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Spoilers TP: Zero Sum Game by David Mack Review Thread

How would you rate Zero Sum Game?

  • Outstanding

    Votes: 42 23.2%
  • Above Average

    Votes: 83 45.9%
  • Average

    Votes: 46 25.4%
  • Below Average

    Votes: 8 4.4%
  • Poor

    Votes: 2 1.1%

  • Total voters
    181
Re: Typhon Pact: Zero Sum Game Review thread

^I assume she's in Starfleet, then? Because the Bajoran Militia had army ranks, rather than the "navy" system of Starfleet.

So...has the Militia been absorbed into Starfleet by this time?

That happened when Bajor joined the Federation in Unity and Kira became a Captain. I assumed this tease was mainly there to leave a bit more of the new DS9 status quo to be revealed in Rough Beasts of Empire. The main possibilities that come to mind are Admiral, Vedek and Kai, with Kai hopefully being out of the question as redundant with the Online game continuity.

The train of thought does seem to suggest Admiral, but it probably depends mostly on where the DS9-R is headed next. There was a blurb for RBoE that said something about Kira being in a monastery on Bajor, but I think that blurb has since been changed and may quite possibly have been erroneous or outdated.
 
Re: Typhon Pact: Zero Sum Game Review thread

I noticed when I got the Nookbook version that it says it is 269, but both Barnes & Noble and Simon & Schuster's websites list it as 352. So is the number on the number on the sites a typo, or is something wrong with the Nook version?
EDIT: I just checked and it even says 352 on the details page of the nook version.
 
Re: Typhon Pact: Zero Sum Game Review thread

^I assume she's in Starfleet, then? Because the Bajoran Militia had army ranks, rather than the "navy" system of Starfleet.

So...has the Militia been absorbed into Starfleet by this time?

That happened when Bajor joined the Federation in Unity and Kira became a Captain. I assumed this tease was mainly there to leave a bit more of the new DS9 status quo to be revealed in Rough Beasts of Empire. The main possibilities that come to mind are Admiral, Vedek and Kai, with Kai hopefully being out of the question as redundant with the Online game continuity.

The train of thought does seem to suggest Admiral, but it probably depends mostly on where the DS9-R is headed next. There was a blurb for RBoE that said something about Kira being in a monastery on Bajor, but I think that blurb has since been changed and may quite possibly have been erroneous or outdated.

Well, "Kai" would be a nice bit of irony, considering her previous "Attainted" status.
 
Re: Typhon Pact: Zero Sum Game Review thread

I ordered a copy from B&N, but it still hasn't arrived in the mail. Under order status, it just says "Shipped" as of October 22. I'll keep my eye out and read online excerpts. Yes, I'm paying one and half times more ordering online, but it's my way calling dibbs.
 
Re: Typhon Pact: Zero Sum Game Review thread

Just finished it.

Spoiler free review:

I think this book is going to make a lot of people around here very happy, people who've been disappointed with the dark epic scope of everything recently and have been wanting some smaller-scale, more episodic stories. This book might feel the most like a TV episode of any Trek book published since Destiny, including the TOS books early this year. Minor but interesting strides in character development, A and B plot, small bits of exposition into a new culture that could be built upon later… it all feels exactly like it’s coming from a TV perspective.

Which on the one hand is kind of a nice change of pace. The Voyager and Titan books last year were pretty emotionally heavy, the TOS books this year tried to fill in gaps but mostly sucked, and the Destiny & fallout from before all that was epic and enormous. A quick little tossed-off action thriller is something that hasn’t been seen in a while, and it’s welcome for that. And as part of a Typhon Pact exploration, this does a great job setting the political scene and establishing how it all operates; there are plenty of behind-the-scenes glimpses into the Breen relationship with the Romulans, and the cold war aspect in general is beautifully done.

But on the other hand, this is the first 24th century novel to arrive in a year, it's marketed as a fairly major event, and the best parts about it are the hints about the ongoing DS9 story that another novel might pick up… eventually. Especially coming from David Mack, who hasn’t written a novel that wasn’t HOLYSHIT epic since his Wolverine thing, I found it a little disappointing, I won’t lie. I mean, he posted in this very thread about how he loves putting his favorite characters through hell, but no one actually goes through anything in this book. There’s a strong implication that major, soul-wrenching things are going to happen soon in these characters' lives, which I find excellent, but the character development actually present was completely shallow and unconvincing.

And no one on the Aventine did anything that any other crew couldn’t have done. I actually really like the Aventine crew, and was hoping I’d get something new from them, but even the quirky banter thing that everyone had going in staff meetings in Destiny was notably absent here. The attempts at punchlines from Dax and Bowers didn’t do much for me, and ultimately nothing was even as interesting as Kedair’s one-chapter investigation from A Singular Destiny.

In general, I think that this is the kind of book that would’ve fit in perfectly with the DS9 relaunch as it worked before, much like the Section 31 and Gateways books did: fun one-off adventures that played with larger stories around the edges. But getting only one or at most two books to continue these particular threads each year, and especially promising “THE SAGA OF DEEP SPACE NINE WILL CONTINUE” at the end when I know that it won’t until February 2012 at the earliest, I find this kind of incremental development unsatisfying. The book provided several brilliant hints, glimpses, or foreshadowings, and the like, but it didn’t actually do much of anything. Not what I was hoping for, unfortunately.
 
Re: Typhon Pact: Zero Sum Game Review thread

I liked the review threads people used to make that had polls at the top, for people to rate the book. Can we close this one and make one of those, or am I the only person that cares about stuff like that? haha.

I'm with you though; I'm excited. The first 24-th century full in-continuity novel since almost exactly a year ago. And David Mack to boot! :)

I'm pretty sure JD can add a poll to the thread. At the very bottom of the page, on the left-hand side should be an "add a poll to this thread" button.

You listening, JD?;)

nope, not even moderators can add polls to threads in vB, you'll have to have admin access for that.

one option is for someone to start a thread with a poll, and either LS or myself merge the two threads.

Supermods can do it. Then again, I haven't seen any supermods around here...
 
Re: Typhon Pact: Zero Sum Game Review thread

I mean, he posted in this very thread about how he loves putting his favorite characters through hell, but no one actually goes through anything in this book.

Well, he did torture Sarina at the hands of the Breen. Sounded pretty excruciating.
 
Re: Typhon Pact: Zero Sum Game Review thread

It's not called torture anymore. It's enhanced interrogation.
 
Re: Typhon Pact: Zero Sum Game Review thread

I mean, he posted in this very thread about how he loves putting his favorite characters through hell, but no one actually goes through anything in this book.

Well, he did torture Sarina at the hands of the Breen. Sounded pretty excruciating.

You know, it's scary how much Sarina and Ezri have in common. Both idealists, both filled with a childlike wonder and enthusiasm for life...both vunerable-yet-intelligent, both "innocents" in a sense...and now....
 
Re: Typhon Pact: Zero Sum Game Review thread

Wow. This was the first Trek book I'd had time to read since the semester started, and I've been waiting for the Typhon Pact novels since they were announced. As patience isn't my strong suit, I raided Border's and Barnes and Noble on Sunday. No dice. I tried again after work on Monday, and SUCCESS!

I called my friend and made fun of him, because he didn't have a copy of the book, as he's been waiting for this nearly as long as I have.. I had to stop reading roughly 50 pages in to call him again... I was having a nerdgasm, and I had to share it with him.


There was much groaning and gnashing of teeth over not finding out what happens to Kira, but... it just makes me anticipate Rough Beasts of Empire more.

This was a pretty quick read, and had me completely absorbed in it most of the time. I really loved the insight into the Breen, and as usual, Mr. Mack killed more characters I'd really started to like. :weep: I love it. :bolian: I might have to do a David Mack Death Counter in the future. :lol:

Moving on to the A and B plot... there were times where I felt for Bashir, like when he's on DS9 and reflects on his feelings. I want to say Bashir's never been one of my favorite DS9 characters... he whines a bit too much and is too sanctimonious at times, but it was really nice to see him get his hands dirty. I really liked his progression during the mission, from 'Killing is bad' to 'Kill them all'. More Aventine and Bacco would've been great, but all in all, wonderful novel all-around.



@ Supreme Dittodrone - I know, right? I wouldn't think Ezri and Sarina would have much in common, but... whoa. At the same time, I think there was a marked contrast between the two of them.
 
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Re: Typhon Pact: Zero Sum Game Review thread

Wow. This was the first Trek book I'd had time to read since the semester started, and I've been waiting for the Typhon Pact novels since they were announced. As patience isn't my strong suit, I raided Border's and Barnes and Noble on Sunday. No dice. I tried again after work on Monday, and SUCCESS!

I called my friend and made fun of him, because he didn't have a copy of the book, as he's been waiting for this nearly as long as I have.. I had to stop reading roughly 50 pages in to call him again... I was having a nerdgasm, and I had to share it with him.

Amazon gave me a buzz today. They're now shipping the baby over. I should have it some time next week!

There was much groaning and gnashing of teeth over not finding out what happens to Kira, but... it just makes me anticipate Rough Beasts of Empire more.

This was a pretty quick read, and had me completely absorbed in it most of the time. I really loved the insight into the Breen, and as usual, Mr. Mack killed more characters I'd really started to like. :weep: I love it. :bolian: I might have to do a David Mack Death Counter in the future. :lol:

Moving on to the A and B plot... there were times where I felt for Bashir, like when he's on DS9 and reflects on his feelings. I want to say Bashir's never been one of my favorite DS9 characters... he whines a bit too much and is too sanctimonious at times, but it was really nice to see him get his hands dirty. I really liked his progression during the mission, from 'Killing is bad' to 'Kill them all'. More Aventine and Bacco would've been great, but all in all, wonderful novel all-around.

AH!!! Nice...I love Bashir, but his holier-than-thou attidude towards Garak, Ross and Sloan in the show made me wish something would happen to knock him off the high-horse.

So...I wonder, is he beginning to accept Secion 31, or is that a line he's still unwilling to cross?

@ Supreme Dittodrone - I know, right? I wouldn't think Ezri and Sarina would have much in common, but... whoa. At the same time, I think there was a marked contrast between the two of them.

Yep. I'd say the similarities are something of an indication of what Julian wants in a woman....

I wouldn't be suprised if his first love, the dancer he mentions in "Armageddon Game", was very similar, personality-wise, to Sarina and Ezri....
 
Re: Typhon Pact: Zero Sum Game Review thread

I mean, he posted in this very thread about how he loves putting his favorite characters through hell, but no one actually goes through anything in this book.

Well, he did torture Sarina at the hands of the Breen. Sounded pretty excruciating.

Not sure this would count as a favorite character, but...

..the Breen dissident that attempts to help them out loses all her fingers on both hands through torture.
 
Re: Typhon Pact: Zero Sum Game Review thread

There was much groaning and gnashing of teeth over not finding out what happens to Kira, but... it just makes me anticipate Rough Beasts of Empire more.

What Major, no Captain, no (some other title) Kira has moved onto and how the station's new CO ascended to the position. :confused:

We haven’t heard much from Section 31 since Abyss, so it is nice to have them back at the forefront. I wonder if Sarina really stands behind their principles or if she’s just playing along, ultimately working with the likes of Vaughn (poor Vaughn) to bring them down.

I would like to believe the latter since barring a major traumatic life-changing event in the previous seven years, she doesn't strike me as capable of callously exploiting another person.
 
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Re: Typhon Pact: Zero Sum Game Review thread

Just finished it.

Spoiler free review:

I think this book is going to make a lot of people around here very happy, people who've been disappointed with the dark epic scope of everything recently and have been wanting some smaller-scale, more episodic stories. This book might feel the most like a TV episode of any Trek book published since Destiny, including the TOS books early this year. Minor but interesting strides in character development, A and B plot, small bits of exposition into a new culture that could be built upon later… it all feels exactly like it’s coming from a TV perspective.

Which on the one hand is kind of a nice change of pace. The Voyager and Titan books last year were pretty emotionally heavy, the TOS books this year tried to fill in gaps but mostly sucked, and the Destiny & fallout from before all that was epic and enormous. A quick little tossed-off action thriller is something that hasn’t been seen in a while, and it’s welcome for that. And as part of a Typhon Pact exploration, this does a great job setting the political scene and establishing how it all operates; there are plenty of behind-the-scenes glimpses into the Breen relationship with the Romulans, and the cold war aspect in general is beautifully done.

But on the other hand, this is the first 24th century novel to arrive in a year, it's marketed as a fairly major event, and the best parts about it are the hints about the ongoing DS9 story that another novel might pick up… eventually. Especially coming from David Mack, who hasn’t written a novel that wasn’t HOLYSHIT epic since his Wolverine thing, I found it a little disappointing, I won’t lie. I mean, he posted in this very thread about how he loves putting his favorite characters through hell, but no one actually goes through anything in this book. There’s a strong implication that major, soul-wrenching things are going to happen soon in these characters' lives, which I find excellent, but the character development actually present was completely shallow and unconvincing.

And no one on the Aventine did anything that any other crew couldn’t have done. I actually really like the Aventine crew, and was hoping I’d get something new from them, but even the quirky banter thing that everyone had going in staff meetings in Destiny was notably absent here. The attempts at punchlines from Dax and Bowers didn’t do much for me, and ultimately nothing was even as interesting as Kedair’s one-chapter investigation from A Singular Destiny.

In general, I think that this is the kind of book that would’ve fit in perfectly with the DS9 relaunch as it worked before, much like the Section 31 and Gateways books did: fun one-off adventures that played with larger stories around the edges. But getting only one or at most two books to continue these particular threads each year, and especially promising “THE SAGA OF DEEP SPACE NINE WILL CONTINUE” at the end when I know that it won’t until February 2012 at the earliest, I find this kind of incremental development unsatisfying. The book provided several brilliant hints, glimpses, or foreshadowings, and the like, but it didn’t actually do much of anything. Not what I was hoping for, unfortunately.

I agree with this for the most part. I feel like Zero Sum Game was a great tease for things to come. Is there anything wrong with that? No, not in my opinion, because it's leaving me wanting more. I enjoyed the story although I would have loved to have seen more Aventine. The ending was quite the plesant shock.

David Mack has easily become my favorite Star Trek author.
 
Re: Typhon Pact: Zero Sum Game Review thread

I'm sick of teasing myself, give me the fucking story or don't bother.
 
Re: Typhon Pact: Zero Sum Game Review thread

^ I wouldn't quite go THAT far. I think stuff like this, foreshadowing and hinting at larger stories, was a real strength of the DS9 Relaunch. Heck, more recently, even Vanguard I think has done really well with each book feeling like a small piece in a much larger story, as plot threads slowly develop over the course of several novels. But I think Vanguard succeeds more on this publication timescale because a lot of hinting and foreshadowing also accompanies a steady increase in EPIC AWESOME, where here after the tremendous events of both DS9 Relaunch to date and also the last few 24-th century novels in general, Zero Sum Game feels like moving backwards.

Or maybe I'm overthinking it; it just seemed like nothing really happened, and I was underwhelmed.
 
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