Will it be ever possible to have long term space travel?

[Gaith]

I don't mean to troll, but to be perfectly honest, KJbushway, your reply makes me fear for your emotional health. I sincerely hope that you're okay, or on the path to okay if not yet there.

That said, on the more likely chance that you think your words to be sound, I'll just go ahead and briefly tear them apart anyhow.

4. women of all sorts
Right because the Obesity rate is going even higher in all kinds of ladies. So you can wait here for your Victoria secret model, that of course would be so into you.

If the obesity rate of American women is causing you so much distress, I'll happily bet all the money in my bank account against all the money in your bank account that safe and effective weight control pills will be developed long before viable interstellar travel methods. And a future Earth in which pretty much any woman who wants a supermodel's body can easily acquire one is a future Earth I look forward to being a part of! My ticket for that flight to distant stars is all yours, hombre.

Dangerous smog filled cities and over-crowding of suburban.
Dangerous city gangs, suburban gangs, and drug cartels.
Over-use of non-renewable resources and dangerous toxic chemicals being dumped in lots that become a housing development in the future, which cause the children and adults to die.

So you either live in Costa Rica/Hawaii/New Zealand and only date skinny chicks or plan to do so in the near future, right? Because according to your semi-paranoid post, that's pretty much your only chance at living a good life here on Starship Earth.

 

[KJbushway]

I don't mean to troll, but to be perfectly honest, KJbushway, your reply makes me fear for your emotional health. I sincerely hope that you're okay, or on the path to okay if not yet there.

That said, on the more likely chance that you think your words to be sound, I'll just go ahead and briefly tear them apart anyhow.

4. women of all sorts
Right because the Obesity rate is going even higher in all kinds of ladies. So you can wait here for your Victoria secret model, that of course would be so into you.

If the obesity rate of American women is causing you so much distress, I'll happily bet all the money in my bank account against all the money in your bank account that safe and effective weight control pills will be developed long before viable interstellar travel methods. And a future Earth in which pretty much any woman who wants a supermodel's body can easily acquire one is a future Earth I look forward to being a part of! My ticket for that flight to distant stars is all yours, hombre.

Dangerous smog filled cities and over-crowding of suburban.
Dangerous city gangs, suburban gangs, and drug cartels.
Over-use of non-renewable resources and dangerous toxic chemicals being dumped in lots that become a housing development in the future, which cause the children and adults to die.

So you either live in Costa Rica/Hawaii/New Zealand and only date skinny chicks or plan to do so in the near future, right? Because according to your semi-paranoid post, that's pretty much your only chance at living a good life here on Starship Earth.

Well let me go through your comments.
You started with viewing woman as objects and I responded, I am sorry if you can't get the meaning behind it. I will actually bet that I have meant and got along with more girls than you, why becuase I don't state that they are peices of meat.
My comments were true, about starship Earth. I am sorry that you choose to not accept the truth that this place isn't exactly a beacon of greatness. Now I am actually an happy person, I believe that if humans get past their self-ish nature that Earth would be better off.
I can pretty much say that since weight pills have been around since the early 1990's that if they are not safe by now(which since its not natural fat burn, its not safe), they won't be safe in my lifetime or yours, and I will out life you.
No I actually live in GA, though I don't have the same thinking pattern as the rednecks I live near(who also view woman as objects). Now I like girls that are healthy. Skinny skinny girls are just as un-healthy as over-weight girls(if you can see ribs, too skinny) Sorry dude, but an 18 year old has a better grasp of reality than you. OR maybe this is the way you talk to get attention, in which case, thats a better way for people to view you than a man who thinks Earth is just a huge funland and woman are here for his viewing, but not here to work beside him, have intellectual conversations with, or even be an equal.

 

[KJbushway]

QUOTE=T'Girl;4557383]

Population going down globally? A billion people here a billion people there says otherwise.

According to the US Census Bureau clock on world population, as of 21:37 UTC today the world population is 6,884,263,995, and is projected to increase by 76 million over the next year. When you compare that 76 million figure to the almost hysterical population increases the world saw during the second half of the twentieth century, Deckerd is right, the increase is definitely slowing and in many parts of the world the population hasn't just leveled off, but has begun to decrease. Some nations in Europe have increased immigration to control the rate of decrease, even Japan is considering doing the same.

If it were not for illegal immigration, America's population would be steady. With a one person increase (birth or legal immigrant) every twelve seconds and one death every twelve seconds.

It will increase far more than 76 million, the records I looked at said that it will increase to 9 billlion, within the next year and 1/2. Just about 6 billion too much. Immigrant happens becuase the qualitie of life in their home isn't good, so if everyone goes to a good place, that good place will become crowded and eventaully standard of living will go down. Theres even a list of the most unhappy places to live, The us ranks high and thats not a good thing on this list.

Where are you getting your information? Glenn Beck's website? Sarah Palin's website? Chrisitine O'Donnell's website?

http://www.glennbeck.com seem to be concentrating more on government finance that population numbers, and plugging his latest book.

http://www.facebook.com/sarahpalin is spending some time today ribbing the president on his mistaken claim that the US has 57 states. (LOL), also plugging her latest book.

http://www.sarahpac.com continues to raise money to remove said president. (any amount will help)
http://christine2010.com is basically shutdown.

Or not, don't both of those items involve cutting down trees?

Like everything in the US newspapers and magazines are over produced, one person not picking it up won't slow down production(another problem). But Deckerd needs to read something, she is like Glenn Beck in a way, she says a lot but 90% of it is BS.

Careful now, or the worldwide conspiracy theory on global warming will be trotted out.

Not just in the Amazon Jungle, recently on a vacation on the Hawaiian island of Muai I watch the harvesting of sugar cane, they used the slash and burn method to harvest the crop, with the cane being collected after the fires die down. In the case of the Amazon Jungle, what is happening is that one type of plant (trees and bushes) are being replaced with another type of plant (food and forage). The Amazon river basin isn't being turned into desert, it is very lush and green. Lush and green with food.

I've been there on three occasions in my life, have you?

Global Warming is true in the sense that human activities have sped up the process by twenty fold. Congrats you've been to a part of the Rain forest more than an 18 year old who hasn't been to Florida and thats right below his state.
The rain forest whether you see it with your own eyes is decreasing in size, if the problem was fixed or was being worked on I would have any news on it, I do so that should tell you something. I never said it was turning into a desert, read before typing. I stated that due to global climate warming and over-use of land that deserts whether big or small is becoming common. The land after being used doesn't go back to the amazing rain forest that once was, it goes to being only able to support grass and some bushes.

 

[sojourner]

the records I looked at said that it will increase to 9 billlion, within the next year and 1/2.

You uh, might want to check that figure. An increase in earth's population of over 2 billion in the next year and a half is incorrect. Current world population is expected to hit 8 to 10 billion by 2050. Not 2012.

 

[KJbushway]

Yeah let me look at my history and go back to that website.

Yep your right, its supposed to go up to 7 billion by 2011.
2025 its will be 9.5 billion
2050 it will be 12 billion.

So I stand corrected. But over-crowding is still going to be around, which causes over-use of land and non-renewable resources.
But yes it does look like it will slow, but not stop.

Well, hell we're all supposed to die in 2012 anyway, so it will be manageable afterwards.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

If the notion of interstellar travel is nonsense - and it is - the idea that we can ever export population off of this planet at anywhere near the rate with which we breed is beyond preposterous.

The most ridiculous alternative proposal that human beings can seriously put forth for controlling population makes a thousand times more sense than building spaceships to take the surplus somewhere else.

 

[Gaith]

I can pretty much say that since weight pills have been around since the early 1990's that if they are not safe by now(which since its not natural fat burn, its not safe), they won't be safe in my lifetime or yours, and I will out life you.

Who's making the weird-ass, arbitrary predictions about the limits of future technology now?

 

[KJbushway]

I never put a limit on it, I stated it won't be in my lifetime or yours. which is what another 30-40 years for you? another 60-70 for me.
Now I always say you never know, but this time its safe to say that for now it won't be any safer than it was 3-4 decades ago. however, I believe that people wont need it in the future, as intelligence goes up so does reason. I believe that people will lead more healthy lives, which means eating healthy, being more active. I myself don't really follow that description, but the difference is, I am trying. I can't see myself turning vegan, though a raw diet is more healthy.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

If the notion of interstellar travel is nonsense - and it is - the idea that we can ever export population off of this planet at anywhere near the rate with which we breed is beyond preposterous.

Because transplanting them to artificial environments on the surface and/or undergrounds of the other 200+ moons and asteroids in the solar system is totally out of the question.

The most ridiculous alternative proposal that human beings can seriously put forth for controlling population makes a thousand times more sense than building spaceships to take the surplus somewhere else.

True, it would be far more efficient to just start a couple of wars or otherwise passively stop caring about world hunger to let the problem fix itself.

OTOH, exporting "undesirables" to lunar mining facilities all around the solar system would be a pretty effective way of accessing natural resources without risking the lives of anyone who'll be missed.

 

[KJbushway]

Damn.

 

[sojourner]

If the notion of interstellar travel is nonsense - and it is - the idea that we can ever export population off of this planet at anywhere near the rate with which we breed is beyond preposterous.

The most ridiculous alternative proposal that human beings can seriously put forth for controlling population makes a thousand times more sense than building spaceships to take the surplus somewhere else.

Immigration has never been about relieving population pressure. It's about escaping to a less populated area.

 

[Zeppster]

Yeah let me look at my history and go back to that website.

Yep your right, its supposed to go up to 7 billion by 2011.
2025 its will be 9.5 billion
2050 it will be 12 billion.

So I stand corrected. But over-crowding is still going to be around, which causes over-use of land and non-renewable resources.
But yes it does look like it will slow, but not stop.

Well, hell we're all supposed to die in 2012 anyway, so it will be manageable afterwards.

In 1985 there were a lot of people that thought there would be 10 billion people by 2000. Right now the world population is right at 7 billion. So yeah they kinda whiffed on that one. Projections like this are always way off. My guess is we will be around 10 billion about 100 years from now. Maybe more.

 

[Gaith]

I never put a limit on it, I stated it won't be in my lifetime or yours. which is what another 30-40 years for you? another 60-70 for me.

That's a stupid game; the only winning move is not to play.

 

[YARN]

If the notion of interstellar travel is nonsense - and it is

I agree about the silliness of exporting millions/billions off-world, but I don't see how interstellar travel is nonsense.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Because transplanting them to artificial environments on the surface and/or undergrounds of the other 200+ moons and asteroids in the solar system is totally out of the question.

Yes, it is.

In order to make any kind of difference at all, you are talking about moving billions of people off of the surface of the Earth into artificial environments created at the cost of the most enormous and complex engineering projects in human history, utilizing energy that you can't even calculate.

And you can't think of half a dozen more practical and humane ways of dealing with population concerns? Come on.

What is wrong with skiffy fans that some think this kind of thing passes even the most elementary tests of logic and feasibility?

Frankly, I think that people who are emotionally invested in the space program and fantasies of interstellar exploration are deliberately blind to all of the sensible reasons that most human beings put a much, much lower priority on it - and then the enthusiasts smugly tell one another that most people are just too dumb or shortsighted to "get it."

 

[KJbushway]

Yeah let me look at my history and go back to that website.

Yep your right, its supposed to go up to 7 billion by 2011.
2025 its will be 9.5 billion
2050 it will be 12 billion.

So I stand corrected. But over-crowding is still going to be around, which causes over-use of land and non-renewable resources.
But yes it does look like it will slow, but not stop.

Well, hell we're all supposed to die in 2012 anyway, so it will be manageable afterwards.

In 1985 there were a lot of people that thought there would be 10 billion people by 2000. Right now the world population is right at 7 billion. So yeah they kinda whiffed on that one. Projections like this are always way off. My guess is we will be around 10 billion about 100 years from now. Maybe more.

^ read the above comments, on the next page, it discusses the population increase. Definitely not a 100 years from now, becuase it projected the it will be 9 billlion in 2025 .

 

[sojourner]

^He did, he's saying the projections are off.

 

[KJbushway]

Yeah but both the one I looked at and T-girl looked at said that it would reach 10 billion around 2050. Now its an estimate, he could be right that it will actually reach 10 billion in a 100 yrs.

 

[T'Girl]

The rain forest whether you see it with your own eyes is decreasing in size, if the problem was fixed or was being worked on I would have any news on it, I do so that should tell you something.

Don't forget the new Belo Monte hydro-electric dam, which will be the world's third largest dam, two-thirds of it's 700 square kilometer reservoir will be on top of Amazon rain forest, oops.

The land after being used doesn't go back to the amazing rain forest that once was, it goes to being only able to support grass and some bushes.

Why would Brazilians want it to go back? It took a good deal of effort to turn that forest into productive farms and grazing land. However if you're concerned about ecology, part of the land that was formerly rain forest is used to produce sugar-cane, the sugar-cane (some) is converted into methanol and ethanol, over five billion gallons a year and increasing, nine out of ten new cars sold in Brazil are "flex-fuel" vehicles. Alcohol based fuels produce only three quarter the hydro-carbons, nitrogen oxides and carbon monoxide of petroleum based fuels. Less carbon dioxide is good right?

If you're concern about world population, former rain forest land generates massive global exports of agricultural products around the world, two-thirds of the former rain forest is used for livestock, a third of all global meat exports come from Brazil.

Yeah but both the one I looked at and T-girl looked at said that it would reach 10 billion around 2050.

Actual my source of information (US census bureau) says in 2050 the population will be more like nine and a quarter billion. With a annual increase worldwide of 42 million births, down from this coming year's 76 million birth increase. The main source for the 10 billion figure would seem to be the United Nations, please tell me you're not going to that fiction factory for any kind of "facts."

These next come from here; http://www.census.gov/ipc/www/idb/worldpop.php

2010...6.853.019.414
2020...7.597.238.738
2030...8.259.169.105
2040...8.819.679.806
2050...9,284.107.424

 

[stj]

The very expensive Biosphere 2 project failed. That is partly due to design flaws ignored in the interests of financial economy. Even the cheap version was horribly expensive. The lesson thus far is, we don't know how to build a self-sustaining habitat. A generation starship would qualify as such, and any crew and descendants would be sentenced to slow death. Any such habitat or ship is in the same category as a cheap method of interplanetary travel: Scientific speculation, good for science fiction but no practical use.

If people can't survive an interstellar journey, could frozen embryos? Currently we don't have enough skill to make machinery that could reliably function through several centuries of extreme cold and radiation exposure. Nor do we have the slightest idea how to program robots and computers to raise children, even if we had artificial wombs, which we don't.

Interstellar travel would only be feasible for potentially immortal artificial intelligences, when such things are devised. Whether such strange creatures would want to go to other stars is impossible to predict, however. People with indefinite lifespans could aspire to interstellar travel I suppose but they could develop serious cabin fever along the way.

Blue sky speculations about an end run around special relativity are fun, and good enough for scifi, but they aren't to be taken seriously. Interplanetary travel is feasible but financially impractical. Notions about using other planets and comets and asteroids for resources usually involve some far-fetched assumptions about the ability to gather and process miscellaneous stuff without cost and with the very convenient ability to make pretty much anything you want out of the stuff at hand.

For example, a comet can, supposedly, be mined to produce greenhouses and grow food. Chlorophyll requires magnesium, however, and I don't think every comet can be expected to contain unlimited amounts of magnesium, even in the trace amounts needed.

Waste products from the manufacturing process seem to be ignored in these scenarios as well. In space it takes energy to throw stuff away but having junk floating around can be downright hazardous.

Undesirables will be jailed, tortured, killed or exploited in the time honored and profitable fashions so well known for so many dreary ages of humanity. Expensively shooting them into space just isn't going to happen.