Humerous plot holes
- Thread starter Adagio
- Start date
How about the many many times Earth is left undefended, so it's up to the Enterprise to save it. It happened in TMP, with the paint barely finishing drying on her hull. TVH, although we could overlook this since the only other ship and only starbase the probe was shown to pass had their batteries drained.
The Enterprise was always the only ship in the quadrant. 
Earth does apparently have very poor defenses in the future. What about in Generations when Starfleet said that the Enterprise-B was the only ship available to tend to those ships caught in the nexus? You're telling me that this ship which isn't even fully equipped (no torpedoes, no tractor beam) is the only ship floating around the Sol system?
Earth does apparently have very poor defenses in the future. What about in Generations when Starfleet said that the Enterprise-B was the only ship available to tend to those ships caught in the nexus? You're telling me that this ship which isn't even fully equipped (no torpedoes, no tractor beam) is the only ship floating around the Sol system?Maybe Starfleet is much, much smaller than we've always been led to believe. I mean, in all the TOS movies we see, at most, five or so other Starfleet vessels. Maybe that's all there is! Every movie becomes a lot less ridiculous when one assumes this to be the case.
Well, they weren't really mind-fucked. They were born again. (Which you could argue is its own kind of "mind-fuck," but I won't go there.) This is still an interesting question though.
Sybok is an evangelical preacher. Think about it. He comes to you and sells you a world view that frees you of your psychological burdens. Then he asks you to come with him on his quest to find God. You accept, because this man has rescued you from misery. Surely he must be on to something!
But now, the God he promised you is a fraud. So what do you believe in now? Everyone looks pretty happy at that cocktail party with the Klingons, but I'd have to imagine there were a lot of very depressed people on the Enterprise at that point. Maybe they became Scientologists after that.
He did. But Picard wouldn't have grounds for arresting Soran before he started his criminal career. And once he started it, Picard would have no idea where to find him, or how to stop him from handing over the starkiller to the Duras sisters.
At most, Picard could go and have a nice chat with the younger Soran, suggesting alternative courses of action. Which wouldn't stop the Duras sisters from being a menace, but at least they'd be a manageable one.
Convicts got to Australia on ships. It was made damn sure they didn't have access to a ship, though. Nimbus III, for all the high-falutin' talk, looks and smells like a penal settlement of some sort; the tripartite deal on settling it probably includes clauses or corollaries against providing the settlers with a means of escape, not out of malice of the treaty participants towards the settlers, but out of malice of the treaty participants towards each other.
We don't know when Sybok got to that planet. Perhaps shortly before the opening credits; perhaps ten years prior? For all we know, he mistook Nimbus III for his paradise planet originally, this being his sixteenth such mistake in a row...
It was pretty clear that neither Klingon nor Romulan ship would do; Sybok would be dead, drawn and quartered before he could work his mumbo-jumbo with a shipful of these guys and gals.
If Sybok himself is to be trusted, these people would be under no spell other than a geas to their liberator. With the liberator dead, they'd just go on with their lives, albeit liberated now.
This happened exactly once.
Two ships were shown in exterior view as being defeated; two were seen in interior view (SF HQ comm screen) as being defeated; dialogue specified that five starships and a host of lesser vessels had been neutralized before the Probe reached Earth.
Which is perfectly realistic: some poor NYPD foot patrol is always the only one in the city block. Backup might arrive in a few minutes; in space, it just takes longer.The Enterprise was always the only ship in the quadrant.
She's an Excelsior class vessel, and those are famed for one thing: being superfast for their time. It's perfectly possible that local SAR cutters would be so much slower than the E-B as to be beneath consideration for a rescue op that takes place some distance from Earth (three lightyears to be exact - that's more than halfway to the next star!).
Another ship might be available that would reach the destination 2.2 hours later. Fine for some things, not for saving the lives of the El-Aurians.
So what? It wasn't that promise that liberated them and made them happy; it was the Vulcan thing he did to them without applying a price tag. Too bad that the Messiah is dead, and too bad he was dead wrong about the God thing. But hey, we're alive, we're liberated, and perhaps it's a good thing we got rid of that asshole who tried to apply a price tag after the sale was already made?
Timo Saloniemi
But if that were the case, then Sybok would have just held the Federation ambassador hostage. But he doesn't do that. He takes all three of them hostage. He does this in the hopes that at least one of their respective governments will mount a rescue. He doesn't seem to care if it's the Klingons, Feds, or Rommies--he's just hedging his bets!
He takes the entire Paradise City hostage, then converts it to his willing private army. How could he not take the Klingon and Romulan representatives "captive"?
He seems to understand that if Klingons or Romulans arrive first, his plan fails. It's a risk he is prepared to take, perhaps because he knows neither Klingons nor Romulans actually care enough about Nimbus III to react in any way. Indeed, Klingons only attend because a lone and somewhat rogue warrior decides this is a good time to kill Kirk and gather brownie points...
Timo Saloniemi
He seems to understand that if Klingons or Romulans arrive first, his plan fails. It's a risk he is prepared to take, perhaps because he knows neither Klingons nor Romulans actually care enough about Nimbus III to react in any way. Indeed, Klingons only attend because a lone and somewhat rogue warrior decides this is a good time to kill Kirk and gather brownie points...
Timo Saloniemi
Star Trek V's got plot holes aplenty, but I don't think the "starship on Nimbus III" thing is one of them.
It doesn't beg the question…
http://begthequestion.info/
I'm also thinking that Star Trek V took the same view as TOS in that starships were special. In later series, every ship seems to be a starship, but in the old days, you had to be a special kind of captain to run one:
"He commands not just a space ship, proconsul, but a starship. A very special vessel and crew."
A starship would have the warp capacity to get to the center of the galaxy (yeah yeah, I know about that particular plot hole) where a freighter or planet hopper would not. And just because people reached Nimbus III doesn't mean their transportation remained in orbit forever. Of course there are no starships on Nimbus III, why would there be? They're too important to go ferrying people around, so transports got people there.
You're assuming his plan was to go to Nimbus III to put his scheme into action. Why make that assumption? More likely, Sybok was going from planet to planet on whatever transportation he could find. He reached Nimbus III and discovered the situation in Paradise City and realized he now had a good chance of getting his hands on a starship. He may have tried talking or "pain easing" people to take him to the barrier, but he had no followers back then. Sybok knows he needs muscle to backstop him, especially once he realized only a starship could get him there and breach the barrier. He just happened to luck out that the Enterprise was the ship sent and had a skeleton crew and a bunch of tech problems. At that point, Sybok would call it a miracle.
Why doesn't Sybok get to a starbase and commandeer a ship? Because the straggly, laughing Vulcan would stick out like a stinky sore thumb. And a starbase would have gobs of security and safeguards. Sure, a decent starship should as well, but the chances of securing a starship when there's only one in orbit of a backwater planet are better than getting one from an advanced base filled with them.
You want plot holes?
Why did Sybok assume the Enterprise wouldn't just beam up the hostages? He had no idea the transporters were down and there was no mention of a shield or a scrambler. Finding Klingon and Romulan lifesigns would be easy enough.
Who was Sybok talking to when he said "a federation starship" when Chekov radioed down? There was nobody next to him.
Why did Kirk and company just let Sybok and his people on a shuttlecraft and start flying to the Enterprise? Sybok didn't begin easing pain until after they landed in the shuttle bay.
Why didn't Sulu and Chekov didn't realize Uhura would be able to see that they were not in a blizzard?
Why didn't Scotty didn't see that damned beam? Or why did he walk away from the transporter console to greet Spock and McCoy instead of just beaming up Kirk? Yeah, there was another guy there, but aside from getting Doohan away from an exploding prop, it just looked stupid.
Why did Shatner think the decks were numbered like a skyscraper, from the ground up? (never mind how many there were)
How did Spock get ABOVE them to fly down with his gravity boots and let Kirk and McCoy climb all those levels when it wasn't necessary?
Why was there only one Klingon ship going after Kirk when he was the most hated Starfleet Captain in the galaxy? Wouldn't a bunch of them want some glory? And where were the Romulans? I guess they just didn't care.
How does the turbolift go from the hanger deck to the bridge in seconds and only by going straight up?
Why is Kirk coy about "landing plan B" when it wasn't a ruse to gain control? Why not just say "set up the barricades, Scotty, we're gonna gun the engines and bring us in manually"? Also, barricades? Made of netting? No force fields?
Why would shooting Sybok in the chest kill him? And why not just fire before he reached Spock, like in the balls or something? Or, Spock, try neck pinching him for chrissakes.
Why didn't the big 3 figure out the message being tapped was "stand back" before it got all the way to the final letter?
And so on. Most of these were done for the sake of humor, but that's even worse than just not thinking it though.
I do love this movie, though. :-)
It doesn't beg the question…
http://begthequestion.info/
I'm also thinking that Star Trek V took the same view as TOS in that starships were special. In later series, every ship seems to be a starship, but in the old days, you had to be a special kind of captain to run one:
"He commands not just a space ship, proconsul, but a starship. A very special vessel and crew."
A starship would have the warp capacity to get to the center of the galaxy (yeah yeah, I know about that particular plot hole) where a freighter or planet hopper would not. And just because people reached Nimbus III doesn't mean their transportation remained in orbit forever. Of course there are no starships on Nimbus III, why would there be? They're too important to go ferrying people around, so transports got people there.
You're assuming his plan was to go to Nimbus III to put his scheme into action. Why make that assumption? More likely, Sybok was going from planet to planet on whatever transportation he could find. He reached Nimbus III and discovered the situation in Paradise City and realized he now had a good chance of getting his hands on a starship. He may have tried talking or "pain easing" people to take him to the barrier, but he had no followers back then. Sybok knows he needs muscle to backstop him, especially once he realized only a starship could get him there and breach the barrier. He just happened to luck out that the Enterprise was the ship sent and had a skeleton crew and a bunch of tech problems. At that point, Sybok would call it a miracle.
Why doesn't Sybok get to a starbase and commandeer a ship? Because the straggly, laughing Vulcan would stick out like a stinky sore thumb. And a starbase would have gobs of security and safeguards. Sure, a decent starship should as well, but the chances of securing a starship when there's only one in orbit of a backwater planet are better than getting one from an advanced base filled with them.
You want plot holes?
Why did Sybok assume the Enterprise wouldn't just beam up the hostages? He had no idea the transporters were down and there was no mention of a shield or a scrambler. Finding Klingon and Romulan lifesigns would be easy enough.
Who was Sybok talking to when he said "a federation starship" when Chekov radioed down? There was nobody next to him.
Why did Kirk and company just let Sybok and his people on a shuttlecraft and start flying to the Enterprise? Sybok didn't begin easing pain until after they landed in the shuttle bay.
Why didn't Sulu and Chekov didn't realize Uhura would be able to see that they were not in a blizzard?
Why didn't Scotty didn't see that damned beam? Or why did he walk away from the transporter console to greet Spock and McCoy instead of just beaming up Kirk? Yeah, there was another guy there, but aside from getting Doohan away from an exploding prop, it just looked stupid.
Why did Shatner think the decks were numbered like a skyscraper, from the ground up? (never mind how many there were)
How did Spock get ABOVE them to fly down with his gravity boots and let Kirk and McCoy climb all those levels when it wasn't necessary?
Why was there only one Klingon ship going after Kirk when he was the most hated Starfleet Captain in the galaxy? Wouldn't a bunch of them want some glory? And where were the Romulans? I guess they just didn't care.
How does the turbolift go from the hanger deck to the bridge in seconds and only by going straight up?
Why is Kirk coy about "landing plan B" when it wasn't a ruse to gain control? Why not just say "set up the barricades, Scotty, we're gonna gun the engines and bring us in manually"? Also, barricades? Made of netting? No force fields?
Why would shooting Sybok in the chest kill him? And why not just fire before he reached Spock, like in the balls or something? Or, Spock, try neck pinching him for chrissakes.
Why didn't the big 3 figure out the message being tapped was "stand back" before it got all the way to the final letter?
And so on. Most of these were done for the sake of humor, but that's even worse than just not thinking it though.
I do love this movie, though. :-)
Aww come on!
D'oh?
Aww come on!
Granted, it's not a plot hole, but he looked to the side and said it. Nobody there.
is not an answer.Vulcan. Heart not in chest. Shot wouldn't necessarily kill him.
Aww come on!
Granted, it's not a plot hole, but he looked to the side and said it. Nobody there.
Let me guess. You've never ever talked to yourself in your life.
Aww come on!
Granted, it's not a plot hole, but he looked to the side and said it. Nobody there.
Let me guess. You've never ever talked to yourself in your life.
Oh, I talk to myself all the time. I just don't turn my head as if commenting to someone in the room. It was pretty obvious that Sybok at least thought we was talking to someone other than himself.
I do that some times, so... in fact - lol - I just did it.
That list was trying way too hard.
Nevertheless, I have a lazy morning today, so...
Of course, it would have helped if the numbers had merely been numbers, rather than explicit DECK numbers on foot-high lettering...
Timo Saloniemi
Nowadays, it pretty much does. It's just shorthand for "begets the question", like "underway" is acceptable shorthand for "under weigh" despite the two expressions describing completely different concepts for indicating that the ship is moving.
Well, the previous movie explicitly did that, so it would only make sense for ST5 to follow the established trend.
Why do you think the assumed this? His plan already involved turning the hostages into his followers; Kirk rescuing them would have led to Kirk being subjugated by them one way or another.
That's how the "terrorist takes hostages and coerces the heroes" thing works. And not just in Hollywood.
They were having a bit of fun. Why would they care?
That's actually a good point - but we might surmise Scotty was worried whether the transporter would be capable of beaming anybody up alive and well, and wanted to check on his two guinea pigs before beaming up the guy who paid his salary.
Because that's what 99% of the audience would expect to see in an elevator shaft.
Of course, it would have helped if the numbers had merely been numbers, rather than explicit DECK numbers on foot-high lettering...
That's exactly what Sybok was postulating, so it's a desirable and logical plot feature. And probably the percentage of brainless hothead skippers in the Klingon fighting force is lower than one'd think, leading to there being fairly few such skippers within intercept range of Kirk's flight.
Uh, how does the shuttle go from the surface to the ship in seconds, and only by going straight up? It's called "cuts"... Which we did get in the turbolift scene.
Kirk was clearly trying to gain control. Scotty was just too thick to understand his "wink wink, nudge nudge" message.
Why not? It's hardly necessary to hit him exactly in the heart or anything like that to get the lethal effect. From the looks, these guns were shooting pebbles the size of paintball ammo, albeit at low velocities. No shockwave kill, then, but plenty of internal bouncing damage.
His brother brother? He just wasn't motivated.
You mean several seconds after it got to the final letter? That's how most people who know a little Morse read Morse, especially if they don't have paper and pencil at hand... Morse really is an endless source of misunderstanding-based humor in the real world!
Timo Saloniemi
Actually, we see the turbolift both close and (begin to) open with no cut during an extremely short ride. Sure makes you wonder why the turbolift takes so long sometimes.
ST11 also had a sooper-dooper short turbolift ride. Subtle homage, JJ!
Not really, they kinda came out pretty easily. Don't get me wrong, I love this film. They all have questionable points. And I absolutely admit a lot of them were minor.
5000 people saying the wrong thing doesn't make it right. No point in have grammatical rule if we change then due to popular demand or misuse.
Why wouldn't he? He knew the ship had transporters. And Kirk WOULD have used them if they worked (and if they could pick them out), that was established when Scotty said it couldn't happen.
For the same reason they didn't want to admit the helm officer and navigator were lost: "you'd never live it down." Chekov's expression showed he thought Sulu's excuse was ridiculous. And Sulu was just as thrilled to have Uhura cover his ass.
I think the audience is smart enough to go with it if it was numbered correctly.
Okay, I'll buy that .
See Tosk's post. If they had cuts, I wouldn't have mentioned it, being well aware of the visual shortcuts films take, since they are (mostly) not in real time. This scene, however, was.
So the guy who sets his ship to explode when one guy from Cheron takes over just lets Sybok gain access to the ship? Hey, it's not like I'm the first person to point this out. Kirk could have been forced to bring them up without looking like he just let's them. However…
Then I guess I am too, since it didn't come across that way to me. However, okay, I can see Kirk overselling the idea to let him do something so he could have the chance to stop them while still getting back to the ship. Kirk would pull a stunt like that. But I'd have loved a couple of small lines of dialog in the brig to clarify it, if indeed that was what they were going for, because it still looks like Kirk didn't put up much of a fight until he and Sybok scuffled in the hanger bay. Like McCoy could have said "and why are you yelling at Spock? He's not the one who just let them aboard the ship." Then another line or two of response.
That made me smile. So okay.
Most of my points were made with a light heart. Any problems don't dampen my enjoyment of the film. Then again, I like all of them. I'm a forgiving sort.
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