Greater Than The Sum (spoliers)

[Therin of Andor]

Wasn't Peter David supposed to be the first-coming of Keith RA DeCandido?

I usually prefer Christopher to PAD; I just didn't like GTTS that much.

I spent quite some time fretting that Christopher was planning to kill off a favourite character of mine, and he did, but then he did exactly the same to me in "Ex Machina", too. "No, no, no, it's so logical for the story, but nooooooooooooooo!" Both times.

I've enjoyed all of Christopher's books, despite what he did to my faves. As for PAD, I think I enjoyed the delicious irony that he got to do the same to Janeway.

 

[DonIago]

I miss Leybenzon too.

 

[Defcon]

^ I actually do miss him, it's a shame he had to go only because Christopher seems to be incapable of writing militaristic "good guys".

Because you can't tell me he had to be written out because he was "damaged goods", since the character who was damaged the most by the Mutiny is the one who remained on the ship the longest and probably will return, Kadohata.

 

[Christopher]

^ I actually do miss him, it's a shame he had to go only because Christopher seems to be incapable of writing militaristic "good guys".

No, he had to go because Margaret Clark told me to write him and T'Lana out and to kill one of them off. And I believed T'Lana was redeemable, so I chose to spare her -- though as it turned out, that didn't last long.

Overall, of all my full-length Trek novels, GTTS is the only one that was substantially shaped by ideas other than my own. Like Aftermath and The Darkness Drops Again, it was one installment in a sequence developed by multiple authors, and so its story was shaped by the stories surrounding it. I was hired to create a transitional piece between what J. M. Dillard, KRAD, and PAD had done before me and what Dave was doing in Destiny, and this was after Destiny had been outlined. So there were certain beats I had to hit, certain outcomes I had to bring about. The decisions to get rid of Leybenzon and T'Lana and to add Choudhury to the crew were made before I was hired, though it was my job to determine how those things occurred.

Because you can't tell me he had to be written out because he was "damaged goods", since the character who was damaged the most by the Mutiny is the one who remained on the ship the longest and probably will return, Kadohata.

I don't see why you'd think that. In the mutiny, Leybenzon and T'Lana were hardcore and unrepentant in their opposition to Picard's old guard, whereas Kadohata was conflicted and ultimately redeemed herself by siding with Picard. So of the three, Kadohata was the one who could most easily be reconciled with the rest of the crew.

 

[Defcon]

No, he had to go because Margaret Clark told me to write him and T'Lana out and to kill one of them off. And I believed T'Lana was redeemable, so I chose to spare her -- though as it turned out, that didn't last long.

Overall, of all my full-length Trek novels, GTTS is the only one that was substantially shaped by ideas other than my own. Like Aftermath and The Darkness Drops Again, it was one installment in a sequence developed by multiple authors, and so its story was shaped by the stories surrounding it. I was hired to create a transitional piece between what J. M. Dillard, KRAD, and PAD had done before me and what Dave was doing in Destiny, and this was after Destiny had been outlined. So there were certain beats I had to hit, certain outcomes I had to bring about. The decisions to get rid of Leybenzon and T'Lana and to add Choudhury to the crew were made before I was hired, though it was my job to determine how those things occurred.

I realize my comment wasn't really fair, so I apologize.

Actually I have to admit it doesn't surprise me that it was Clark's decision. Based on her track record she doesn't seem to be the best choice to edit ongoing series.

And if I remember correctly we have discussed my misgivings about your decisions for the characters back when the book first came out.

I don't see why you'd think that. In the mutiny, Leybenzon and T'Lana were hardcore and unrepentant in their opposition to Picard's old guard, whereas Kadohata was conflicted and ultimately redeemed herself by siding with Picard.

Funnily enough, that exactly is the reason I think she's the worst damaged of the three and admittingly the one really mishandled by PAD somewhat. She's just totally unconvincing and like a flag in the wind. I never really bought why she was part of the mutiny in the first place, and then she turns on them to go back to Daddy Picard, equally unconvincing.

From their character set-ups I can see where Leybonzon and T'Lana are coming from and I can see them opposing Picard when they think he's wrong, Kadohata not so much and it never was really convincingly explained to me in either BD or the following novels.

So of the three, Kadohata was the one who could most easily be reconciled with the rest of the crew.

But do we really have to do the most easy thing? I for one would have liked to have some tension among the senior officers for a while.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I miss Leybenzon too.

Actually, I was talking about a canonical character killed off in "Greater Than the Sum".

 

[Christopher]

Funnily enough, that exactly is the reason I think she's the worst damaged of the three and admittingly the one really mishandled by PAD somewhat. She's just totally unconvincing and like a flag in the wind. I never really bought why she was part of the mutiny in the first place, and then she turns on them to go back to Daddy Picard, equally unconvincing.

Well, let's once again be clear on something that keeps getting forgotten: Picard was the one committing mutiny. He was defying direct orders from the Admiralty, and so he was relieved of command, which technically was the right thing to do in that situation. By relieving Picard of command, Miranda was putting down a mutiny, not committing one. She was obeying Admiral Nechayev's direct order, and it shouldn't be necessary to ask why an officer would obey an order. That's what they're trained to do, what they're supposed to do, whether they agree with those orders or not.

 

[kkozoriz1]

It should be necessary to ask if an order is lawful. I was only following orders is not a defense. I'm not saying that Nechayev's order wasn't lawful, just that there are times when an order can and should be disobeyed. It's not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing with the order, that's cut and dried as long as it's a lawful order.

 

[Defcon]

@Christopher:

If you believe me or not I actually had written anti-mutiny at first than wasn't sure if that phrase actually exists and messed up the sentence by deleting the anti without replacing mutiny.

But beside the fact that I had the semantics wrong, are you aware you're actually making my point?

In the end she was neither loyal to her pledge, nor to her captain, so tell me how she isn't the most damaged goods of the three. Leybonzon and T'Lana choose to follow the chain of command and were willing to accept possible repercussions for it, but she is changing her colors left and right.

 

[DonIago]

I miss Leybenzon too.

Actually, I was talking about a canonical character killed off in "Greater Than the Sum".

Rest assured, I was being facetious.

 

[Corran Horn]

Christopher seems to spend time either reconciling, rationalizing, or 'fixing' things from other works in his books. Kadohata's 'romantic' feelings about Leybenzon, T'Lana's actions in the mutiny and antipathy towards Worf, the Bandi being able to create Farpoint station on their own and nobody in the Federation second-guessing them, the 'skymounts' having breathable atmosphere, 'crew' positions, and interior corridors...that kinda thing.

There are a few other examples I'm forgetting I'm sure. Nothing wrong with it though. (and the character stuff was an editorial decision, it seems)

 

[DonIago]

It should be necessary to ask if an order is lawful. I was only following orders is not a defense. I'm not saying that Nechayev's order wasn't lawful, just that there are times when an order can and should be disobeyed. It's not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing with the order, that's cut and dried as long as it's a lawful order.

I agree that there are times when orders shouldn't be followed, but I'm not sure Kadohata et al. were in a position to make that call...clearly they didn't feel they were regarding Nechayev's orders, in any case.

They're painted as the bad guys because they're not the "old guard" and are ultimately proven wrong, but if the Borg had been deliberately messing with Picard and he'd been the one who was wrong, we might see the situation a different way.

Actually, it bothers me a little bit that it never seems to occur to Picard to wonder whether the Borg might be toying with him, though I suppose the best argument against it is that deception isn't generally the Borg's SOP.

 

[Christopher]

In the end she was neither loyal to her pledge, nor to her captain, so tell me how she isn't the most damaged goods of the three. Leybonzon and T'Lana choose to follow the chain of command and were willing to accept possible repercussions for it, but she is changing her colors left and right.

I don't accept that someone who slavishly adheres to one side of a question is a better person than someone who's able to recognize both sides. Anyone who's kept track of my utterances on this board should recall that I strongly believe most truths are found in the middle ground rather than at the extremes. Seeing only one side of a question is a weakness -- and in a case like this, where the arguments on both sides were essentially right, it was downright foolish. T'Lana and Leybenzon were unwilling to bend, unable to consider the possibility that they could be wrong, and that, to me, is what made them irredeemable. (Or at least what made Leybenzon irredeemable. Recall that the way I tried to redeem T'Lana was by having her recognize the illogic of assuming she couldn't be wrong, the folly of closing her mind to alternative points of view. Recognizing one's own fallibility is the essential first step toward self-improvement, and as a psychiatric professional, T'Lana should've known that better than anyone.)

Maybe Kadohata didn't cover herself in glory, but then, nobody really did in that situation. At least Miranda showed she was willing to admit her mistakes, and that's the most admirable thing of all.

 

[DonIago]

I wouldn't have minded seeing Kadohata get demoted for her actions, though I guess that would also have created problems from a chain-of-command standpoint if it was already decided by TPTB that she should remain in her current position.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I wouldn't have minded seeing Kadohata get demoted for her actions

Demoted for obeying the orders of your captain's superiors?

 

[kkozoriz1]

Overall, of all my full-length Trek novels, GTTS is the only one that was substantially shaped by ideas other than my own. Like Aftermath and The Darkness Drops Again, it was one installment in a sequence developed by multiple authors, and so its story was shaped by the stories surrounding it. I was hired to create a transitional piece between what J. M. Dillard, KRAD, and PAD had done before me and what Dave was doing in Destiny, and this was after Destiny had been outlined. So there were certain beats I had to hit, certain outcomes I had to bring about. The decisions to get rid of Leybenzon and T'Lana and to add Choudhury to the crew were made before I was hired, though it was my job to determine how those things occurred.

Which was one worry I brought up in the DS9-R thread. With more Big Events seeming to be likely, then the books between the events will have more "connect the dots" passages devoted to them", serving the larger plot rather that the primary plot of the book.

 

[JD]

I haven't read the book since it first came out, but I could have sworn that Leybenzon and/or T'Lana requested to leave the Enterprise, and that Picard had nothing to do with it.

 

[Christopher]

I haven't read the book since it first came out, but I could have sworn that Leybenzon and/or T'Lana requested to leave the Enterprise, and that Picard had nothing to do with it.

Actually they both requested transfers, T'Lana at the end of Before Dishonor (though it was presented a bit unclearly) and Leybenzon fairly early in GTTS. In neither case was it Picard's idea to get rid of them. He was willing to give them all a second chance, but T'Lana didn't think she could remain part of the crew after the events of BD, and while Leybenzon stuck around for a couple more months thereafter, he decided he didn't trust Picard where the Borg were concerned and thus requested a transfer before the Einstein mission.

 

[DonIago]

I wouldn't have minded seeing Kadohata get demoted for her actions

Demoted for obeying the orders of your captain's superiors?

Actually, I meant to retract my statement. Not sure what I was thinking there.

 

[SicOne]

I rather enjoyed that bit of technobabble about how transphasic torpedos worked.

And that Christopher and another author worked together to make sure they didn't contradict each other on the workings of transphasic torpedos in their respective works.

Again, that the authors have worked together to improve continuity of recent Trek Lit has been for the betterment of the genre as a whole as well as beneficial for the readers.