The TIE Fighter Pilot who Helped the Rebellion.

[Christopher]

^That's fine if it's moving in a straight line. But if it were that simple, Luke would've died, since Vader got off four or five shots at him after getting a target lock. Whatever logic you can apply in the real world, it's explicit within the reality of the film, and indeed of that specific scene, that even the best target lock is not a guarantee of a successful hit. Therefore, the scene's own internal logic provides a simple explanation for why Han hit the wingman instead of Vader.

 

[Lindley]

That's stretching. They weren't flying in that tight a formation.

 

[Admiral_Young]

There's also the question if Anakin was using the Force while he was piloting...I would say not since he missed Luke completely as was already stated. He could sense the force within Luke but I've always been curious if he was using it himself or was just already sure of his own piloting abilities.

 

[Goliath]

When the four TIE fighters attack the Millennium Falcon, after the rescue of Princess Leia, both the fighters and the Falcon repeatedly miss each other at very close range.

Granted, they were both manoeuvring defensively. But whatever computer-assisted targeting technology exists in the Star Wars universe, it obviously isn't worth much.

Which just underlines the fact that Star Wars and its universe are pure fantasy. In 1977, when the film was made, the Royal Navy was already fielding radar-guided Sea Dart surface-to-air missiles that could intercept hostile aircraft at a distance of more than 70 kilometres.

So, we're supposed to believe that these people can build VTOL spaceships that can fly both in atmospheres and outer space, as well as between the stars, but they can't build a guided missile--forcing them to dogfight like WWII Mustangs and Messerschmitts.

It makes for exciting cinema, but there's no point in thinking about it too deeply.

 

[Christopher]

Exactly. You might as well nitpick the physics of a Quidditch match. The reason Vader didn't hit Luke is the same as the reason Solo didn't hit Vader: because both characters needed to survive the battle. There's no more logic behind it than that.

 

[I Grok Spock]

What makes even less sense is that Vader gets off a bunch of shots at Luke (after he says "I have you now") and they don't seem to do anything at all.

What makes even less sense than that is that they give some farmboy who's only flown the equivalent of an atmospheric crop-duster the keys to a military space-superiority fighter.

 

[FluffyUnbound]

There's also the question if Anakin was using the Force while he was piloting...I would say not since he missed Luke completely as was already stated. He could sense the force within Luke but I've always been curious if he was using it himself or was just already sure of his own piloting abilities.

I always thought that when Vader says, "The Force is strong with this one," it meant that he was feeling the active opposition of the Force trying to prevent him from hitting Luke's ship.

Luke would have been at 110% adrenaline at that point and if there was ever a time that your "unconscious Force ability" would be trying to help you out, it was then.

 

[Silvercrest]

I Grok Spock wrote:
What makes even less sense than that is that they give some farmboy who's only flown the equivalent of an atmospheric crop-duster the keys to a military space-superiority fighter.

Same level of Rebel desperation (and story logic, not to mention type of movie) that let them do it again in Independence Day.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

I Grok Spock wrote:
What makes even less sense than that is that they give some farmboy who's only flown the equivalent of an atmospheric crop-duster the keys to a military space-superiority fighter.

Same level of Rebel desperation (and story logic, not to mention type of movie) that let them do it again in Independence Day.

Pick your poison. Which is more preposterous? That a drunken hick like Randy Quaid would be allowed to fly an advanced military jet fighter? Or the original ending where said drunken hick is able to maneuver his crop duster into position to make a successful suicide run on the advanced alien ship?

 

[Silvercrest]

Are you kidding? If we play the "what's more preposterous" game with that movie, someone's head is going to explode.

 

[PsychoPere]

What makes even less sense than that is that they give some farmboy who's only flown the equivalent of an atmospheric crop-duster the keys to a military space-superiority fighter.

There's a space station the size of a small moon headed towards your once-secret base. Said space station has the ability to blow up entire planets, and you know already that your enemy is entirely willing -- hell, perhaps even eager -- to use that weapon. There is a slim chance, based entirely on a design flaw, that your pilots may be able to take out this station before it can fire and destroy the planet you're on. Even if the strike force isn't able to take it out prior to blowing you to hell, maybe they'll at least take it out after -- you'll still be dead, but at least the Imperials won't have the weapon anymore. In such a situation, you need everyone who can fly to get up there. Even if this new guy isn't the greatest pilot in the galaxy, he'd at least be another body to thin the ranks of the enemy's defending fighters and maybe his death would buy another pilot the time needed to destroy the station.

In short: desperation, as Silvercrest said.

 

[Trekker4747]

Exactly. You might as well nitpick the physics of a Quidditch match. The reason Vader didn't hit Luke is the same as the reason Solo didn't hit Vader: because both characters needed to survive the battle. There's no more logic behind it than that.

I've read a lot of screen writing books. That there? Is bad screen writing. If the reason why something happens is because the plot needs it to happen then that's just bad writing. It has to, and should, make sense "in universe." And by "in universe" it means the "universe" established in the movie itself (not explained by later movies, shows, books, etc.)

So in the movie itself, why did Han not shoot at the lead ship and why was Vader's aim so bad on his ship? Saying "the plot needs that to happen" isn't a good answer.

 

[Goliath]

Exactly. You might as well nitpick the physics of a Quidditch match. The reason Vader didn't hit Luke is the same as the reason Solo didn't hit Vader: because both characters needed to survive the battle. There's no more logic behind it than that.

I've read a lot of screen writing books. That there? Is bad screen writing. If the reason why something happens is because the plot needs it to happen then that's just bad writing. It has to, and should, make sense "in universe." And by "in universe" it means the "universe" established in the movie itself (not explained by later movies, shows, books, etc.)

So in the movie itself, why did Han not shoot at the lead ship and why was Vader's aim so bad on his ship? Saying "the plot needs that to happen" isn't a good answer.

You just answered your own question. There's no reason.

You're essentially saying: "This is bad writing--so let's find some way to pretend it's good writing."

Is it so hard to admit that the ending of Star Wars was sloppily written, and relied on visual razzle-dazzle to get around its own lack of internal consistency?

 

[The Wormhole]

I'm surprised the guy doesn't have a name and EU backstory already. I'm sure he'll get one now that he's had attention drawn to him.

Oh, but he does.

Huh, so even in the EU the guy was killed in the Battle of Yavin? I would have thought after ramming Vader and being tossed aside he drifted through emtpy space until he was rescued by a Star Destroyer that just happened to be in the area. The Destroyer was commanded by Grand Admiral Thrawn who felt it his resposibility to train Mr. Mithel better flying. and moved on to be one of Empire's star TIE Fighter pilots and at even turned down an offer to teach at Imperial Flight Academy. Eventually, Mr. Mithel proved to be an influential voice in the ploitics of the new Imperial government following the defeat of the Emperor at Endor and was eventually named a Grand Moff, one of the last few to be named this title. Mr. Mithel was killed defending his home from the Yuuzhan Vong, and his people later erected a statue in his honour at a ceremony in which Wedge Antilles gave a speech commending the kindred spirit of a fellow pilot, even one who fought on the opposing side.

Oh yeah, I know a thing or two about convoluted Star Wars backstories.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Are you kidding? If we play the "what's more preposterous" game with that movie, someone's head is going to explode.

To whit: It came down to Dumb vs. Dumber.

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzoeEdW-EDQ[/yt]

 

[Christopher]

I've read a lot of screen writing books. That there? Is bad screen writing. If the reason why something happens is because the plot needs it to happen then that's just bad writing. It has to, and should, make sense "in universe." And by "in universe" it means the "universe" established in the movie itself (not explained by later movies, shows, books, etc.)

So in the movie itself, why did Han not shoot at the lead ship and why was Vader's aim so bad on his ship? Saying "the plot needs that to happen" isn't a good answer.

See, the mistake you're making is trying to take Star Wars seriously. It's a fairy tale. It admits that right up front: "A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away." Is it bad writing when a fairy tale never provides a detailed technical explanation for why a poison thorn places Sleeping Beauty in ageless suspended animation for a hundred years or why a kiss from Prince Charming can awaken her? Star Wars was never meant to be anything more than a lightweight popcorn movie in the tradition of the '30s Flash Gordon serials. It wasn't trying to be technically realistic on any level. It was just meant to be a fluffy piece of entertainment. No, it's not brilliant or believable writing, but it wasn't trying to be. I don't see any more point in criticizing its technicalities than there is in demanding a detailed engineering analysis for why the Coyote's latest Roadrunner trap blew up in his face.

 

[Goliath]

To whit: It came down to Dumb vs. Dumber.

Just blow up Yavin. Brilliant.

Compared to that, Han shooting the wingman seems pretty trivial.

But really, we all know why Han shot the one wingman, and the other crashed into Vader:

Because it looked fucking cool.

I wonder if audiences nowadays can even appreciate how exciting Star Wars was, back in '77.

Back then, when you thought "spaceships," you thought of the Enterprise from TOS, or the Discovery from 2001.

Lucas, by contrast, gave you monster Star Destroyers, and TIE fighters and X-Wings dogfighting in space, in a movie that was chopped at a frantic pace.

And the final "Dambusters" attack on the Death Star, with the rebel fighters racing down the trench, and Vader in hot pursuit, and John Williams's music pounding and roaring away--for a kid of nine, like myself, this was jaw-dropping to watch. It was mind-blowing.

From a distance of more than thirty years, none of it makes it much sense. But that just doesn't matter. This was mythic stuff--an Iliad and an Odyssey for our times. Only the poetry was visual, rather than verbal.

That's why I've never thought of Star Wars as "Episode IV." "Episode IV," indeed--snort. Try "Episode One and Only." Star Wars was a perfect thing apart. Most of its sequels have only diminished it.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Exactly. You might as well nitpick the physics of a Quidditch match. The reason Vader didn't hit Luke is the same as the reason Solo didn't hit Vader: because both characters needed to survive the battle. There's no more logic behind it than that.

I've read a lot of screen writing books. That there? Is bad screen writing. If the reason why something happens is because the plot needs it to happen then that's just bad writing. It has to, and should, make sense "in universe." And by "in universe" it means the "universe" established in the movie itself (not explained by later movies, shows, books, etc.)

So in the movie itself, why did Han not shoot at the lead ship and why was Vader's aim so bad on his ship? Saying "the plot needs that to happen" isn't a good answer.

I can bullshit up an answer if you like.

Watch as I dazzle you with my amazing CGI recreation of the Death Star run:

Han was just clearing the fighters trailing Luke one at a time. If they hadn't all plowed into each other he would have gone after Vader next and the one closest to the left side wall after that when he was lined up with the trench.

As far as Vader not hitting Luke, if the Force can guide Luke's shot into the thermal exhaust port, what's to say that it can't guide Vader's shots away from killing his son, or that Vader himself subconsciously sensed their connection and avoided killing him, just as he consciously did in the subsequent films.

 

[Trekker4747]

"The Force did it" is a reasonable enough and acceptable enough explanation for the shots in the trench run for me. At least "The Force" in terms of how it is in the OT. But with the PT and adding that The Force is generated by microbes in the body...

Han's shots into the trench? Well, I guess there's any number of explanations on why he didn't do it. Maybe he simply didn't realize that the TIE-Advanced was Vader and he just took out the wingmen? But any EU stuff to explain things is complete bullshit, IMHO.

I'll accept "The Force did it" as an answer for things, it goes along with what Christopher was trying to say in regards to SW being "a fairy tale." We don't question fairy tale things because sometimes these things "have to exist" for the plot to work. But there's a world of difference, IMHO, between "The Force did it" and "it had to happen for the plot to work."

 

[Lindley]

But with the PT and adding that The Force is generated by microbes in the body...

The microbes only grant the user access to the Force, they don't create it.

But any EU stuff to explain things is complete bullshit, IMHO.

I'm not sure if there's been any effort to "explain" this particular quirk in the EU; the fact that it happens to wind up making sense when you consider that T/As have shields is merely convenient.