I agree, but we can't really know what will survive to the future. I mean, would you really want to watch Picard listening "Spin me right round"?
Why is the music in star trek only classically.
- Thread starter KJbushway
- Start date
I agree, but we can't really know what will survive to the future. I mean, would you really want to watch Picard listening "Spin me right round"?
English? ENGLISH?
Maybe.
But I have to admit that I wouldn't mind seeing Data strapped on a Les Paul playing the beginning riffs to Led Zepplin's Whole Lotta Love.
That would have been awesome.
Heh, In an early episode of "Lost In Space" Billy Mumy as Will Robinson played an acoustic guitar and sang "Greensleeves". IIRC, Mumy actually can play the guitar.
For those who mentioned folk music being in TNG, what are some examples of this? I remember Riker's jazz but I don't recall any folk music. Just curious.
Robert
In-universe: Classical and folk music is more cultural and thus appeals to intellectuals, which Star Fleet is full of.
Real-world: You don't have to pay royalties for classical music. That's why in a lot of other movies/tv they'll sing "For He's a Jolly Good Fellow" instead of "Happy Birthday."
Real-world: You don't have to pay royalties for classical music. That's why in a lot of other movies/tv they'll sing "For He's a Jolly Good Fellow" instead of "Happy Birthday."
Good Lord. I had no idea the song “Happy Birthday to You” was still legally copyrighted. Considering the song's history, the whole thing seems ridiculous.
^ If memory serves the royalties on it are beyond outlandish too.
There have been instances in Trek where "Real World" (notable) music was used...
*In TUC, they tried to score permission to use Gustav Holst's - "The Planets" in the soundtrack, however they couldn't secure it, nonetheless, Leonard Rosenman, incorporated similar themes into the overall score
*The "Yellowjackets" (a personal fave of mine) contributed two songs to TVH soundtrack, this band were also quite a big deal at the time
*In STXI, "The Beastie Boys" are featured in the films score, along with some original compositions by JJ Abrams (credited as "Cyrano Jones"
) himself (most notably the bar scene)
*In TUC, they tried to score permission to use Gustav Holst's - "The Planets" in the soundtrack, however they couldn't secure it, nonetheless, Leonard Rosenman, incorporated similar themes into the overall score
*The "Yellowjackets" (a personal fave of mine) contributed two songs to TVH soundtrack, this band were also quite a big deal at the time
*In STXI, "The Beastie Boys" are featured in the films score, along with some original compositions by JJ Abrams (credited as "Cyrano Jones"
) himself (most notably the bar scene)
I always get a kick out of the one where Riker is taking requests, and Troi keeps on shouting, "Night. Bird."
Would have liked to have seen him try "Giant Steps," if not for copyright.
Is this also why people in Trek only read Shakespeare and Moby Dick, or pseudopigraphic detective novels?
Would have liked to have seen him try "Giant Steps," if not for copyright.
Is this also why people in Trek only read Shakespeare and Moby Dick, or pseudopigraphic detective novels?
Apparently this means Stanley Kubrick had to pay the "Happy Birthday" royalties.
Robert
I wonder if Frakes wrote "Nightbird" or it was a generic Jazz piece written by Dennis McCarthy, etc?
Frakes is quite an awesome musician and he has actually played many of the Trombone scenes in TNG himself along with the Blues/Jazz piece he duets with the four armed woman in "Unification"
Frakes is quite an awesome musician and he has actually played many of the Trombone scenes in TNG himself along with the Blues/Jazz piece he duets with the four armed woman in "Unification"
Yep. The royalties for that song have really messed things up for a lot of films. For example, there is a wonderful documentary/film about Martin Luther King done by PBS that is built around a home movie of family and friends singing the song to him. It has only been shown two or three times because they can't afford to pay the royalties. Of course they can't cut the song out since the entire film is built around that scene.
And for me, that Beastie Boys song in the last movie just pulled me right out of the film. Don't get me wrong. I love that song. It just didn't work for me plopped in the middle of the 23rd Century.
Cliff Eidelman. Rosenman did TVH.
I see...you actually think human nature will change!
Sorry, but the best I can see is that outright aggressive might shift to passive-aggressive in some circumstances.
First of all, rock music doesn't fit into Star Trek, or have we already forgotten how much everybody loved "Faith of the Heart"?
Secondly, if Star Trek was destroyed by having rock music in it, that would only lead to music replacement in any future DVD releases.
And we all know how much everybody loves that, right?
Secondly, if Star Trek was destroyed by having rock music in it, that would only lead to music replacement in any future DVD releases.
And we all know how much everybody loves that, right?
It took me out some too, although I do see how it works as a character moment for Kirk.
I really didn't like Zefram Cochrane's tunes of choice in FC either, though like the Kirk scene it does work in a way. There's just something cheesy about using rock in Star Trek, I'm not sure why.
I literally didn't watch this show because of its completely incongruous, just plain wrong choice for its theme song. I know I'm not alone in that, and wonder how much ENT's ratings were hurt overall by this choice alone. First impressions being what they are.
If you think Star Trek and rock are incompatible, then you really don't understand one or the other.
And "Faith of the Heart" isn't rock. It's more a pop ballad to which they tried to add some drums.
The reason no one sings "Happy Birthday" in restaurants is because they were being sued-- for not paying royalties. Now we have wrong sounding birthday songs (to paraphrase Stewie Griffin).
IMO, the song worked very well to convey the rebellious mood of the scene.
I'd argue that rock could work in Star Trek, but there are some fundamentally different creative conceits that Trek would need.
For one thing, in general, Star Trek would need to be acted and filmed in a way that's less overtly stately, less reserved, less sanitized. Rock is inherently a visceral sort of music, and modern Trek -- basically anything from the Berman era -- tends to be averse to that which is visceral. If Trek is more emotional, rock can work.
And that's the key, really -- making Trek more emotional, less stoic. That's why it really worked to have the Beastie Boys in ST09 -- because J.J.'s new adaptation is much more visceral, isn't as afraid of human emotion, isn't as sanitized and self-consciously stately, as Berman-era Star Trek. It's much more human, that way, and rock'n'roll fits better as a result.
And if you do that, that opens the doors to a lot of good, time-tested rock'n'roll that can be used effectively. The Rolling Stones, Elton John, Eric Clapton, Led Zepplin, Janis Joplin, Jefferson Airplane, Mowtown, Jimmy Hendrix, Nirvana, Pink Floyd, Bob Dylan, Queen, Crosby Stills Nash and Young, the Who, Aretha Franklin, the Police, Sting, Bruce Springsteen, and the Beatles -- especially the Beatles -- are all wonderful artists whose work covers a wide emotional and intellectual range. They can all be called upon in an episode or film for use as emotive, commentary-laiden music, or even as music within a scene if you have a character who's familiar with the mid-to-late 20th Century a la Tom Paris. More modern artists like Alanis Morrissette or Sarah McLachlan could also be used, though it would be important to use them much more sparingly -- if it's an artist who hasn't been thoroughly established as a genuine classic like the ones above, I'd suggest that it's generally a bad idea to use a recently popular song, and that it would be better to use a lesser-known song than one that's been a big hit in the last several years.
And, of course, it would really all depend on what's right for a given scene. You might have a scene where it's really much better to compose an original orchestral work. Buffy the Vampire Slayer did this sort of balancing act brilliantly -- one episode might feature an artist who's been very popular but use a song of theirs that wasn't uber-famous ("Goodbye to You" in "Tabula Rasa"); one episode might feature a classic rock song (The Sundays's cover of the Rolling Stones's "Wild Horses"). Other episodes, though, might use original orchestral compositions -- "Sacrifice" at the finale of "The Gift," for instance, or the "Suite" from "Restless," or "Close Your Eyes" from "Becoming, Part II." It really just depended on what was right for the scene.
And there's really no reason you can't do that on Star Trek, too. Sure, it's set in the future -- but rock music is really just as established as any other kind of music now; it's going to survive, and it's going to produce works that will endure and be considered timeless classics, too. People will still be listening to rock music in 2366. The key is not to over-do it, and not to do it in a way that grounds the episode in whatever decade it was produced in. That's why, for instance, Ronald D. Moore was able to use "All Along the Watchtower" in Battlestar Galactica -- it's such a classic song that's been around so long that as long as you use a cover version, its use does not ground the episode using it in either the 1960s or in the 2000s.
For one thing, in general, Star Trek would need to be acted and filmed in a way that's less overtly stately, less reserved, less sanitized. Rock is inherently a visceral sort of music, and modern Trek -- basically anything from the Berman era -- tends to be averse to that which is visceral. If Trek is more emotional, rock can work.
And that's the key, really -- making Trek more emotional, less stoic. That's why it really worked to have the Beastie Boys in ST09 -- because J.J.'s new adaptation is much more visceral, isn't as afraid of human emotion, isn't as sanitized and self-consciously stately, as Berman-era Star Trek. It's much more human, that way, and rock'n'roll fits better as a result.
And if you do that, that opens the doors to a lot of good, time-tested rock'n'roll that can be used effectively. The Rolling Stones, Elton John, Eric Clapton, Led Zepplin, Janis Joplin, Jefferson Airplane, Mowtown, Jimmy Hendrix, Nirvana, Pink Floyd, Bob Dylan, Queen, Crosby Stills Nash and Young, the Who, Aretha Franklin, the Police, Sting, Bruce Springsteen, and the Beatles -- especially the Beatles -- are all wonderful artists whose work covers a wide emotional and intellectual range. They can all be called upon in an episode or film for use as emotive, commentary-laiden music, or even as music within a scene if you have a character who's familiar with the mid-to-late 20th Century a la Tom Paris. More modern artists like Alanis Morrissette or Sarah McLachlan could also be used, though it would be important to use them much more sparingly -- if it's an artist who hasn't been thoroughly established as a genuine classic like the ones above, I'd suggest that it's generally a bad idea to use a recently popular song, and that it would be better to use a lesser-known song than one that's been a big hit in the last several years.
And, of course, it would really all depend on what's right for a given scene. You might have a scene where it's really much better to compose an original orchestral work. Buffy the Vampire Slayer did this sort of balancing act brilliantly -- one episode might feature an artist who's been very popular but use a song of theirs that wasn't uber-famous ("Goodbye to You" in "Tabula Rasa"); one episode might feature a classic rock song (The Sundays's cover of the Rolling Stones's "Wild Horses"). Other episodes, though, might use original orchestral compositions -- "Sacrifice" at the finale of "The Gift," for instance, or the "Suite" from "Restless," or "Close Your Eyes" from "Becoming, Part II." It really just depended on what was right for the scene.
And there's really no reason you can't do that on Star Trek, too. Sure, it's set in the future -- but rock music is really just as established as any other kind of music now; it's going to survive, and it's going to produce works that will endure and be considered timeless classics, too. People will still be listening to rock music in 2366. The key is not to over-do it, and not to do it in a way that grounds the episode in whatever decade it was produced in. That's why, for instance, Ronald D. Moore was able to use "All Along the Watchtower" in Battlestar Galactica -- it's such a classic song that's been around so long that as long as you use a cover version, its use does not ground the episode using it in either the 1960s or in the 2000s.
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