You can watch Vick play the game and not think about it? It's all I'll ever think about when I see him. He'll be remembered for his criminal acts. That's a certainty. Playing football at a high level doesn't erase that, and it shouldn't earn forgiveness for any criminal act. Convicted felons shouldn't be allowed in the game, whoever they may be.
NFL Talk - 2010-11 Season
- Thread starter tomalak301
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Personally, I'm more troubled by Leonard Little still being allowed to play. Actually, I'm even more troubled by the slap on the wrist he got from the justice system.
Are you referring to Jim Traber? He's an idiot and jackass and only has a show because of location and his professional playing career.
Are you referring to Jim Traber? He's an idiot and jackass and only has a show because of location and his professional playing career.
Americans tend to love winners. They also tend to be amazingly forgiving of te celebrity. Put the two together and I be Vick will be welcomed back into the fold quickly if he keeps winning, for the most part.
However, I do like stories of redemption and this one would be a good one if he sustains it. Vick has got to know how closely the eye will be kept on him, and as such I doubt he'd be that stupid as to commit some similar act.
But if you kick hm out there are quite a few others who ought to go with him.
However, I do like stories of redemption and this one would be a good one if he sustains it. Vick has got to know how closely the eye will be kept on him, and as such I doubt he'd be that stupid as to commit some similar act.
But if you kick hm out there are quite a few others who ought to go with him.
And I was just about to edit in a reference to Leonard Little, myself, as an example of something pretty unbelievable.
You're right, of course. They're dirty, unclean filth and the scum of society. If the world were just they would be driven into the desert and never allowed to interact with good, wholesome people and infect the world.
Indeed. The Donte Stallworth thing was pretty bad too, though he at least seemed remorseful from what I could tell and not the scumbag Vick was.
Vick has acted remorseful afterward. Whether or not he's genuine is hard to tell (as it is technically hard to tell with Stallworth). The biggest difference between the two is Vick intentionally killed a dog, while Stallworth accidentally killed a human.
The one and only. Did you hear him yesterday? He was going out of his mind on the air. The man's a blowhard, no doubt, but he went to a different level of insane yesterday. He wouldn't even leave Roy Williams alone about it when Williams was talking about how the military people just need someone to talk to and understand. Not an appropriate time to interject about "poor Michael."
I agree completely that Leonard Little never should have been allowed to play again. Thank you for the excellent point, Neroon. Ponder this:
If Little hadn't received probation and he were instead back in the NFL after a brief stint in prison, (he deserved much more) if he were the showcase of a team that might be super bowl bound and was being fawned over by ESPN sportscasters acting like they wanted to blow the guy, and there was talk of him "having changed" and to just stop whining about it already because "he served his time and deserves a second chance" and crowds were cheering--don't you think people would ask how Susan Gutweiler's family felt about him being cheered? Don't you think that would chap people's asses? If sports personalities were ranting that you were morally deficient as a person if you didn't like Leonard Little, wouldn't that raise your hackles? I get that Vick is legally entitled to do what he's doing, but I don't have to like the man or be awe inspired by his story. I've worked with abused animals. It hits home. I love football. I just wish Vick weren't a part of it.....or he was at the very least a quiet part. At least we don't hear about Little constantly. He's not in the spotlight. Vick is.
No, I never said that. What I meant to say and I stand by is that convicted felons shouldn't have the privilege of playing in the NFL and earning millions and being potential role models for kids. They have a right to work, but in a perfect world the NFL would care a little more about its image and impact since it's a multi billion dollar business. Of course, we don't live in a perfect world.
People don't get into the NFL because they want to be role models for kids. But I'd rather have someone who's done a terrible thing and wants to make amends be in such a position that he can talk to children about how to avoid doing equally terrible things with their own lives.
I completely agree with you guys about Leonard Little, though. It's ridiculous that he didn't even serve any prison time for what he did, and then a few years later he was arrested (but found not guilty
) for DUI again!
As for Donte Stallworth, I don't think he should be villainized; yeah, what happened was terrible and it's a shame the other man lost his life (though he wasn't entirely in the right, either; as I recall he was jaywalking), but Stallworth isn't an evil man because of it. He just made a terrible decision that day. He could have fought the charges made against him, but chose to plead guilty because it was the right thing to do.
I completely agree with you guys about Leonard Little, though. It's ridiculous that he didn't even serve any prison time for what he did, and then a few years later he was arrested (but found not guilty
) for DUI again!As for Donte Stallworth, I don't think he should be villainized; yeah, what happened was terrible and it's a shame the other man lost his life (though he wasn't entirely in the right, either; as I recall he was jaywalking), but Stallworth isn't an evil man because of it. He just made a terrible decision that day. He could have fought the charges made against him, but chose to plead guilty because it was the right thing to do.
But Vick's required to do many of his public service duties by his contract. There's the rub. He doesn't do them; he can't play football. Is it genuine remorse? You can't tell. I don't believe it is. Many don't and there's one of your many problems. It's the brutality level that engenders so much doubt. Exceptionally brutal people in general never change. It's hard to swallow that Vick's an exception.
If I had my druthers, Vick, Little, Rothlisberger (if the good ole boys hadn't kept him from being charged), none of them would ever play the game again. However, I'm not in charge. Money rules the day. It shouldn't, but of course it does.
If I had my druthers, Vick, Little, Rothlisberger (if the good ole boys hadn't kept him from being charged), none of them would ever play the game again. However, I'm not in charge. Money rules the day. It shouldn't, but of course it does.
So your thought is a person who has acted brutal can never be remorseful by definition?
My thought is that someone who's pathologically, severely brutal, which Vick was, for a prolonged period of time would have a great deal of trouble being genuinely remorseful over anything but being caught, yes. I don't buy that he's changed out of anything but necessity. Any good psychologist will tell you that if they'll do it to animals, they're highly likely to do it to humans. I see a manipulative, potentially violent person when I look at Vick. I don't buy the feel good, he's truly remorseful crap, no. I see someone who's "sorry" because it benefits him to be sorry. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to hear about Vick smacking around a girlfriend and kids some day. It troubles me that people are more willing to believe he's changed the better his play becomes, yes.
And the problem with that is what exactly?
I love dogs, I own two of them, so let's get that disclaimer out of the picture.
He committed a crime, paid the price society deemed appropriate, and is now free to pursue whatever vocation he chooses. I don't have a problem with any of this. He should be free to make his livelihood however he wants.
At the same time, there's no reason I have to root for him to succeed.
As for keeping the Stallworth's, Little's, and Vick's off the field...that makes no sense at all.
Mike and Mike made a great argument about this yesterday. What does committing a crime have to do with football? They referenced Pete Rose as compared to Vick.
Rose bet on baseball, he has no right to be allowed back. Vick committed a heinous crime, but one that has nothing to do with football.
I'm a licensed engineer. If I get caught picking up a hooker and lose my job, there's no reason to think I couldn't be an engineer for a different firm. If I take a bribe, fudge my design, and suddenly people get dirty drinking water because of something I did, then revoke my license and don't let me practice again.
One is a crime against society, the other is a crime against your industry. Very different things.
Eight-year veteran Brian St. Pierre, who has thrown five passes in his career (2-5, 12 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT), wasn't even in a training camp to begin the season and was a stay-at-home father at the time the Panthers called him up last Friday, is now going to start for them at quarterback Sunday against Baltimore. Good luck!
Fuck conservative plays on 3rd down.
Wow, the Bears brought it tonight. Granted it was against a team heavily depleted due to injuries but still a good way to go before their brutal stretch to end the season (Detroit and Minnesota being brutal for the exact opposite reasons as Philly, the Jets, New England and Green Bay).
Bears get a league leading 700th franchise win! 
I'm not feeling any sympathy for Vick either, why would I? Even if he were a perfectly honest man who had to live through some tragedy with no fault of his that would be weird seeing as he has much more money and a much more exciting life than I could ever dream of having.
But I just think it's such a waste when highly gifted people like him throw away their potential so unneccessarily, and that's kind of sad to me.
Saquist
Commodore
You are always remember by the last Great thing you did.
Vick needs to work hard putting that behind him and leaving behind the thuggery or at least making far better personal decisions.
But I was extremely critical of his actions before and I personally he got exactly what he deserved for his arrogance and greed 2 fold. He lost all his money, fame and became a convicted felon.
I don't believe people deserve second chances. 2nd chances are gifts and if someone like Reed or McNab chose to honor you with a 2nd chance you grab it and hold on tight because no one is entitled to anything but the liberties we are born with.
That being said.
I think he's making the most of his 2nd chance and I'm happy for him and his current success.
Vick is a douchebag, and he always will be. Those were pretty despicable acts that I'm not really inclined to give him any amount of respect for. I will say good on him for enduring his punishment and appearing to put it all behind him and coming out looking like a pretty fantastic player, but that doesn't mean I have to like the guy.
I hear you. I hear what you're saying.
I definitely hear you.
According to Jim Traber the ranting douchebag, there is something wrong with you if you can't find it in yourself to like Michael Vick now. Calling him a douche is "not fair." If you don't root for him, you're not a good Christian capable of forgiveness for anyone--he agreed wholeheartedly with a viewer who called in to express the "you're not a good Christian" sentiment. He made a point of saying his pastor expressed the same sentiment. Jim's still finding ways to talk about Vick this afternoon even though the Cam Newton story is full throttle now. I guess he fell in love during Monday night football. Thank the maker for Auburn the pay for play football program.
The conversation can finally steer away from Vick on the radio. I wonder how much Auburn paid for him. He didn't walk away from his daddy wanting a hundred thousand from Mississippi State to take nothing from Auburn.- Status