With her trumpet playing John Lennon glasses wearing companion
and her yobbo brother spraying graffiti everywhere 
WHY
- Thread starter James Wright
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With her trumpet playing John Lennon glasses wearing companion
and her yobbo brother spraying graffiti everywhere 
Yeah....the companion idea made my toes curl*shudder* but the rest was intriguing.
And of course, Michael Grade turned the idea down and gave us Silvester McCoy instead. Still, it's an interesting bit of historical trivia, isn't it? I don't think it would have really changed the show's eventual fate, budgets and stories being what they were in those days, but it sure would have gotten people talking. I think that the only thing that survived was the "yob companion" concept, where the grafiti spraying yobbo became the explosives throwing yob-ette, Ace.
And of course, Michael Grade turned the idea down and gave us Silvester McCoy instead. Still, it's an interesting bit of historical trivia, isn't it? I don't think it would have really changed the show's eventual fate, budgets and stories being what they were in those days, but it sure would have gotten people talking. I think that the only thing that survived was the "yob companion" concept, where the grafiti spraying yobbo became the explosives throwing yob-ette, Ace.
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See, this is a reasonable answer. You're right - casting the next Doctor as a man or a woman are equally valid ideas. The only reason the pendulum swings ultimately to the female side, in my mind, again, is because it's, as you say, revolutionary. Why do the same thing for the 12th time? Answers like "He's never been a cabbage before, or a serial killer, but that doesn't mean they should make that happen" are moronic - to suggest that a female in the role would be as ludicrous as a cabbage or a serial killer is masculine close-mindedness to a comical extreme. Now, you ask a very good question: how will it lead to "better" stories? I'm not sure. Let's find out, I say. It would certainly allow all the guest characters to react differently to the main character - imagine a strong-willed female scientist named The Doctor marching into a patriarchal Middle Ages-type setting, and starting to take charge and boss everyone around. The new way that everyone would react to the Doctor, and the Doctor's newfound frustration that people are reacting to her differently now, should be fascinating television.
This would also allow brand new relationship possibilities between the Doctor and her companions. I don't mean romantically - I just mean in terms of tone, approach. Imagine a 30- or 40- something female Doctor, with a teenage male companion. How would that work out? Again, it sounds new and potentially fascinating.
The possibilities for novelty are enormous. And again, for a show that's been essentially repeating the same tired formulas for decades, novelty is a very good thing.
Oops! I scanned the thread and evidently I missed that. Sorry' bout that.
Still, kind of an interesting insight into the politics of the Beeb back in the day, isn't it?
Oops! I scanned the thread and evidently I missed that. Sorry' bout that.
Still, kind of an interesting insight into the politics of the Beeb back in the day, isn't it?
Yet another example of Grade doing anything he could possibly do to get Colin out of the role and kill the series, something that ultimately happened only a few years later. I can't help but think that in his mind, Sylvester McCoy was a *worse* choice than having a female Doctor, and that's why Syl was cast, giving us Time and the Rani. *shudder* Fortunately, Grade departed and many years later, competent people were put in charge at the BBC, allowing us to have much more Doctor Who.
I'm glad I'm not the only person here with that opinion. I always thought Grade wanted nothing more than to axe the show from the proverbial get-go and that McCoy, lovely fellow and fine comedic actor though he was, was simply miscast in the title role (nor does the blame fall wholly on McCoys. The man was saddled with some really bad scripts, such as Time and the Rani. Nobody could have looked good doing those).
The idea of temporarilly bringing Troughton back as a stop-gap measure would have been a step nobody genuinely interested in the welfare of the show would simply discard so offhandedly.
The idea of temporarilly bringing Troughton back as a stop-gap measure would have been a step nobody genuinely interested in the welfare of the show would simply discard so offhandedly.
^ Wasn't there also some thought given to Peter Cook replacing Colin B? Again, great actor/ comic, but hardly indicative of them taking the character or show seriously.
I like Cook's comedy, but as a heroic lead in an adventure show, I'm almost positive he'd never have worked out. I remember reading about him as an alternative and my thought at the time was, "No way! They couldn't be serious!"
Well, evidently, they weren't in the least serious about the show-you hit it spot-on.
Well, evidently, they weren't in the least serious about the show-you hit it spot-on.
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By that rationale, you could justify:
a porn episode of DW;
replacing the theme tune with country and western music;
killing off the Doctor entirely and having a new lead character;
revealing that the Doctor was a robot;
making the Doctor a glove puppet;
revealing that the Daleks were actually Scientologists;*
having the Doctor regenerate as a hologram;
having an episode set in a room, featuring only 2 characters, no action, but lots of dialogue full of Pinter-esque pauses.
I could go on, but you get the idea. None of these have been tried before. Let's see what happens if they were.
* I actually think they should try this one, come to think of it.
It was done, in the story "The Chase" with the First Doctor
That was one of the episodes of the Second Doctor story The Mind Robber, and it was rubbish.
Well, not counting the 60s.
Peter Cook wasn't in line for the seventh Doctor, but Verity Lambert did say that IF her company had got the contract to make Who after it was put out to tender in 1990 (ie, post-Sylvester), then Peter Cook would have been top of her shortlist of people to interview.
By the time she said that, of course, Cook had already passed away. And I doubt she would have actually hired him given the state of his health in the 1990s.
I'd argue that the Doctor's masculinity is as essential to the role, in any incarnation, as his sense of humor, optimism, overwhelming curiosity, and desire to right wrongs wherever he finds them.
Having said that -- there is one scenario I can think of under which the idea of a female Doctor might, to me, work.
The Doctor is in his thirteenth incarnation. He's dying. He thinks he's about to meet his end. He's certain of it. He thinks he's going to go. And then, all of the sudden, after he's said his goodbyes and made his peace with the universe... Suddenly, he regenerates.
Into a woman.
And she has no idea how that happened.
Blackout. End of season.
Having said that -- there is one scenario I can think of under which the idea of a female Doctor might, to me, work.
The Doctor is in his thirteenth incarnation. He's dying. He thinks he's about to meet his end. He's certain of it. He thinks he's going to go. And then, all of the sudden, after he's said his goodbyes and made his peace with the universe... Suddenly, he regenerates.
Into a woman.
And she has no idea how that happened.
Blackout. End of season.
Ah, that's where I read that! I remember being really surprised when I read that the first time.
Actually, this is very similar to what "Midnight" was, although there it was 7 people trapped in a room instead of 2. And "Midnight" was one of the best episodes of the season.
And I still say there's a huge difference between "it might be worth considering regenerating the Doctor as female" and "the Doctor has not been female and this is an OUTRAGE!!!1!!!"
My gut instinct tells me that most of these ideas you've just stated actually carry a lot of potential. Let's see....
-A porn episode? Not possible on BBC. Although an episode that deals directly with intensely sexual themes may not be a bad change of pace.
-Replacing the theme tune? Well, for an episode like The Gunslingers, they very well could have used a different opening theme, one with a Western slant. Or, if they want to try a permanent change, they're welcome to. If it doesn't work, they can always change back. (Star Trek: Enterprise, the most mediocre of shows, had the balls to try a new theme tune. It sucked, but I respect their attempt.)
-Reveal that the Doctor is a robot? Awesome idea. Except, he's been under a doctor's care before, so the change must be relatively recent...they could reveal that the Doctor of the last half season or so was a robot. They did that in Deep Space Nine, with Dr. Bashir - the Bashir who had been there for several episodes turned out to be an alien imposter. I think you've actually stumbled on something fascinating, there. Imagine how terrified the companion would be if they found out.
-making the Doctor a glove puppet? Permanently, that would get very old very fast. But for a one-off? A special episode in which the whole story is done with sock puppets? Hell, Buffy made a whole episode a Broadway musical, I don't see why an episode of Doctor Who couldn't be sock puppets. It wouldn't be any sillier than Deep Space Nine's tribble episode.
The Daleks as scientologist? Scientology is a human construction....but I'm sure the writers could find their way around that. Sounds like an awesome idea.
The Doctor regenerate as a hologram? Awesome. Maybe that is the way he manages to live beyond his 13 lives...he somehow puts his consciousness into a hologram machine, and his 14th life is as a computer/hologram, at least until he can find some way of adding more lives to himself. The writers could probably find tons of things to do with that.
A drama with only a few characters, done with Pinteresque pauses? That is very much like Midnight. Not to mention Inside the Spaceship, the William Hartnell episode. It's a fantastic idea - they should do more of those.
I mean this sincerely - some of your ideas are fantastic. I don't personally like the sock puppet idea, or the porn idea, but most of these ideas are quite good. Why do Buffy and Star Trek have more guts than Doctor Who?
You say "guts", I say "gimmicks".
If they EVER let Hack Whedon near Doctor Who, the show would be dead to me. I need proper writing, not pop-culture-laced,choreographed tweeny fights...
Gimmicks are only gimmicks if they don't work. And since when is Doctor Who above trying gimmicks? Have you ever seen The 3 Doctors or The 5 Doctors? And have you ever seen all of Russel T. Davies Dalek episodes? Have you ever seen a Unit story from the Pertwee era? Doctor Who has tried more gimmicks than Whedon and all the Star Trek writers put together.
And for every 5 gimmicks that flop, there's a classic. You never get anywhere if you don't try original and potentially disastrous ideas....
Yes, I've pretty much seen every Doctor Who episode ever made. The Five and Three Doctors are "anniversary shows", not gimmicks. If you want to classify multiple Docs crossing over, then The Two Doctors would be a "gimmick". And it was awful, so that should be a shining example how cosmetic gimmick ideas only work for those who want said gimmicks. Doctor Who's writing is light-years above most everything else on television right now. Certainly a lifetime beyond anything Whedon ever put on paper. So, unlike subpar material that relies on weekly gimmicks in an attempt to save itself from irrelevance, Doctor Who just tells a good, solid story. No puppets, or musicals. Just good stories. And that's worked for them for almost fifty-years. I believe in the old adage, if it's not broke... 
If you like sock puppets so much, you could always check out the Scottish Falsetto Sock Puppet Theatre on YouTube. Hell, they've done plenty of Doctor Who parodies, and even a Torchwood parody. Two of their Doctor Who parodies have even been included on the DVDs of The War Games and The Horns of Nimon (as easter eggs). They'll also have a parody on the upcoming DVD of The Dominators.
I don't know enough about Buffy to comment, but I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that one reason why it might do episodes like a musical or whatever is because with a season of 20 episodes they can afford to have throw-away or filler episodes. Meanwhile Doctor Who only has 13 episodes (with indications that number may be going down in future years). They have to make every episode count.
Now tell me, in what way does Star Trek have "more guts" than Doctor Who? Is it because of your earlier example, that they did something different for Enterprise's theme? Not only was it a mistake for Enterprise, but it would be wrong for Doctor Who to replace the theme. The Doctor Who theme is as iconic and integral to the show as the TARDIS itself, or even the Daleks. And besides, it's a kick-ass theme.
Anyway, Doctor Who seems to have more guts than Star Trek. Doctor Who changes its cast and has continuing story arcs. Meanwhile, every Star Trek series has kept 99% of its cast from beginning to end, and with the exception of DS9's and Enterprise's final two seasons, consists entirely of stand-alone episodes with the odd two-parter sprinkled in, usually as a season cliffhanger.
Also, Doctor Who features openly gay and bisexual characters, while Star Trek only features lesbians as a means of showing how different the Mirror Universe is.
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