What's the general consensus on these episodes around these parts? I rewatched them last night and thought they were decent, nothing spectacular. But everywhere I go on the internet, I bump into someone who tells me they're atrocious.
"Descent"
- Thread starter Quinton O'Connor
- Start date
Personally, I think Part I is fantastic,probably top 30 or 40 in my book. Not classic, but pretty damn good. Part II, however, I thought was pretty bad. A total letdown as a follow-up to "I, Borg" (one of my favorites), and the scenes with Beverly in command were cliche-ridden, predictable, and of very little entertainment value in general.
I havent seen too many people say that the whole thing was awful, seems to me its pretty commonly held though that Part II is what really drags it down.
I havent seen too many people say that the whole thing was awful, seems to me its pretty commonly held though that Part II is what really drags it down.
Come to think of it, those Crusher scenes did get pretty bad. I was expecting more command decisions from her, and less playing up one junior officer over another in a cliche manner.
Yeah, I agree part I is better than part II, not only due to the Dr. Crusher storyline, but also the contrived way they got Data's programming working properly again.
This episode was also criticized for ruining the Borg, but that criticism was less relevant after they just wrote it so that this was an isolated colony of Borg not the whole Collective that was affected.
This episode was also criticized for ruining the Borg, but that criticism was less relevant after they just wrote it so that this was an isolated colony of Borg not the whole Collective that was affected.
Considering in an episode previously in TNG, she helped a scientist develop the shielding technology used to enter a sun without burning up like a crispy critter and at that time the Borg were not only unaware of that technology, but also they were disconnected from the collective and at a disadvantage..... it made sense to me.
Voyager didn't usually have too many suns around when the Borg came after them..... but I can't say I had any issues with Voyager in this regard either, so I'm not sure about the validity of your above argument via comparisons.
By this point we would have already seen Kira giving the orders on DS9, and there was the female captain in Yesterday's Enterprise.
I used to love it when I was a kid, but Descent is one of those episodes that haven't held up well to repeat viewings, especially Part 2. The whole thing is very contrived, including the notion that all senior officers would leave the ship so that the Dr. needs to take command. I dunno. I also don't care much for Data going bad. One Lore is enough.
The first part, though, is kind of entertaining and of course notable for the Stephan Hawking guest spot alone.
The first part, though, is kind of entertaining and of course notable for the Stephan Hawking guest spot alone.
I liked the two part episode, I liked Beverly Crusher's taking command of the 1701-D. However, I must agree with you I was expecting her character to be written with her absolutely barking out orders and the junior officers following.
I remember Part 1's SEASON FINALE preview had a voice-over line that said "ON THE EVE OF AN INCREDIBLE BREAKTHROUGH"....um there was no plot point like that in the episode lol
I think the other reason why they got Bev to command the ship was A) She had the rank and training to command a starship, though very little experience B) They needed officers with tactical, security and combat experience to fight and hunt down the borg/lore/data..... Beverly wasn't ordered to engage the borg ship or fight in anyway..... she was ordered to take the ship and run when it was needed..... it doesn't take a rocket scientist to say "Helm, set course for the transwarp conduit and get us the hell out of here."
But..... she went a couple of steps further, which since she was now commanding the Enterprise, was her prerogative. She used her knowledge of the ship which I imagine she gathered when she experienced that situation where everybody was disappearing off the ship and leaving her to keep things going, and her experience of the shields used to enter suns..... that and she did spend a bit of time on the bridge through the first seasons, so I'm sure she picked up on a number of things to make her a little more then some typical chief medical officer.
But..... she went a couple of steps further, which since she was now commanding the Enterprise, was her prerogative. She used her knowledge of the ship which I imagine she gathered when she experienced that situation where everybody was disappearing off the ship and leaving her to keep things going, and her experience of the shields used to enter suns..... that and she did spend a bit of time on the bridge through the first seasons, so I'm sure she picked up on a number of things to make her a little more then some typical chief medical officer.
It was a fun episode. To see the Borg and Lore. The plot wasn't very good. It was entertaining though. However the directing was terrible. Especially in part 2 when they were approaching the sun. I didn't get any sense of danger. No sweat breaking out. No console exploding or moody lighting.
I also think that it was wrong to disassemble a sentient life form. Lore should have been imprisoned and rehabilitated. I know that is easier said than done but they should have attempted it. And left Lore open for a film with a Descent --ooops-- I mean decent script
I also think that it was wrong to disassemble a sentient life form. Lore should have been imprisoned and rehabilitated. I know that is easier said than done but they should have attempted it. And left Lore open for a film with a Descent --ooops-- I mean decent script
hm. i happened to like Descent too. I thought that was pretty good.
The second part was a letdown for me. Part one is about the Borg, the Federation's greatest foe changing their MO to killing everyone (sort of like a prelude to Star Trek Destiny in a way) and how in hell are we going to fight this. Part two, the Borg become nothing but Lore's mooks. The Borg themselves no longer matter - we could put in a race that makes cybernetic modifications to themselves and there would be very little difference.
It's that bait and switch storytelling that I don't like - if you completely drop the original plot to make way for another one, you've got to make it believable and you've got to explain WHY the new story has overtaken the old one. And while I like seeing Spiner play beyond the eternal straight man, I don't like Lore, and I don't think he's deserving of the role of the main villain of a two parter, and especially not a season ender/opener.
However, I happen to like the Crusher scenes in Part two, if only in the sense that she actually gets to do something for once.
It's that bait and switch storytelling that I don't like - if you completely drop the original plot to make way for another one, you've got to make it believable and you've got to explain WHY the new story has overtaken the old one. And while I like seeing Spiner play beyond the eternal straight man, I don't like Lore, and I don't think he's deserving of the role of the main villain of a two parter, and especially not a season ender/opener.
However, I happen to like the Crusher scenes in Part two, if only in the sense that she actually gets to do something for once.
I think the main reason so many people dislike this episode is because its so uncomfortable watching Brent Spiner play a character like that. We're so used to seeing Data as...well, Data...that seeing him sarcastic and smirking and generally being an ass is really difficult.
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