The "real" name of planets

[scotpens]

I submit “Earth” is our planet's native name only in a few languages among thousands.

I think it likely that most language-capable species would use the same word for the ground under their feet and for the planet they inhabit. So just about everybody's word for their own planet in their native language probably translates into English as “Earth” -- the same way many Native American groups call themselves “the people” or “the human beings” in their own language.

 

[Forbin]

What bugged me was when the a native of a planet used the Earth numbering system to refer to his homeworld. I noticed it a few times on TNG and DS9. i.e. "We here on Marzipan Seven have different sexual customs than your people."

 

[RoJoHen]

Not necessarily. Yes we've heard Romulans refer to themselves as Romulans, but only through the universal translator. it's similar to a German, when talking in English, referring to "Germany" rather than "Deutschland" as he natively would.

Exactly. If I were to travel to South America, for example, I would tell them that I'm from "Los Estados Unidos" so that they could understand me. If I say "The United States," they may not know what that means.

 

[C.E. Evans]

What bugged me was when the a native of a planet used the Earth numbering system to refer to his homeworld. I noticed it a few times on TNG and DS9. i.e. "We here on Marzipan Seven..."

To me, that's real easy. The Universal Translator might break down a star system's indigneous name into something that can be pronounced in English (or whatever). If the native population refers to their world--in this case--as the seventh planet in that system, then the UT simply adds "seven" to it. No matter what language the UT translates it into, it will still come out as "the seventh Marzipan planet" or "Marzipan VII."

 

[The Wormhole]

Is Vulcan really the name of Spock's planet? It must be a translation.

Since Romulus and Remus actually are the names the Romulans themselves give to those planets (as implied by the fact they do refer to themselves as Romulans) I see no reason to assume Vulcan or any other planet in Trek has a name otehr than what we've heard it called.

So Vulcanoids are big fans of ancient Earth mythology?

The Romulans refer to themselves as the Rhiannsu or something along those lines, or so I've heard...

Rhiannsu is from the novels. Enterprise's Minefield clearly had the Romulans identifying themselves as Romulan. When they send a message in their native language, Hoshi translates them identifying themselves as "Romalans." T'Pol then corrects her, saying it's pronounced "Romulan."

Star Trek doesn't usually think on these levels of complexity and therefore the names we know the planets as is the native name. Hell, we're talking about a galaxy where every spacefaring race refers to the Sol solar system as "Sector 001" for fuck sakes. Just why they hell does a race from the Delta Quadrant (like the Borg) refer to a region on the other side of the galaxy as the first one?

For that matter, what's up with the leading zeroes...?

Isn't it just The Federation that uses that sector system?

No, the Borg have repeatedly referred to the Sol system as Sector 001.

 

[RoJoHen]

No, the Borg have repeatedly referred to the Sol system as Sector 001.

Probably because they assimilated Picard and now know that's what humans call it. So when talking to humans, that's what they say.

Although honestly, aside from "Best of Both Worlds," I can't remember any instance of the Borg actually calling it that.

 

[T'Girl]

Exactly. If I were to travel to South America, for example, I would tell them that I'm from "Los Estados Unidos" ....

In Mexico maybe, in much of South America you would say El Estados Unidos, in Brazil it's Os Estados Unidos. The majority of people (certainly in the cities) would know what you meant by United States or for that matter Deutschland.

When they send a message in their native language, Hoshi translates them identifying themselves as "Romalans." T'Pol then corrects her, saying it's pronounced "Romulan."

Interesting thing about that is Hoshi may have been right the first time, she was hearing it straight from the "Romulans" themselves, and Hoshi does have a talented ear for languages. T'Pol's correction could have been in error and that error stuck in Human pronunciations.

From that point forward Romalans was mis-translated.

 

[iguana_tonante]

I submit “Earth” is our planet's native name only in a few languages among thousands.

I think it likely that most language-capable species would use the same word for the ground under their feet and for the planet they inhabit. So just about everybody's word for their own planet in their native language probably translates into English as “Earth” -- the same way many Native American groups call themselves “the people” or “the human beings” in their own language.

First contact would be hilarious.

"We are Humans of planet Earth. We come in peace."
"No, we are Humans of planet Earth. We come in peace but you are pissing us off."
"Bugger this. We are Humans. We come from Earth. You can take your peace and shove it when the Sun doesn't shine."
"You mean, our Sun!"

 

[Nardpuncher]

Not necessarily. Yes we've heard Romulans refer to themselves as Romulans, but only through the universal translator. it's similar to a German, when talking in English, referring to "Germany" rather than "Deutschland" as he natively would.

Exactly. If I were to travel to South America, for example, I would tell them that I'm from "Los Estados Unidos" so that they could understand me. If I say "The United States," they may not know what that means.

I guarantee that they will know what you mean when you say "The United States."

 

[RoJoHen]

Fine. Some other example using a different country. How about China? If a Chinese person came up the average American and said the Chinese word for "China," they'd probably have no idea what he was talking about because it sounds nothing like "China."

 

[Nardpuncher]

That's better!

 

[Cicero]

^ Though if the Chinese word for China were literally translated, we would recognize it, as "Middle Kingdom".

 

[scotpens]

. . . in much of South America you would say El Estados Unidos, in Brazil it's Os Estados Unidos.

Isn't “el Estados Unidos” bad Spanish? Or is the masculine singular article el also used collectively?

BTW, where do the Orions come from, anyway? (The ones with the green animal-women.) Orion isn't a planet or a star -- it's a constellation. The star groupings and patterns we call constellations would be completely different, of course, when seen from any planetary system elsewhere in the galaxy. Star Trek had lots of planets with names like Omicron Ceti 3, meaning the third planet orbiting the fifteenth brightest star in the constellation of Cetus (the whale). Or Gamma Hydra 4, the fourth planet of the third brightest star in the constellation Hydra. These names would be meaningless to anyone from outside our solar system.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Not necessarily. Yes we've heard Romulans refer to themselves as Romulans, but only through the universal translator. it's similar to a German, when talking in English, referring to "Germany" rather than "Deutschland" as he natively would.

Exactly. If I were to travel to South America, for example, I would tell them that I'm from "Los Estados Unidos" so that they could understand me. If I say "The United States," they may not know what that means.

But "Romulan" is not a word in English. It would have to come from an outside source. So "Romulan" or "Romalan" ( as T'Girl suggested) is probably a native term.

They say they've annexed this planet in the name of something called The Romalin Star Empire.

Romulan. It's pronounced Romulan.

Without a reference point for Romulan/lin the UT would leave the term untranslated.

The reason English speakers call Deutschland, "Germany" is because they have adopted the Latin term ( apparently derived from a Celtic word) instead of the German/Deutsch one. Probably because language in Britain was more influenced by Latin than the area that became Germany.

 

[The Wormhole]

No, the Borg have repeatedly referred to the Sol system as Sector 001.

Probably because they assimilated Picard and now know that's what humans call it. So when talking to humans, that's what they say.

Although honestly, aside from "Best of Both Worlds," I can't remember any instance of the Borg actually calling it that.

There's Emissary, though I supoose that is technically the same as The Best of Both Worlds. There's also First Contact, and I'm pretty sure a few Voyager episodes.

When they send a message in their native language, Hoshi translates them identifying themselves as "Romalans." T'Pol then corrects her, saying it's pronounced "Romulan."

Interesting thing about that is Hoshi may have been right the first time, she was hearing it straight from the "Romulans" themselves, and Hoshi does have a talented ear for languages. T'Pol's correction could have been in error and that error stuck in Human pronunciations.

From that point forward Romalans was mis-translated.

Except later on T'Pol says she is familiar with tales of a xenophobic race calling themselves "Romulans" which is likely what prompted her to correct Hoshi's earlier mispronounciation.

 

[scotpens]

But “Romulan” is not a word in English. It would have to come from an outside source.

“Romulan” does come from English by way of Latin. In “Balance of Terror,” the chart depicting the Neutral Zone shows two planets, presumably the Romulan homeworlds, which, according to later canon, should be named Romulus and Remus -- after the mythical twin founders of Rome. Except that on the chart, we see the names “Romulus” and “Romii.” (Or could it be “Rom II”?)

Hell, in “Balance of Terror,” the Romulan ruler was called a Praetor and at least one Romulan had a Latin name (Decius). As someone mentioned upthread, the Vulcans and the Romulans must have been big fans of Terran mythology.

 

[Forbin]

^Ah! I'm gald you said that parenthetical! I've been thinking "Rom II" for many years as well.

 

[Sci]

But “Romulan” is not a word in English. It would have to come from an outside source.

“Romulan” does come from English by way of Latin. In “Balance of Terror,” the chart depicting the Neutral Zone shows two planets, presumably the Romulan homeworlds, which, according to later canon, should be named Romulus and Remus -- after the mythical twin founders of Rome. Except that on the chart, we see the names “Romulus” and “Romii.” (Or could it be “Rom II”?)

Hell, in “Balance of Terror,” the Romulan ruler was called a Praetor and at least one Romulan had a Latin name (Decius). As someone mentioned upthread, the Vulcans and the Romulans must have been big fans of Terran mythology.

Dude, the Neutral Zone is supposed to be at least a light-year in width. Romii is far too far away from Romulus for them to be in the same star system. It's obviously the name of a planet in a neighboring star system rather than another term for Remus. (They seem to just be using the names of the important planets in a system rather than using the systems' stars' names.)

 

[scotpens]

Ah! I'm gald you said that parenthetical! I've been thinking “Rom II” for many years as well.

You’re galled?

Or should that be “Gauled”?

Dude, the Neutral Zone is supposed to be at least a light-year in width. Romii is far too far away from Romulus for them to be in the same star system. It's obviously the name of a planet in a neighboring star system rather than another term for Remus. (They seem to just be using the names of the important planets in a system rather than using the systems' stars' names.)

That works for me. But how do we know the chart is drawn to scale? Maybe it's like one of those London Underground maps.

Anyway, my point was that “Romulan” is derived from Romulus, a name from Earth mythology.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Ah! I'm gald you said that parenthetical! I've been thinking “Rom II” for many years as well.

You’re galled?

Or should that be “Gauled”?

Dude, the Neutral Zone is supposed to be at least a light-year in width. Romii is far too far away from Romulus for them to be in the same star system. It's obviously the name of a planet in a neighboring star system rather than another term for Remus. (They seem to just be using the names of the important planets in a system rather than using the systems' stars' names.)

That works for me. But how do we know the chart is drawn to scale? Maybe it's like one of those London Underground maps.

Anyway, my point was that “Romulan” is derived from Romulus, a name from Earth mythology.

You misunderstand my point. Romulan is a word invented for Star Trek., just like Klingon. Yes its derived from "Romulus" just as Klingon is derived from the name of a guy Roddendberry knew. But in-universe both are the names of alien species. The names those species use to identify themselves. ( as opposed to a names given them by others) though, something may be lost in the pronoucuation.