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Why'd we always blame the writer?

No one has bashed me personally, but I feel like even liking this show is like some kind of plague or something sometimes. Is it so wrong to enjoy a show as much as you guys seem to dislike components of it? Oh and just to clarify, this isn't me "Whining" I'm simply giving my opinion so I have no wish to be to told to "grow up" or anything contrive like that.
 
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I actually like a lot of elements of Love and Monsters. As I think I've said on here before, minus the potty humor and gross-out stuff with the Absorbaloff and the blowjob jokes, it's a good episode. I like the ELO stuff.

To be honest, I don't like it so much when Rose shows up, either. But I honestly like watching this one more than Fear Her, which I usually get confused with The Idiot Lantern.
 
No one has bashed me personally, but I feel like even liking this show is like some kind of plague or something sometimes. Is it so wrong to enjoy a show as much as you guys seem to dislike components of it? Oh and just to clarify, this isn't me "Whining" I'm simply giving my opinion so I have no wish to be to told to "grow up" or anything contrive like that.
I'm not going to tell you to grow up, but this victim mentality is completely unjustified. You're not on the side of the argument that usually attracts the insults around here.
 
Speaking as an actor who majored in theatre, I can certainly tell you that the success of any production is a combination of having good writing, good direction, and good performances (to say nothing of good sets, good lighting, good this, good that...).

And I think it's completely accurate to say that if you have bad direction, or bad acting, either or both can cause perfectly acceptable writing to sound horrid. Just imagine how stupid Aaron Sorkin's writing would sound coming out of the mouth of, say, Paris Hilton. And conversely, sometimes good acting can salvage -- or at least make acceptable -- bad writing. A prime example would be Ian McDiarmid in Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith. Lucas's writing is awful, but somehow McDiarmid is able to make it work.

On the other hand, sometimes even truly wonderful actors can't save bad writing. A prime example of that is the Master's resurrection sequence in "The End of Time, Part One." Alexandra Moen ("Lucy Saxon") is an absolutely wonderful actress -- one need only look at her wonderful, understated performance in "The Sound of Drums"/"Last of the Time Lords" to see how she was able to take a very small, mostly background, role, yet create a complete arc for herself with evolution in every scene. But nobody could save that awful resurrection scene -- complete with a cliched, "A-ha! But you didn't expect this!" reversal. It was just awful.

And I say that as an RTD fan!

(It's okay, though. I loved almost everything RTD ever did, and I can handle one truly awful scene in the course of five years. :) )
 
But Roddenberry didn't get this crap when he gave Vina her sex toy Pike at the end of "The Cage" (or Pike getting Vina at the end of "The Menagerie".
That's comparing apples to oranges. In "The Cage" Vina was lonely and in the end the Talosians realised that and gave her the illusion of Pike staying to help stop her loneliness. In the "The Menagerie" Pike goes back to be with the real Vina on Talos IV. On the other hand, Rose was a spoiled brat who saw the Doctor (especially Ten) as hers and hers alone. Come hell or high water she was going to have him for herself. She even risked collapsing realities to get him. And in the end she got what she selfishly wanted. A Doctor of her very own.
 
How was Rose in any way a selfish brat? Her entire life changed the moment the Ninth Doctor told her to run in the basement of Henrik's department store. She fell in love with the Doctor. I don't have any problem with that. Rose risked the collapse of two realities in our to help save her home reality, have no problem with that either. Is it really so bad that a companion would fall in love with the Doctor?
 
How was Rose in any way a selfish brat? Her entire life changed the moment the Ninth Doctor told her to run in the basement of Henrik's department store. She fell in love with the Doctor. I don't have any problem with that. Rose risked the collapse of two realities in our to help save her home reality, have no problem with that either. Is it really so bad that a companion would fall in love with the Doctor?

Yes, because girls have cooties.
 
A prime example would be Ian McDiarmid in Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith. Lucas's writing is awful, but somehow McDiarmid is able to make it work.

Of course, it does help that the Emperor usually had the best lines of dialogue in the Star Wars movies.
 
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I have two thoughts:

1. Though Ian McDiarmid salvaged Episodes I and II, not even he could save Episode III, where his dialogue ran completely counter to his strengths. Cackling and sword-fighting?

2. Personally, I always blame the on-set caterer. If only better sandwiches had been served (and maybe some biscuits?), "Victory of the Daleks" would have been genius.
 
I think we always blame the writer because a writer is responsible for coming up with the dialogue the characters speak and the plot of the story. If either one of those things is perceived to be bad by fans then at least we know who is responsible for them. A secondary reaction would be blaming the actors for poor performance and not "getting" the script. A third reaction would be blaming the direction of the episode or film. I think in film a director gets blamed for a flop more than the writer or actors do. It's an interesting question.
 
2. Personally, I always blame the on-set caterer. If only better sandwiches had been served (and maybe some biscuits?), "Victory of the Daleks" would have been genius.

I think that you may be on to something here! I now suspect that others may also be responsible. For example, film crews always have a guy called a "Best Boy". What if the guy they hired for certain episodes really WASN'T the Best Boy?
 
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Ok back from a little self imposed exile from this forum now. Apologies to anyone I offended in any way, I don't apologise for what I said but do for the way I said it. As I said though, for me to be trumpeted as some kind of RTD apologist is kinda funny all things considered given that it isn't so long ago I'd have been called an RTD basher by some.

But I've always stuck by my personal view that each bit of writing needs to be taken in isolation, so while some of RTD's output is poor (Last of the Timelords, New Earth) he is capable of very good work (Children of Earth, Midnight). To be honest I judge Moffat by the same criteria (never been a huge fan of The Girl in the Fireplace if I'm honest and the second part of the library two parter was very dissapointing).

Unfortunatly some people just have more polorised views and that's fair enough I guess. I just think its a shame that people won't accept there's the tiniest bit of good from RTD's time. As someone above said though, it isn't just Who that generates such firece opinions- other tv shows do, sports do-I used to lurk on a forum dedicated to my football team and blimey the crap on there from people who'd never played the game at a high level yet who knew, knew mind you, that they could do better. Frankly I'm glad the forum closed down, and I find supporting my team a lot more enjoyable now.

Because it's occured to me of late that most people get along just fine without having to dissect every bit of a film or a tv show on the internet, in fact I bet most people who watched and enjoyed Blink or Midnight or Amy's Choice would be hard pressed to even tell you who wrote them. This doesn't mean I'm going to stop doing it, but I'm definitely not going to do it as much, but I've missed talking with a lot of people on this forum the last week. I like this forum and, as the Doctor might say, I've put a lot of work into it. I am going to try and keep my nose out of the more contentious discussions though, and not let things rile me.

cos you know what? William Shatner was right all those years ago.
 
^ I consider myself a pretty big fan, and I couldn't tell you off the top of my head who wrote those episodes. I definitely saw the writer's credit when I watched them and said, "Oh, interesting" to myself, but I have forgotten. So yeah, I think it's not that important to many people.
 
See what happens when you get a PS3 and Fallout New Vegas and you don't visit for a week or so? You miss great threads like this. For a fleeting moment I even thought captain crow was an alt account for Bones. I knew those two would hit it off. ;)

And yes, Billie Piper is horse-faced. If her and Sarah Jessica Parker were in the same room, I'd be inclined to throw a saddle on both of them (and not in a kinky way).

As for the actual topic, it isn't always fair to blame the writer. I'm sure most of us are quite familiar with the writing process on TV shows and know that the story initially submitted and sold may be vastly different to what actually airs. Directors, producers, script editors, staff writers, etc, may all have a hand in it before it's done shooting.

And for me, RTD and DW is much like Gene Roddenberry and ST: I'll give credit where it's due for creating/reviving something and being successful but I find both RTD and GR highly over-rated. Some good ideas mixed with a lot of really weak, or outright stupid, ones.
 
And yes, Billie Piper is horse-faced. If her and Sarah Jessica Parker were in the same room, I'd be inclined to throw a saddle on both of them (and not in a kinky way).

If Billie Piper is your idea of horse-faced, well, hey, all I can say is, I'd happily become a cowboy in your world. :bolian:
 
While I do understand that some people don't care for Rose (or perhaps Billy Piper's portrayal of her), I do have trouble seeing Billy as an unattractive woman. Beauty is supposedly in the eye of the beholder, so to take a slight liberty with a Monty Python bit:

Sergeant: (Showing the Officer a few photos) ...Now that's my wife sir.

Officer: Ah you... sure, Sarge?

Sergeant: Yes sir- that's my wife!

Officer: And that's... your horse?

Sergeant: Yes sir.

Officer: I see. Well! Looks like I will be calling on you rather a lot when all this is over.

Sergeant: Oh thank you sir.

Officer: Not at all... it's just that I am rather fond of horses!.....
 
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