if?; Hinchcliffe had of stayed on..

[Captain Pike]

I'm fascinated by one of the new documentaries on the new release of The Talons of Weng Chiang where Hinchcliffe states he went into the end of Season 14 expecting to do another season - before being told he was to helm a series called Target.

It made me wonder; what would a season 15 or 16 of Doctor Who have been like under Hinchcliffe had he stayed on?

There was that South American Dalek story Phillip mentions with the giant monolithic chess pieces he wanted to do, and he also states he had a desire to move towards the Rider Haggard (read Indiana Jones) style adventures.

But what else? Personally, I think a hypothetical additional Hinchcliffe season would have incorporated many of the same stories seen under Williams, but with a much darker tone to them.

Think about it. Some of those stories which are derided to this day for being too lightweight would have a completely different feel. The sinister elements would be front and centre.

Would it have been any good though? Would additional Hinchcliffe seasons have gone too far? Did he end on a high note with Talons.. and it's just best left there? I find the speculation absolutely compelling.

How do you think Philip might go if he was to theoretically take over from Moffat? I think some of the stories might lose that intracacy that you see with Moffat scripts, but as a whole, tales would take a definite turn to the macabre. Almost a viable tradeoff

You thoughts?

 

[Lonemagpie]

But what else? Personally, I think a hypothetical additional Hinchcliffe season would have incorporated many of the same stories seen under Williams, but with a much darker tone to them.

We'd still have had Image Of The Fendahl, which ISTR was already in the system, but I suspect that he'd have stuck to his guns about The Witch Lords, so we'd have that instead of Fang Rock (which means no State Of Decay in season 18, as that was basically the same script dusted off).

I doubt we'd have had Invisible Enemy or K9 - or if we did it would have been more Quatermassy and the dog would have been a one-off. Sun Makers... maybe, as it was Bob Holmes and he'd just had an argument with the tax office and so would have written some variant of that story anyway. No way would he have sprung for Underworld, though, and Invasion Of Time was a product of external circumstance so who knows what would have happened there. (I doubt he'd have commissioned the killer cats story in the first place)

Would it have been any good though? Would additional Hinchcliffe seasons have gone too far? Did he end on a high note with Talons.. and it's just best left there?

I think so, yeah - it's always best to go out on a high note.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

There was a definite quality drop off after Talons. That being said, I like Horror of Fang Rock a lot more than State of Decay, so if we got that script earlier, I wouldn't be optimistic.

 

[Captain Pike]

There's also the Mary Whitehouse factor.

I've heard that while Hinchcliffe & Holmes largely disregarded Whitehouse, there were some peeps at the BBC who took her influence seriously, and that Williams was brought in to make it all a bit more soft & cuddley.

I'm not sure how much truth there is in that, but it seems a fair bet that had they stayed on, the horror stuff would have antagonised Whitehouse even more.

If cool heads could have prevailed at the BBC, her protestations could have been a publicity coup for them and helped spur the ratings on even more.

 

[Cutter John]

Whitehouse may have been a factor still, but I'm sure they would have just toned down the scares while still keeping the same serious tone.

Of course that brings up all sorts of interesting speculation. Would Baker have stuck around for season 18? Would he have stayed longer? And would JNT ended up being the follow up Producer and would he have felt the need to change the tone of the show so radically?

 

[Shatnertage]

What if Hinchcliffe had become like JNT, but a bit earlier--forced to stay in the role after he wanted to leave?

What elements of the early seasons would have ossified as the years went on (like JNT and the question marks/uniforms for companions)? Would the gothic/Victorian look have stayed into the 1980s?

 

[DWF]

Well we know that Leela would've continued to a variety of outfits and not gotten back to her original leather outfit.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Season 15 was a drop in quality but that's simply because season 14 is arguably one of the best seasons to date (and remains my favorite). I don't know much about the behind-the-scenes history, but that all aside, I like to think Horror on Fang Rock was at least Hinchcliffe's kind of story. I certainly can see Hinchcliffe doing a variant of The Invisible Enemy although with lesser light moments (and as mentioned earlier, K-9 as a one-shot).

I'm more intrigued (as already mentioned) by the longer term effects such as Baker's tenure and if we would have had the JNT extended era. Would we have different actors as The Doctor? Would the show have lasted longer or would it have been canceled sooner because of Mary Whitehouse and/or Michael Grade?

 

[Starkers]

I think it's safe to assume that any change, even a minor one in terms of production/actor would have had huge ramifications. If Tom did another series you can easily imagine a scenario whereby, even if Davison was still the first choice, he has other commitments by then, very few actors would put their career on hiatus, even to get a gig like Who (and at the time it was probably quite a coup to get the job). Once you lose Davison potentially the whole timeline (ha ha) unwinds. Maybe whoever replaces him decides to do 7 years like Tom, maybe he only does a series? Either way I think it's unlikely either Colin or McCoy would have ended up cast (or maybe they would have, maybe Colin would have ended up the 7th Doctor, who knows)

As for Hinchliffe, anyone in that job, no matter how creative, how good, can stay in the role too long and become burned out. There's just only so many ways you can look at a series/character, only so many stories you can tell, and as great as the gothic era of Who was, it couldn't have gone on forever.

 

[Lonemagpie]

Colin might have ended up cast, as he was an actor with a track record - McCoy, no fucking way. *only* JNT would ever have cast him...

 

[Tomalak]

"... and of course Ken Dodd has performed Shakespeare quite brilliantly."

 

[Lonemagpie]

"... and of course Ken Dodd has performed Shakespeare quite brilliantly."

Unfortunately he was shit in Dr Who....

 

[Captain Pike]

Well we know that Leela would've continued to a variety of outfits and not gotten back to her original leather outfit.

This is a good point. There would certainly have been a more organic progression of her character along the Eliza Doolitle mold.

Didn't Jamieson end up leaving on her own accord, due to her character being compromised over time? If so, then under an alternate extended Hinchcliffe regime, she may well have stayed on a while longer.

Though perhaps not. I have heard Tom gave her a bit of a hard time (he was still missing having Liz around, apparently).

 

[Cutter John]

Well
Though perhaps not. I have heard Tom gave her a bit of a hard time (he was still missing having Liz around, apparently).

Pretty much what I'd always heard as well. He was starting to get a bit prickly about this time.

 

[Tomalak]

He just wanted the Doctor to have no companion at all, so was probably taking it out on her because he didn't get his way.

 

[Bones2]

That and Tom Baker was an arrogant drunk who, at his Williams-era worst, was a pratfalling ham. Though he always stayed watchable, in a way I think Troughton, Pertwee, Davison, and McCoy wouldn't necessarily. Even in their shoddy stories, I think Hartnell and the Bakers rose above it to quite an extent.

 

[Cutter John]

Williams and Adams unfortuntely had trouble saying 'No' to Tom, so they let him get away with way too much onscreen silliness.

He just wanted the Doctor to have no companion at all, so was probably taking it out on her because he didn't get his way.

No idea how true or serious he was, but I definately recall Baker going on about how his idea of the perfect companion would be a victorian street urchin who constantly hid under the console. Or a head a cabbage.

 

[Shatnertage]

When I was ten, I legitimately had no idea of the...broad spectrum that Tom Baker's Doctor inhabited. I thought it was a pretty even interpretation of the character from Robot to Logopolis. It's amazing what perspective the years add.

I'll respectfully dissent from Bones and say that, despite all of the ham, there's something charming about the Williams years. Today I guess it reminds me that fish custard isn't really such a departure.

How much of the humor is Williams and how much is Douglas Adams?

 

[Captain Pike]

Hard to say.

With regards to Baker being drunk, so what? 9/10ths of the BBC was drunk during that time.

He wasn't as bad as a lot of them. Watch Cook & Moore or Sir Richard Harris anytime - they are quite clearly visibly drunk during many performances. Doesn't take away from them being great talents.

 

[Starkers]

I've heard various stories about several British light entertainment luminaries who were pissed as a newt before live shows, but who snapped into being professional the moment the lights came up (I think Tommy Cooper was one but don't quote me on that!)