Afghanistan is probably just as unjustified right now.
Will it be ever possible to have long term space travel?
- Thread starter ReadyAndWilling
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^Did you just say that the U.S. Census Bureau's website is a fantasy and a blog?Or are you saying that only sites that you use provide factual information and everyone else's sites are invalid?
Actually if you read it carefully. I clearly stated that MY website wasn't fantasy. I also clearly stated that I checked to make sure that MY website wasn't a blog.
I also clearly stated that just because her website says something doesn't mean it more correct than the one that I look at.
Next time instead of just skimming through looking for something to correct or comment on, read first.
Same way it ALWAYS happens for under-developed growth industries: massive amounts of government subsidies.
Strictly speaking, even CANCER can generate profit if you go out of your way to do so. But neither is considered a profitable situation, since the general result of war is destruction rather than productivity.
True... OTOH, except for a very few well-positioned firms, it wasn't all that profitable either.
The thing about space resources is that it has potential to eventually become INDEPENDENTLY profitable apart from government subsidies. And here's a very real possibility to keep in mind: two metals relatively rare on Earth--platinum and titanium--exist in relatively high concentrations on the moon. Titanium is hard to refine on Earth because it reacts with oxygen at high temperatures, so a very complicated and expensive process is used to extract titanium from ore. An alternative process can be used to convert titanium ore DIRECTLY into a titanium-platinum alloy using high temperature and hydrogen; unfortunately, this process requires an almost perfect vacuum and rather generous amounts of platinum.
Titanium-platinum alloy is one of those nifty "shape memory" materials: once you heat it and cast it into a specific shape, it will return to that shape whenever it's temperature is raised above a certain point, no matter how many ways you twist and distort it. And because titanium platinum and natural vacuum all exist together on the moon, then Ti-Pt alloys would be an incredibly valuable material--just by virtue of its properties--that would be cheaper to produce on the moon than on Earth. After that, it's just a matter of logistics: it costs about $4000/kg to send anything into space. Assuming you can get the government to pickup the tab for the initial mining operation, all a company has to pay for is the cost of returning materials to Earth. If 3-ton capsule can rendezvous with a space tug in orbit and then return 12 tons of payload to Earth, that means it would cost $1000/kg to recover that lunar-manufactured alloy. Compare this to the price of, say, Gold, which is currently about $850/kg.
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say that ten times fast.
OK let me put what I said in simple terms.
I care more about the ecosystem being destroyed than what the destroyed land grows. Understand now?
At least Iraq has oil as a decent enough reason. Afghanistan doesn't even have that really. There's probably less terrorists in Afghanistan than Iraq right now. Why exactly are we still in both? Clinton wanted to invade Iraq also and he thought they had WMD. So I'm not buying it was a one party thing. Both parties have spent a pointless decade in the middle east.
Well, I don't know where you get your info from.
But to my knowledge, Afghan is the only place we should have gone, because terrorists are there. I can say that there is probably more terrorist in Afghan than there is in Iraq. I don't know how you get some 3,000 deaths for oil, is a decent reason?(Not counting the civilian death toll from mistakes made by our soldiers) It wasn't one party your correct with that, but remember Bush didn't wait for congress approval.
But to my knowledge, Afghan is the only place we should have gone, because terrorists are there. I can say that there is probably more terrorist in Afghan than there is in Iraq. I don't know how you get some 3,000 deaths for oil, is a decent reason?(Not counting the civilian death toll from mistakes made by our soldiers) It wasn't one party your correct with that, but remember Bush didn't wait for congress approval.
If only that last clause wasn't there it would be so beautiful. Why any business would leap at the chance of reaping vast profits from something paid for by taxpayers.
If a private company sets out to go to the moon, to drill out the huge titanium deposit, they in the beginning would be throwing out money, but eventually after years they would be able to make a profit. Then once that success is seen, you'll probably see governments doing the same thing, along with more private companies.
Now that private company who does it first has to be very well off, but its certainly possible. Heck it could be Sojourner's favorite space company, SpaceX. Who knows, I don't know what or how many private companies that do things like SpaceX.
Now that private company who does it first has to be very well off, but its certainly possible. Heck it could be Sojourner's favorite space company, SpaceX. Who knows, I don't know what or how many private companies that do things like SpaceX.
I don't think going to Afghan was a mistake. Staying there is the mistake. One of the main guys for the Obama admin earlier this year said there are less than 50 Al-Queda members in Afghanistan. It's a joke to stay there in the long term. Just like it's a joke to stay in Iraq. Vietnam was stupid for many of the same reasons. And that was really a democrat lead thing.
Anyway back to the subject.
Titanium-platinum alloy is one of those nifty "shape memory" materials: once you heat it and cast it into a specific shape, it will return to that shape whenever it's temperature is raised above a certain point, no matter how many ways you twist and distort it. And because titanium platinum and natural vacuum all exist together on the moon, then Ti-Pt alloys would be an incredibly valuable material--just by virtue of its properties--that would be cheaper to produce on the moon than on Earth. After that, it's just a matter of logistics: it costs about $4000/kg to send anything into space. Assuming you can get the government to pickup the tab for the initial mining operation, all a company has to pay for is the cost of returning materials to Earth. If 3-ton capsule can rendezvous with a space tug in orbit and then return 12 tons of payload to Earth, that means it would cost $1000/kg to recover that lunar-manufactured alloy. Compare this to the price of, say, Gold, which is currently about $850/kg.
Interesting. I think the only way this happens is if private companies get the technology to start. But I don't see it happening soon. Again the theme of this thread we have to develop the technology in the private sector. Having governments do this stuff is good but they won't be in it for a profit which is probably needed the most to keep things like this going.
No company on its own would ever do something so suicidal. I've said all along that solar system exploration will be a partnership between nations, since nations are the only entities large enough to absorb the cost. Having stumped up all the outlay, they will most certainly expect to reap the rewards. The only fly in this ointment is humanity's irritating habit of declaring independence as soon as they're settled on new turf (metaphorically speaking).
If nations themselves can assume the cost(even though the ones that are space going all have deficits), why can't a bundle of companies do the same?
Each company gets a specific piece of the pie for the work they put into it.
I can see your point, people will want to be separate if they are long-term stay. However, a nation has the power, the power being food, water, and re-supply. So I think that(like always) employees will eventually ask for higher wages and maybe better ways to relax.
Each company gets a specific piece of the pie for the work they put into it.
I can see your point, people will want to be separate if they are long-term stay. However, a nation has the power, the power being food, water, and re-supply. So I think that(like always) employees will eventually ask for higher wages and maybe better ways to relax.
Simply put the cost is too much. It's also the reason why we are basically putting our space program in the back burner as a nation right now.
Governments have had a long history of being real bad at controlling checkbooks. That's why almost every government that has ever existed has eventually fallen. Seriously any real future travel has to come from the private sector.
^Did you just say that the U.S. Census Bureau's website is a fantasy and a blog?
Actually if you read it carefully. I clearly stated that MY website wasn't fantasy. I also clearly stated that I checked to make sure that MY website wasn't a blog.
I also clearly stated that just because her website says something doesn't mean it more correct than the one that I look at.
Next time instead of just skimming through looking for something to correct or comment on, read first.
Yes, and the way you say it is implying that everyone elses website is fantasy or a blog. Including the U.S. Census bureau. It's not my reading that needs help. It's your posts.
^Did you just say that the U.S. Census Bureau's website is a fantasy and a blog?
Actually if you read it carefully. I clearly stated that MY website wasn't fantasy. I also clearly stated that I checked to make sure that MY website wasn't a blog.
I also clearly stated that just because her website says something doesn't mean it more correct than the one that I look at.
Next time instead of just skimming through looking for something to correct or comment on, read first.
Yes, and the way you say it is implying that everyone elses website is fantasy or a blog. Including the U.S. Census bureau. It's not my reading that needs help. It's your posts.
Well, try this, don't take it upon yourself to say that I am implying anything. Also don't assume that I am implying anything(I am quite honest and upfront, I don't imply anything)
[Also take apart the word ASSUME, theres a hidden message.]
By the mere fact that I also stated the calculations are both similar, would kinda mean that I don't think her site is a blog or fantasy, because it would mean that I was saying mine was also a blog and fantasy.
Try reading harder next time Bud.
I said which website I was drawing my information from, and provided a link to the same. I can't help but wonder about the name of your non-fantasy website, the one you're extracting your opinion from. If you don't wish to provide it's identity, that's okay and perhaps understandable.
If the land itself was destroyed, then nothing would grow there. There a fallacy in your logic.
Do you also bemoan the lost bio-diversity of the vanished European forest primeval? Shall we seize to grow grains on the American great plains, and permit them to return to wild grass? The fact is the Amazon rain forest isn't a world bio-diversity reserve or resource, nor does it belong to all mankind, it belongs to Brazil and Peru and in lesser measure to seven other countries. Just as the American rain forests (like the one near where I live in Seattle) entirely belong to America.
If you want there to be more rain forests, buy some property and plant one.
Actual I said the war in Iraq was against some very bad people.
.
Take more care with the language in your posts and you won't lead people to wrong conclusions, "Bud". When you type a sentence like "I clearly stated that MY website wasn't fantasy", by stressing "my" it implies that everyone elses website IS fantasy. Sorry, that's just how it reads, no ASSumption needed. (see what I mean?Actually if you read it carefully. I clearly stated that MY website wasn't fantasy. I also clearly stated that I checked to make sure that MY website wasn't a blog.
I also clearly stated that just because her website says something doesn't mean it more correct than the one that I look at.
Next time instead of just skimming through looking for something to correct or comment on, read first.
Yes, and the way you say it is implying that everyone elses website is fantasy or a blog. Including the U.S. Census bureau. It's not my reading that needs help. It's your posts.
Well, try this, don't take it upon yourself to say that I am implying anything. Also don't assume that I am implying anything(I am quite honest and upfront, I don't imply anything)
[Also take apart the word ASSUME, theres a hidden message.]
By the mere fact that I also stated the calculations are both similar, would kinda mean that I don't think her site is a blog or fantasy, because it would mean that I was saying mine was also a blog and fantasy.
Try reading harder next time Bud.
)I will complement you though, your writing has improved alot since you started posting here.
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