Done with Star Trek?

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Of course the movie was successful because it was Star Trek - people were immensely curious about seeing Kirk and Spock again, reinvigorated, and enjoyed the film so much that the WOMs were great and it went on to unprecedented success.

Everyone forgets that the lawn belongs to Paramount, not the fans - and while everyone's invited to picnic there, no one was required to attend.

The festivities went so well, though, that we can expect similar gatherings for the foreseeable future.

 

[JarodRussell]

People say that this film was a great success (and it was financially), but was it a success because it was Star Trek or because TV was plastered with wall-to-wall ads showing cool explosions and space monsters? Was it simply a summer blockbuster or does it have the legs to be an 'enduring' success?

If you even have to ask that question, then you're vastly underestimating the amount of fans that Star Trek has.

I truly believe that it was as successful as it was because it was a Star Trek film. I see commercials for movies all the time that have explosions and monsters, yet I have no desire to see them because I'm simply not interested in whatever subject matter the movie is about.

It was succesful mainly because of the promotion and the people behind it. Abrams/Kurtzman/Orci/Lindelof fans, Quinto fans, Saldana fans, Pegg fans, Urban fans, Bana fans, Greenwood fans, etc... and yeah, Nimoy fans, too. (Frakes, Spiner, Burton, etc... fans are ONLY Star Trek fans, and the fan power of Tom Hardy, Ron Perlman and Dina Meyer is nothing compared to the actors in Trek 09, and who the hell are Stuart Baird and John Logan?). Plus the very aggressive marketing campaign of a scope that has not been seen in Trek before (maybe TMP). Plus a budget of 150 million compared to 60 million (half of which went to Stewart and Spiner). The highlight of the Nemesis marketing was an ET report about Riker and Troi's wedding, and that Data gets to sing!

ANY movie with the ensemble, budget and marketing that nuTrek had would have been immensely successful.

Had they promoted Nemesis with dozens of panels with the actors, director and writers, a Super Bowl spot and the constant claim that is was a new Trek for an entirely new audience (even if that had been a lie), it would have made much more than 40 million domestic. Had they then replaced a no name like Tom Hardy with a more well known actor like Eric Bana, it would have made even more. Without having to change a single line in the script.

 

[Warped9]

But more "get off my lawn."

Not so much "get off my lawn", more like respect the lawn you're playing on.

There you go.

 

[number6]

You're forgetting that the last two ST films were not successful. Of course Paramount is going to spend money to get people to forget the recent failures and check out the new Star Trek film. The film was successful because people came out to see it..many times..including Star Trek fans. Remember them?? Yeah, they came out to see this film too.

 

[number6]

Everyone forgets that the lawn belongs to Paramount, not the fans - and while everyone's invited to picnic there, no one was required to attend.

Because it bears repeating.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Hey, even the folks who virulently disliked it saw it - although a lot of them volunteer very careful stories about how they managed to do this without paying for a ticket (if you believe that, I'll sell you crystals that can power an FTL engine).

 

[JarodRussell]

You're forgetting that the last two ST films were not successful. Of course Paramount is going to spend money to get people to forget the recent failures and check out the new Star Trek film. The film was successful because people came out to see it..many times..including Star Trek fans. Remember them?? Yeah, they came out to see this film too.

Chicken and egg.

 

[number6]

You're forgetting that the last two ST films were not successful. Of course Paramount is going to spend money to get people to forget the recent failures and check out the new Star Trek film. The film was successful because people came out to see it..many times..including Star Trek fans. Remember them?? Yeah, they came out to see this film too.

Chicken and egg.

How is that "chicken and egg?" Do you even know what you're talking about half the time?

Star Trek fans came to see the film. They would have done that regardless. The film was good enough to warrant repeat viewings. This film was in the theatres for 8 months. The average is about 3-4, tops. No amount of promotional money from a film studio is going to keep a film popular enough to enjoy an 8 month run. The world simply doesn't work that way. The film was successful because people came out to see it and enjoyed it enough to keep it running in theatres long after most films have come and gone.

That's not opinion. That is fact.

 

[BillJ]

Hey, even the folks who virulently disliked it saw it - although a lot of them volunteer very careful stories about how they managed to do this without paying for a ticket (if you believe that, I'll sell you crystals that can power an FTL engine).

I disliked it and I paid to see it multiple times. Not going to lie. Even own the Blu-ray.

 

[number6]

Hey, even the folks who virulently disliked it saw it - although a lot of them volunteer very careful stories about how they managed to do this without paying for a ticket (if you believe that, I'll sell you crystals that can power an FTL engine).

I disliked it and I paid to see it multiple times. Not going to lie. Even own the Blu-ray.

At least you're honest about it. I respect that.

 

[Greg Cox]

It really depends on what your perspective is on the newer material produced by Paramount. I can see how alot of fans and supporters of Star Trek feel left behind as Paramount continues to gear the franchise more and more towards general audiences. QUOTE]


Star Trek was always intended for general audiences. It started out as a prime-time series on NBC, for pete's sake.

It was never supposed to be our own little exclusive club.

That, at times, it ended up a cult thing was unintentional . . . and hardly the desired result.

 

[Char Aznable]

This is an interesting thing, however. XI's detractors constantly state that the film wasn't popular with the older, hardcore fans. That is complete bullshit and it must be nice to live in such an ignorant dream world. The people who disliked this movie are so much of a minority that they really don't matter. Literally, only ONE person I know RL disliked the new movie out of the countless friends and people I spoke to. Many of them have now been converted to watch the older shows. Many other's who were older fans thought this was the first true TOS movie.

So, really, it's the haters who seem to not understand what Star Trek's always been about. JJ's not the problem. You all bitch and go, "herp derp! HE'S TURNING IT INTO STARR WARZ! Herp derp!" As if this somehow is supposed to be a bad thing or relevant. TOS and the original Star Wars always shared the same sensibilities of swashbuckling adventure and lovable characters. Just because XI (rightfully) chose not to contain some fucking pretentious message about racism or some shit does not mean it lacks TOS' spirit. Honestly, it's more like TOS than most anything we've seen since 1969. /discussion.

EDIT:

Star Trek was always intended for general audiences. It started out as a prime-time series on NBC, for pete's sake.

It was never supposed to be our own little exclusive club.

That, at times, it ended up a cult thing was unintentional . . . and hardly the desired result.

I posted this nearly exact point in another thread. Excellent that you brought it up here since people seriously need to be reminded of this fact.

 

[BillJ]

Star Trek was always intended for general audiences. It started out as a prime-time series on NBC, for pete's sake.

It was never supposed to be our own little exclusive club.

That, at times, it ended up a cult thing was unintentional . . . and hardly the desired result.

I can't believe anyone at NBC ever saw Star Trek as anything more than a marginal prospect. It was too different from anything else at the time. I applaud the executives that gave Trek a chance, but they were using it to sell color TV's.

 

[Shatnertage]

ANY movie with the ensemble, budget and marketing that nuTrek had would have been immensely successful.

Waterworld, anyone?

Had they promoted Nemesis with dozens of panels with the actors, director and writers, a Super Bowl spot and the constant claim that is was a new Trek for an entirely new audience (even if that had been a lie), it would have made much more than 40 million domestic. Had they then replaced a no name like Tom Hardy with a more well known actor like Eric Bana, it would have made even more. Without having to change a single line in the script.

I don't think that's true (I've never heard anyone say, "Hey, I'm going to see the new Eric Bana movie this weekend"), but even if it was, it wouldn't mean anything. It's like saying that if Nemesis had a big extended communal song and dance number, it would have been a Bollywood hit. Impossible to disprove, and therefore not really a valid point.

 

[Char Aznable]

I can't believe anyone at NBC ever saw Star Trek as anything more than a marginal prospect. It was too different from anything else at the time. I applaud the executives that gave Trek a chance, but they were using it to sell color TV's.

It wasn't marginal though. Plenty of people got into TOS back then and throughout the 70's Most older people I know said they used to watch Star Trek growing up. A small minority are the ones who became the obsessive bunch they later called, "Trekkies."

EDIT:

Not to mention (referencing the post above), making a big budget movie is a big risk. Especially with a franchise THAT HASN'T BEEN SUCCESSFUL IN YEARS. The reason JJ got his huge budget and Stuard Bard or whomever the fuck made NEM didn't was because they trusted that JJ could deliver a quality film. Which he did whether detractors want to believe that or not.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Most of the Trek fans my age that I know (and IRL, I hang out with more people of my own generation that will be found on most Internet social sites) liked the film enormously. The simplest reason is that where Star Trek is concerned they'd rather see an adventure story featuring Kirk and Spock on the Enterprise than anything else that can be labeled "Star Trek."

I loved "City On The Edge Of Forever" as a kid. I loved "A Taste Of Armageddon." But everyone I knew who watched Trek loved "The Doomsday Machine."

 

[BillJ]

I can't believe anyone at NBC ever saw Star Trek as anything more than a marginal prospect. It was too different from anything else at the time. I applaud the executives that gave Trek a chance, but they were using it to sell color TV's.

It wasn't marginal though. Plenty of people got into TOS back then and throughout the 70's Most older people I know said they used to watch Star Trek growing up. A small minority are the ones who became the obsessive bunch they later called, "Trekkies."

Star Trek had already ceased production in the 70's. NBC's concerns were about ratings for the first run episodes and using it as a sixty minute commercial for RCA color televisions. Which is why the show was almost cancelled once and then cancelled.

 

[Greg Cox]

Star Trek was always intended for general audiences. It started out as a prime-time series on NBC, for pete's sake.

It was never supposed to be our own little exclusive club.

That, at times, it ended up a cult thing was unintentional . . . and hardly the desired result.

I can't believe anyone at NBC ever saw Star Trek as anything more than a marginal prospect. It was too different from anything else at the time. I applaud the executives that gave Trek a chance, but they were using it to sell color TV's.

And I'm sure they wanted to sell those tvs to a nice, large audience.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

"I can't believe..." is not really persuasive, is it?

 

[Char Aznable]

Star Trek had already ceased production in the 70's.

What about reruns? That's where TOS really found its audience. Plus, there's TAS to consider. So, my point has been made. TOS was never meant to be a fringe thing and to say other wise is just a way for some people to feel super special awesome because they alone, "get," Star Trek.