In the Third Doctor story The Ambassadors of Death, set around the 1970s, the British space programme successfully launches a manned flight to Mars. I believe there are references to British astronauts travelling quite far out in space in the Fourth Doctor serial The Android Invasion, set a couple of years later. But in The Christmas Invasion, which takes place in the early 2000s, isn't the Guinevere 1 probe referred to as Britain's first trip to Mars? It's been a while since I last saw it, mind you. Should we just regard this as a minor error on the writers' part?
British space exploration in the Whoniverse
- Thread starter EJA
- Start date
Going by how the new series seems to work things, put simply "Ambassadors" as an event wasn't time-locked. Subsequent manipulations of space-time erased that particular event from history, though of course the Doctor remembers it even though Liz Shaw may not. Likewise, while in "World War Three" the Doctor remembers Harriet Jones' ascension to power as the beginning of a golden age for the UK, her subsequent downfall in "The Christmas Invasion" invalidates this.
Not that the Doctor, Rose, or her family really care or would know the difference anyway... The point is that certain events like these are non-critical enough to all of space and time that they can be played with, erased, and re-done all the time. These events DID happen when the Doctor experienced them, but at some later point they were un-done and re-written into a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey... Stuff.
Mark
Not that the Doctor, Rose, or her family really care or would know the difference anyway... The point is that certain events like these are non-critical enough to all of space and time that they can be played with, erased, and re-done all the time. These events DID happen when the Doctor experienced them, but at some later point they were un-done and re-written into a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey... Stuff.
Mark
It's not a writer's error, it's something that happened (in Who, and was maybe covered up, and the current writers gloss over it so that contemporary Eath is contemporary Earth. But it's not ignored:. The recent 11th Apollo 23 includes lots of references to the British space programme and how its technology was picked up by other countries. And the mention of Bernard in Remebrance of the Daleks provides a backplot on why Britain was a (failed) spaceflight pioneer.
Oh, not another continuity discussion? Doctor Who changes to fit the times. Ambassadors of Death was about a future British mission to Mars. The Christmas Invasion was about a future British mission to Mars.
If you're trying to find some line of dialogue to make both episodes fit into a nice little package you're going to be disappointed.
If you're trying to find some line of dialogue to make both episodes fit into a nice little package you're going to be disappointed.
Unless they were UNIT sponsered programs. Going by SJA's this season, they have no problem building and maintaining their own rockets, and even a moonbase.
Speaking of spaceship, I always loved The Invasion, how the Russians could switch out a manned space capsule with a nuclear warhead in just a couple of hours.
Speaking of spaceship, I always loved The Invasion, how the Russians could switch out a manned space capsule with a nuclear warhead in just a couple of hours.
I don't know about anyone else here, but I love the idea that Britain had a space programme in the 70s-80s capable of launching manned missions to other planets in the Whoniverse. That's why I wouldn't really like to see it written out. But then again, Star Trek has just as many of these kinds of errors when you think about it...
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No, but neither do they use any language that refers to previous missions. Guenevere One is depicted as being a huge breakthrough for the British space program, which it certainly would be if it were real. So the implication in "The Christmas Invasion" was that the history of the British space program had followed a course more akin to real-world history. I'd just write off the bits about previous British missions to other planets as having been written out of history by the Time War, but that's just me; the lines in "The Christmas Invasion" are ambiguous enough that you can squint and fit it all together if you want.
Spaceflights were regular, with routine Earth sensor missions happening often, and Moon and MArs missions more rarely (I think the reference to Mars might only be in the novelisation). And it's all under the control of the ISC - International Space Control.
In other words, variant reality!
Well yeah, and it's the Doctor's presence that directly causes her downfall. His regeneration energy brings the Sycorax to Earth, which results in Harriet blowing up their ship, and the Doctor's sabotage of her political career.
Without his involvement, it probably is a 'golden age'.
AND since Harriet Jones was supposed to stay Prime Minister but The Doctor removed her from power, this created an opening which allowed The Master to become Prime Minister.
Yep, the power vaccuum let in the Master, and Green from CoE. Of course in fairness to 10, given the Archangel network it might be that Saxon could have won anyway.
Maybe.
On the other hand, had Harriet Jones not been overthrown, perhaps the Battle of Canary Wharf would have gone differently. Maybe she would have put Jack in charge of Torchwood One instead of only having him operate Torchwood Three? That done, no Jack to run after the TARDIS at the beginning of "Utopia," nothing to prompt the TARDIS to run to the Year 100 Trillion, and nothing to prompt Professor Yana to open his fob watch and revert to the Master and steal the TARDIS. So maybe the Master never would have escaped his exile.
Yeah, but maybe a longer Harriet Jones ministry would have seen her decide to move against Torchwood in force, irrelevant of Royal Prerogative. Wouldn't be the first time an elected politician forced the Monarchy to give up one of its powers.
Yeah, but maybe a longer Harriet Jones ministry would have seen her decide to move against Torchwood in force, irrelevant of Royal Prerogative. Wouldn't be the first time an elected politician forced the Monarchy to give up one of its powers.
Well, the Royal Perogative has been entirely in the hands of the PM for ages. The Queen just signs off on the documents the PM sends her...
Yeah, but maybe a longer Harriet Jones ministry would have seen her decide to move against Torchwood in force, irrelevant of Royal Prerogative. Wouldn't be the first time an elected politician forced the Monarchy to give up one of its powers.
Well, the Royal Perogative has been entirely in the hands of the PM for ages. The Queen just signs off on the documents the PM sends her...
In real life, yes. In the Whoniverse, the Torchwood Institute seemed to be an exception of sorts. But perhaps Prime Minister Harriet Jones would have wrestled control of Torchwood away from Yvonne Hartman and thus prevented the Battle of Canary Wharf in the first place.