There's no way Rory could compete with the Doctor and he said as much and it really IMO makes Rory feel like a fifth wheel. And I didn't think Ian and Barbara were boring but then they weren't a romantic couple either for that matter.
The end scene of "Flesh and Stone"
- Thread starter EJA
- Start date
There's no way Rory could compete with the Doctor and he said as much and it really IMO makes Rory feel like a fifth wheel. And I didn't think Ian and Barbara were boring but then they weren't a romantic couple either for that matter.
Except, of course, that he did compete with the Doctor. And he won.
And then Rory not only won, but he topped it by dedicating two thousand years of his life to Amy!
Exactly! As Rose put it in "The Doctor Dances," "Bloke-wise, that's right up there with flossing."
Rory may not be as overtly heroic as the Doctor -- in fact it's fair to say that he had a bit of growing to do. But in spite of that, it remained a fact that Amy loved him more than the Doctor -- even though she'd loved the Doctor since she was a child, really. Clearly, human feelings aren't always about what "objective" standards would suggest who makes a "better" partner.
If you blink and miss the scene you don't miss anything and saying it's art as an excuse is a cop out any writer appreciates economy of effort when it comes to storytelling. And really given how that two parter turned out alittle more time spent on the Silurian part of the story was needed in my mind. There's little point in bringing back the Silurians if all they were going to was copy the original Silurian serial.
I'm fundamentally confused now about which "it" you were talking about when you said "it" was unnecessary. Are you referring to the Amy/Doctor scene at the end of "Flesh and Stone," or to Rory's death at the end of "Cold Blood?"
Either way, though, even Rory's death was not unnecessary. How else could they bring him back as an Auton and let him survive for 2,000 years in the altered timeline?
My fault I meant the Angels and in any event the scene felt tacked on since it really advance the storyline. And if Amy wasn't in love with the Doctor on some level she would've told him about her marriage the next day instead of leaving with him. Rory being a companion still IMO makes him feel like a fifth wheel. If you remove the scene of Amy comoing on to the Doctor you loss nothing. If they did have sex that night Rory should drop her like bad habit.
This is the kind of thing that can end perfectly good relationships and marriages and it means she was willing to cheat on Rory.
Checkmate
Commodore
Again, it's because of the way she acted that made it come out of nowhere. If she showed interested, made a pass, or even flirted a little more heavily with him, that would have been one thing. But she was practically ready to rape him in that scene. Full on cock-starved, horny, superslut. With no real catalyst for it other than random handwavium.
She was flirting with him constantly throughout the preceding three episodes.
... this is how you describe a woman who kisses a man? Who restricts her attempts to remove his clothes to his suspenders, never once touching his pants or shirt? Who never even takes off her shoes, let alone her shirt or pants?
I'm sorry, but if you think that's being "full on cock-starved," you need to attend a frat party or two. Amy's actions were incredibly tame.
NOT NEEDED? OMG. It was AWESOME. It made me FALL in love with the character of Rory--he stayed by her said for 2000 years. That's beautiful, amazing, and a greater sacrifice than ANY character in Doctor Who.
Even the Doctor couldn't do that. Remember The Girl in the Fireplace--at the end he was freaking out about not being able to leave anytime he wanted.
This complication gives Rory a story ARC. Someplace to start (man, my fiance is in love with this super fantastic guy) and a someplace to end (I AM a hero, I can be just as super fantastic as this other guy.)
So, yeah, this "complication" was needed. It's called story.
OK, explain to how Amy coming on to the Doctor has ANYTHING to do with Auton Rory staying with the Pandorica for 2000 years, the two events aren't related. And Rory didn't think of what he was doing as being heroic so I don't know where you're getting that from, Rory simply loved Amy but by going after the Doctor on the eve of her weddinig I have to wonder about her feelings for him.
The notion of sex with somebody else having no meaning is an odd one at best. Rory wasn't too thrilled about Amy kissing the Doctor so you think he'd be OK with the Doctor having sex with her?
In addition to many fine points here, I'd like to add a bit of textual analysis here: for a scene that's being harped on as being too "racy" and "scandalous," it sure does a good job of showing kids that you don't need sex to be the Doctor, and that their hero is above such concerns to begin with.
The scene is fine as it is.
The scene is fine as it is.
Okay so what I'm getting from this thread is basically that the majority of fans don't like the "shipper" related stuff and that it should be taken out of the series entirely and this triggers over analysis of a scene that really was meant to be comedic than anything else.
I think people have been entirely too critical and missed the point about the relationship between Amy, The Doctor, and Rory. Fans seem to have painted Amy as being some kind of slut for carrying on the way she did towards the Doctor. I guess none of you have been infatuated with someone before.
I think that we could compare this triangle with another triangle...that of Rose, The Doctor, and Mickey. Rose fell in love with The Doctor over a gradual amount of time while she was already in an implied serious long term relationship with Mickey. As Rose grew closer to the Doctor and their bond formed, she began drifting away from Mickey. Mickey though realized that there wasn't any way he could compare to the Doctor and let Rose go, begrudgingly so mind you but he did and found himself in the process. Rose was his linchpin but she was also in the way of evolving as a character.
Rory started out Mickey-esque but instead of simply folding his tent and going home, he already was established and knew himself and all that jazz, he was in love with Amy and was willing to fight for her. He proved himself and in doing so evolved as a character and become a better person. His rivalry with the Doctor brought out the best in him and made Amy realize that the two of them were meant to be together. The Doctor is a fairy tale concept for Amy, built up from her first impressions of him when she met him as a child. Rose never had that kind of infatuation OR that amount of time to build up any expectations either. Anyways that's my assessment. I see nothing wrong with the character dynamic or the relationship elements within Doctor Who. For me it just adds another interesting reason to continue watching.
I think people have been entirely too critical and missed the point about the relationship between Amy, The Doctor, and Rory. Fans seem to have painted Amy as being some kind of slut for carrying on the way she did towards the Doctor. I guess none of you have been infatuated with someone before.
I think that we could compare this triangle with another triangle...that of Rose, The Doctor, and Mickey. Rose fell in love with The Doctor over a gradual amount of time while she was already in an implied serious long term relationship with Mickey. As Rose grew closer to the Doctor and their bond formed, she began drifting away from Mickey. Mickey though realized that there wasn't any way he could compare to the Doctor and let Rose go, begrudgingly so mind you but he did and found himself in the process. Rose was his linchpin but she was also in the way of evolving as a character.
Rory started out Mickey-esque but instead of simply folding his tent and going home, he already was established and knew himself and all that jazz, he was in love with Amy and was willing to fight for her. He proved himself and in doing so evolved as a character and become a better person. His rivalry with the Doctor brought out the best in him and made Amy realize that the two of them were meant to be together. The Doctor is a fairy tale concept for Amy, built up from her first impressions of him when she met him as a child. Rose never had that kind of infatuation OR that amount of time to build up any expectations either. Anyways that's my assessment. I see nothing wrong with the character dynamic or the relationship elements within Doctor Who. For me it just adds another interesting reason to continue watching.
Remember the 11th Hour where she basically stared at the doctor whilst he got nekkid with a wry smile on her face? It's pretty much implied from the start that she has sexual feelings for him, which isn't really surprising given he was probably her first love (even before she was aware of her sexuality he was a fantasy figure in her life so who knows how she started to view him once puberty began.)
As for the catalyst, the catalyst was that she'd just almost died, and as a result got extremely horny! All her fears and fantasies merged togeather at that one point. Traumatic situations have strange effects on people (just check out birthrates 9 months after major disasters/incidents!)
I know people like to equate sex with love, but you have to accept that not everyone sees it this way, and many can seperate the physical and emotional acts, which is clearly what Amy was doing there; she didn't profess her great love for the Doctor, or say she wanted to marry him, she just wanted a shag right there at that minute, having survived death at the hands of the angels, with the man she'd been fantasising about in myriad ways since she was a small child, on the eve of her wedding to a man she clearly loves but just isn't sure she loves enough, or that she wants to bind herself to him and Ledworth for life.
In many respects at that moment Amy is probably the most realistic companion we've ever had: flawed, scared, horny, confused. She's a flirty individual, maybe too flirty at times, and Rory has clearly been a bit of a doormat in their relationship (although you can almost imagine that at times he must be the one that wears the trousers, the sensible practical one).
You only have to take the fact that in The Doctor and Vincent, Van Gough with his increible perception saw she was crying, saw she was sad, even though she wasn't showing any signs. The woman loves Rory so much she was sad at his death despite forgetting he even existed!
My basic interpretation of the scene was that it was something of a reaction against the Doctor/Rose romance of the 1st 4 seasons. When Amy presented herself in that way to the Doctor and he rejected her, I saw that as the show saying that this ISN'T going to be a Rose rehash.
And in Amy's defense, I don't think she was looking to sleep with another man. She was looking to fulfill a sexual extrapolation of a childhood fantasy with someone that I don't think she could view as being completely real. It's like trying to shag a fictional character.
Part of Amy's development is learning the difference between the kind of relationship that she could have with Rory vs. the kind she could have with the Doctor. As close as Amy & the Doctor might get, there's no chance for emotional intimacy there. The 11th Doctor is too closed off. (Again, I think that's something of a reaction against the needyness of the 10th Doctor.) I view "Amy's Choice" as less of a coice between 2 men and more of a choice between what they represent-- the emotional intimacy & potential domestic boredom of Rory or the superficial exciting adventuring with the Doctor. In the end, she picked Rory. The good news is that she can have her cake & eat it too.
I suspect traveling with the Doctor is not the first thing Rory would choose to be doing. But he doesn't hate it and it makes Amy happy. In the end, I think they've found an arrangement that they can live with (at least for the time being).
And in Amy's defense, I don't think she was looking to sleep with another man. She was looking to fulfill a sexual extrapolation of a childhood fantasy with someone that I don't think she could view as being completely real. It's like trying to shag a fictional character.
Part of Amy's development is learning the difference between the kind of relationship that she could have with Rory vs. the kind she could have with the Doctor. As close as Amy & the Doctor might get, there's no chance for emotional intimacy there. The 11th Doctor is too closed off. (Again, I think that's something of a reaction against the needyness of the 10th Doctor.) I view "Amy's Choice" as less of a coice between 2 men and more of a choice between what they represent-- the emotional intimacy & potential domestic boredom of Rory or the superficial exciting adventuring with the Doctor. In the end, she picked Rory. The good news is that she can have her cake & eat it too.
I suspect traveling with the Doctor is not the first thing Rory would choose to be doing. But he doesn't hate it and it makes Amy happy. In the end, I think they've found an arrangement that they can live with (at least for the time being).
Similar threads
