Really? I'll try to steer away from it. Why would it have tied in with Equinox though? Just curious.
Did anyone else have a problem with Equinox, part two?
- Thread starter HoneyBLilly
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Really? I'll try to steer away from it. Why would it have tied in with Equinox though? Just curious.
Ohhhhh. I think I need to Google this. Memory-Beta is never helpful.
Here's my question:
Can a First Officer relieve a Captian the is emotionally compromised without official consent from the Chief Medical Officer? Doesn't the Doctor have to confirm this before the First Officer can act on it?
Yes the XO can relieve the captain of duty without the CMO's consent. In Star Trek 2009, Spock Prime tells Kirk that to get control of the Enterprise from Spock(and Pike had named him XO for Spock) he has to make him emotionally compromised. Well, he succeeds. But if the first officer feels that the captain is not capable of making a rational decision he/she is within the liberty to relieve him/her of duty. And Chakotay had three chances. Stupid writers.
And all I could think while I was watching this episode was Tom's line in Living Witness: "Come on, First Officer, earn your rank for once."
..but ST 2009 came after Voyager's production.
So maybe it wasn't Voyager's writers but those of the film that changed the rules. The reason I asked, is because the Treks before this made it seem a captain couldn't be relieved without CMO's consent.
I those it has to be a medical one to confirm something such as emotional distress.
I get that they wanted to show her as "crossing the line, " like Picard in FC or something, but they took it too far. You can disagree with the interpretation of events, but she basically committed ATTEMPTED MURDER against Lessing, and I think her righteous outrage comes off as pretty hypocritical if she's going to turn around and do THAT.
IMO I think that was part of the point.
To show like Ransom, good intentions pave the road to hell.
Both Ransom & Janeway did what they did with good intentions but it was their actions that were morally corrupt.
Wasn't Ransom commiting Lessing to murder too?
Yes, he was. It's the point of Trek, I guess.
But Picard was basically raped by the Borg whereas Janeway just felt betrayed by a fellow captain.
I think that might be right. Because now that I think of 09 Spock actually said the words I have become emotionally compromised. And then he looked over at Bones and said I am no longer fit for duty. Now I'm not sure I he told Bones that because if it was his position as CMO or because he was the next senior officer.
I think I want to move onto her treatment of Chakotay now. Because after seeing this episode, I almost can't blame him for becoming bitter.
It was this that stopped the teepee in his pants from being made every now and then?
Directive 101 (seen in Voy: Meld) is the same as the 5th amendment to the US Constitution. Lessing had the legal right to keep his mouth shut.
Directive 101 (seen in Voy: Meld) is the same as the 5th amendment to the US Constitution. Lessing had the legal right to keep his mouth shut.
I just think the stakes weren't high enough to justify Janeway going insane. If her crew were being tortured or Earth was about to be destroyed I could see Janeway going a bit over the line out of desperation. But almost killing a loyal Starfleet officer because his captain lied to you? WTF? That's why she went nuts - because she was betrayed. The whole part about Ransom killing intelligent life forms and having to uphold the prime directive was her duty as a captain. So what does this say about Janeway? It says that she's unfit for command because she goes insane when someone lies to her!
OK, but she committed a pretty serious offense there, and there's no significant consequence for that, she just fees a little sorry and has a talk with Chakotay. She wasn't under alien influence or mind-controlled or something. She was just really pissed off.
Numbers.
She put one hundred and fifty of her crew in risk of certain death to hand over between 5 and 15 Equinox crewmen to be eaten by the Space beasties.... Oh, no. SHE LIED TO THEM! She really agreed to risk her entire crew to help execute the equinox crew but if she hadn't be a liar liar pants on fire why risk her crew to save negative crew on Equinox?
Numbers
Max Burke sacrificed 150 Starfleet crewmen and a ship capable of a cruising speed of warp 9.75, so that he and his buddy could skip off in a shuttle that maxed (Pun? Nah.)out at warp 4 with barely the shield strength to leave then standing for half an hour.
NUmbers.
Even Ransom sacrificing Voyager's crew of 150 to save possibly 25 of his own crew in the beginning was really really callous and stupid.
Janeways ship was already 25 percent massmurdering terrorist. Voyager was about the only ship in the fleet which would have accepted them unconditionally because Janeway had already lowered it's expectations for decency quite considerably to staff their ship. Another %10 worth of barely serial killers possibly "hunters" depending on the classification of the beasties in question that they could have been animals who could talk rather than people.
I mean they dealt free and fairly (from their side) with the Vidiians after they killed Durst and took one of Neelix's lungs when they should have been in an unqualified state of war with those people.
If Ransom had come clean in the beginning he was still a saint compared to B'Elanna and Chakotay, and considering what he was bringing tot he party, a crew compliment at least as large as the Maquis, then Ransom (or Burke if ransom was confined to quarters for the trip home?) would have shared the XO position with Chakotay knocking Tuvok down the chain of command to third officer, possibly evenly dividing their duties between day shift and night shift... Although with all the additional crew, they might have considered having a three shift rotation?
She put one hundred and fifty of her crew in risk of certain death to hand over between 5 and 15 Equinox crewmen to be eaten by the Space beasties.... Oh, no. SHE LIED TO THEM! She really agreed to risk her entire crew to help execute the equinox crew but if she hadn't be a liar liar pants on fire why risk her crew to save negative crew on Equinox?
Numbers
Max Burke sacrificed 150 Starfleet crewmen and a ship capable of a cruising speed of warp 9.75, so that he and his buddy could skip off in a shuttle that maxed (Pun? Nah.)out at warp 4 with barely the shield strength to leave then standing for half an hour.
NUmbers.
Even Ransom sacrificing Voyager's crew of 150 to save possibly 25 of his own crew in the beginning was really really callous and stupid.
Janeways ship was already 25 percent massmurdering terrorist. Voyager was about the only ship in the fleet which would have accepted them unconditionally because Janeway had already lowered it's expectations for decency quite considerably to staff their ship. Another %10 worth of barely serial killers possibly "hunters" depending on the classification of the beasties in question that they could have been animals who could talk rather than people.
I mean they dealt free and fairly (from their side) with the Vidiians after they killed Durst and took one of Neelix's lungs when they should have been in an unqualified state of war with those people.
If Ransom had come clean in the beginning he was still a saint compared to B'Elanna and Chakotay, and considering what he was bringing tot he party, a crew compliment at least as large as the Maquis, then Ransom (or Burke if ransom was confined to quarters for the trip home?) would have shared the XO position with Chakotay knocking Tuvok down the chain of command to third officer, possibly evenly dividing their duties between day shift and night shift... Although with all the additional crew, they might have considered having a three shift rotation?
Janeway always said that she'd be willing to face any consequences of her actions once she got the crew home.
So she wasn't just a little sorry, she was willing to step up and face whatever they charged her with.
No she didn't?
Did she?
In equinox she said she bent the rules but never broke them.
Of course she'd have to be bipolar (seriously that's the diagnosis for massive self-delusion) to think that she could still say that she'd bent but never broke the rules by the conclusion of Equinox II.
She was willing to let Icheb be executed for trespassing during a joy ride, but mother henned Tom for acts of terrorism running the boy to freedom out past the limits of the injured parties jurisdiction... Or do you think that there's a good reason for terrorists to to blow u/?fire weapons of generous destruction at your own local power plant? And her activity in Devore Space was beyond the pale! Operating an underground rail road in strict defiance of the local laws secreting dread criminals to safe harbour! No matter her excuses, that's exactly what she did! Hells in Prime factors she was supposed to stop, apologise and then hand over Tuvok and Seska for being dick heads who incriminated the entire ship for espionage! But she ran bloodied with guilt after the fact. Keeping the mobile emitter should have seen her jailed for the next 5 centuries. The Cute was a complete violation of the Prime Directive, Kim and Paris had been legally held for cause and Janeway had no right to argue with the local powers using weapons. In Jetrel she showed a designer of weapons of mass destruction how to build his own transporter and use transporter technology to refine his own weapon of mass destruction he was celebrated for... I don't even want to describe what a clusterfuck Distant origin brought forward that janeway could have returned to Earth in seaosn seven only to discover Dinosaurs disintegrating almost the last of the evidence contradicting their religion, and then there's in the flesh where she handed over the weapons technology which was the only mote of resistance holding 8472 at a distance, to 8472!! Which if not treason has to be the most compounded lunacy imaginable. Gods she let Voyagers technology run amok freehold in the Void because it was easier to ignore the Prime Directive to give away technology to potentially harmful assholes who might go on to decimate billions if not sell that technology to assholes who will go on to destroy Billions or trillions because Janeway couldn't stomach breaking the Prime Directive by killing a few dickheads too stupid not to fall for the same trap as Winney the Pooh.
She's a monster!
Ransom should have put her in the Brig.
Did she?
In equinox she said she bent the rules but never broke them.
Of course she'd have to be bipolar (seriously that's the diagnosis for massive self-delusion) to think that she could still say that she'd bent but never broke the rules by the conclusion of Equinox II.
She was willing to let Icheb be executed for trespassing during a joy ride, but mother henned Tom for acts of terrorism running the boy to freedom out past the limits of the injured parties jurisdiction... Or do you think that there's a good reason for terrorists to to blow u/?fire weapons of generous destruction at your own local power plant? And her activity in Devore Space was beyond the pale! Operating an underground rail road in strict defiance of the local laws secreting dread criminals to safe harbour! No matter her excuses, that's exactly what she did! Hells in Prime factors she was supposed to stop, apologise and then hand over Tuvok and Seska for being dick heads who incriminated the entire ship for espionage! But she ran bloodied with guilt after the fact. Keeping the mobile emitter should have seen her jailed for the next 5 centuries. The Cute was a complete violation of the Prime Directive, Kim and Paris had been legally held for cause and Janeway had no right to argue with the local powers using weapons. In Jetrel she showed a designer of weapons of mass destruction how to build his own transporter and use transporter technology to refine his own weapon of mass destruction he was celebrated for... I don't even want to describe what a clusterfuck Distant origin brought forward that janeway could have returned to Earth in seaosn seven only to discover Dinosaurs disintegrating almost the last of the evidence contradicting their religion, and then there's in the flesh where she handed over the weapons technology which was the only mote of resistance holding 8472 at a distance, to 8472!! Which if not treason has to be the most compounded lunacy imaginable. Gods she let Voyagers technology run amok freehold in the Void because it was easier to ignore the Prime Directive to give away technology to potentially harmful assholes who might go on to decimate billions if not sell that technology to assholes who will go on to destroy Billions or trillions because Janeway couldn't stomach breaking the Prime Directive by killing a few dickheads too stupid not to fall for the same trap as Winney the Pooh.
She's a monster!
Ransom should have put her in the Brig.
Er, what?
And I suppose those running the underground railroad for escaped slaves or those smuggling Jews out of Europe during the Holocaust are also in the wrong?
They were already on their way when she found out what happened and who did it. Was she supposed to go back to a planet that explicitly said they were no longer welcome just to teach some crewmembers a lesson?
Just how were they supposed to go hundreds of years into the future to return it?
They were NOT legally held for cause.
It was a chance to bring back some Talaxians who had been killed. She didn't buy into the science involved but let him try anyway. What horror!
"Distant Origin" was not in Season 7 and how was there a way back to Earth in that one?
She honored the truce agreement made with the leader who was killed. it made sense at the time even if there was a poorly conceived episode of revolting holograms to follow...
What? How did she let technology run amok in the void?
Ransom should have had his genocidal ass kicked before kicking himself.
We were. But too fully discuss her actions in Equinox, we have to talk about some of her more questionable actions.
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