Tardis exteior in the Time Vortex?

[Sci]

Does the TARDIS even have a "real" exterior? If the TARDIS' doorway can be thought of as a bridge between the worlds outside the TARDIS and the world inside the TARDIS, then perhaps the "exterior" is nothing more than a frame projected around the portal between them, serving no other function than to help outsiders identify the location of the ship. The TARDIS exterior might resemble something as simple as a hollow door frame... or it might not exist at all.

Yeah, I'm of that mind, as well. Also, any Police Box shots we see in the vortex are merely there to help the viewer comprehend what they are supposed to be seeing...the TARDIS traveling...

Except that in "Utopia," we saw Captain Jack clinging to the exterior of the police box as it flew through the Time Vortex. So, yeah, the police box exterior is "actually" in the vortex.

* * *

As for whether or not the TARDIS has an exterior, or whether or not the TARDIS is located in a pocket dimension or pocket universe or what-have-you...

I think it's all within the realm of perfectly legitimate differences of opinion. But I don't think it has an exterior, or that there's a pocket dimension.

I think it's just bigger on the inside and that's all there is to it.

 

[Kelso]

I think it's just bigger on the inside and that's all there is to it.

Exactly.

 

[The]

^Right on. I'd forgotten about the Jack scene.

 

[starsuperion]

Does the TARDIS even have a "real" exterior? If the TARDIS' doorway can be thought of as a bridge between the worlds outside the TARDIS and the world inside the TARDIS, then perhaps the "exterior" is nothing more than a frame projected around the portal between them, serving no other function than to help outsiders identify the location of the ship. The TARDIS exterior might resemble something as simple as a hollow door frame... or it might not exist at all.

Yeah, I'm of that mind, as well. Also, any Police Box shots we see in the vortex are merely there to help the viewer comprehend what they are supposed to be seeing...the TARDIS traveling...

Except that in "Utopia," we saw Captain Jack clinging to the exterior of the police box as it flew through the Time Vortex. So, yeah, the police box exterior is "actually" in the vortex.

* * *

As for whether or not the TARDIS has an exterior, or whether or not the TARDIS is located in a pocket dimension or pocket universe or what-have-you...

I think it's all within the realm of perfectly legitimate differences of opinion. But I don't think it has an exterior, or that there's a pocket dimension.

I think it's just bigger on the inside and that's all there is to it.

well said sci.. well said..

however, if you will indulge me a little??

Not to make you try to change your mind, you are certainly entitled to your own opinion..

just for a moment.. think of it from this perspective..

the tardis if it were just "bigger on the inside" as you have stated, it would then not be able to be in a separate dimension.. in order for the inside to just be bigger then the box would have to be bigger..

in the series the invasion of time, I believe..

the doctor explains to Leela the the two boxes are farther apart.. thus the larger one is then the inside and the smaller one the outside..if you could keep the two far apart, and yet together then you have the tardis..

if the tardis is to have an interior that is larger and in another dimension, then that dimension is separate from the police box, and hence is thus not a part of the box, rather a separate construct.. so it should then be a ship of some sort..

It can not simply just be bigger on the inside, because it could not exist as an object..the exterior would have to be as big as the inside..

two separate objects in different places tied by one gateway, doorway, or box..that is the simple definition of the tardis.. and because of this, it is bigger on the inside.

again, you are entitled to your opinion sci, and I am glad you stick to your ideas, and beliefs..

but just take a moment and think about it from what I have stated..the box can not just simply be bigger on the inside, cause it would need that inside to be in another dimension.. because that "interior" is in another dimension, it has to have it's own structure..like a house..

the doorway to the house is all people see from the street, while the rest is cloaked invisible..once through the door, you see the inside of the massive house..if you were to go outback and check out the back of the house form the back yard you can see the exterior..if you back up too far, and fall into the neighbors yard, the house disappears.. and all you see is the door.. the door is not simply bigger on the inside.. it is the house that is bigger..

the same principle applies here, only this house the tardis, has engines which propel it through time and space.. and the house isn't invisible, it is in another dimension..which you could see through watch towers..

Damn!!

Moffat should give us a glimpse of the exterior through a watch tower while giving Amy Pond a tour..

 

[The]

I think it's just bigger on the inside and that's all there is to it.

According to The Eleventh Doctor....

From Vampires in Venice

DOCTOR (to Rory): "It's a lot to take in, isn't it? Tiny box, HUGE room inside. What's that all about? Let me explain--"

RORY: "It's another dimension."

DOCTOR: "--it's basically another dimension..."

 

[Brent]

the doctor explains to Leela the the two boxes are farther apart.. thus the larger one is then the inside and the smaller one the outside..if you could keep the two far apart, and yet together then you have the tardis..

That is true, I remember that serial, he told Leela that in the brown secondary control room, that is the explanation right there

Here, I found it on youtube:

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvnKXOGYKM8[/yt]

Notice he says "Trans-dimensional" Engineering

 

[Sci]

I think it's just bigger on the inside and that's all there is to it.

According to The Eleventh Doctor....

From Vampires in Venice

DOCTOR (to Rory): "It's a lot to take in, isn't it? Tiny box, HUGE room inside. What's that all about? Let me explain--"

RORY: "It's another dimension."

DOCTOR: "--it's basically another dimension..."

"Basically" can mean a lot of different things -- who knows what he's modifying for the sake of making things more "basic" so a Human can understand them? (That, and "dimension" doesn't automatically mean "alternate universe" -- it can just refer to the spatial characteristics of an object rather than the more science fiction-y concept of a separate universe.)

As for whether or not the TARDIS has an exterior, or whether or not the TARDIS is located in a pocket dimension or pocket universe or what-have-you...

I think it's all within the realm of perfectly legitimate differences of opinion. But I don't think it has an exterior, or that there's a pocket dimension.

I think it's just bigger on the inside and that's all there is to it.

well said sci.. well said..

however, if you will indulge me a little??

Not to make you try to change your mind, you are certainly entitled to your own opinion..

No worries, I'm certainly not offended by your presenting your argument.

just for a moment.. think of it from this perspective..

the tardis if it were just "bigger on the inside" as you have stated, it would then not be able to be in a separate dimension.. in order for the inside to just be bigger then the box would have to be bigger..

It wouldn't have to be bigger so that the inside could be bigger. I'm sure there's some special Time Lord-y thing that they do things like the TARDIS to make them bigger on the inside than on the out without putting it into a pocket universe that you and I just wouldn't understand.

Moffat should give us a glimpse of the exterior through a watch tower while giving Amy Pond a tour..

Setting aside our disagreement here, even if I was into the "pocket dimension" theory, I wouldn't like that. It makes us a little too familiar with the TARDIS. Familiarity undermines awe. Less is more; the TARDIS should always feel fundamentally mysterious and alien. We should never learn too much about it. Like the Doctor.

It can not simply just be bigger on the inside, because it could not exist as an object..the exterior would have to be as big as the inside..

Only if you think the dimensions of an object have to be consistent.

Yes, an object whose interior volume is vastly larger than its exterior area is completely impossible in real life, but why should that stop us from thinking the Time Lords have figured out some technology that undermines our fundamental understanding of physical reality? "Like Alice, I try to believe three impossible things before breakfast."

again, you are entitled to your opinion sci, and I am glad you stick to your ideas, and beliefs..

but just take a moment and think about it from what I have stated..the box can not just simply be bigger on the inside, cause it would need that inside to be in another dimension.. because that "interior" is in another dimension, it has to have it's own structure..like a house..

You've outlined exactly why I think the TARDIS is just bigger on the inside. The very impossibility of it is why I think that's the case rather than this "other universe/pocket dimension" explanation. Which, that explanation is perfectly reasonable (and is probably the creative intent in "Vampires of Venice" and certainly the creative intent in Invasion of Time). But it's lacking one thing for it that, "No, no pocket dimensions, it's just bigger on the inside than the out" has going for it:

It's just more fun that way.

 

[The]

I think it's just bigger on the inside and that's all there is to it.

According to The Eleventh Doctor....

From Vampires in Venice

DOCTOR (to Rory): "It's a lot to take in, isn't it? Tiny box, HUGE room inside. What's that all about? Let me explain--"

RORY: "It's another dimension."

DOCTOR: "--it's basically another dimension..."

"Basically" can mean a lot of different things -- who knows what he's modifying for the sake of making things more "basic" so a Human can understand them? (That, and "dimension" doesn't automatically mean "alternate universe" -- it can just refer to the spatial characteristics of an object rather than the more science fiction-y concept of a separate universe.)

Wow, you can really spin denial can't you?

 

[Kelso]

The Tardis works on the same principle as Santa Claus' sack of presents.

Trying to explain it scientifically spoils the magic, and makes it seem like yet another piece of technobabbly scifi hardware. Next we'll be trying to explain how chronoton particles affect the subspace bubble of the pocket universe while it travels inter-dimensionally. blech.

I don't care how it works, so long as my present is inside.

 

[Robert D. Robot]

^ We have seen TARDISes take on many forms, but usually as an object of a "moderate" size and weight. I suppose that a TARDIS could take on the form of a smaller, lighter object. Like a suitcase? Like a large sac..... !!!!

Wait.... are you meaning to imply that....

The Doctor....
The Master.....
The Rani....
The Meddling Monk...

.... The Santa!?!

 

[The]

The Tardis works on the same principle as Santa Claus' sack of presents.

Trying to explain it scientifically spoils the magic, and makes it seem like yet another piece of technobabbly scifi hardware. Next we'll be trying to explain how chronoton particles affect the subspace bubble of the pocket universe while it travels inter-dimensionally. blech.

I don't care how it works, so long as my present is inside.

And there are a few fans like you out there, as well. That's cool. Enjoy the fan mystery. Just avoid the previous moments in the series history that's explained it in scientific terms....ish.

I guess it's like Creationism and Science :

God said let there be light, and there was light.

An in-rush of hydrogen into a vacuum created the Big Bang / a separate universe "bumped" into our causing The Big Bang (2009 M-Theory related).

They're both right, just with two defining perspectives. God said let there be light, and BANG! The Big Bang occurs.

So, with that thought: The TARDIS is a "magical box that is bigger on the inside than the outside thanks to the mecurial whims of fantasy.

The interior of the TARDIS lies in a separate pocket dimension constructed by the Time Lords as one of their greatest engineering feats.

They're both right, depending on how you want to define your personal reality...

 

[conorg]

I hope we do get to see the tardis' real exterior...fingers crossed for the upcoming Christmas special

 

[Brent]

I just want to see more of the Interior

 

[starsuperion]

I think it's just bigger on the inside and that's all there is to it.

According to The Eleventh Doctor....

"Basically" can mean a lot of different things -- who knows what he's modifying for the sake of making things more "basic" so a Human can understand them? (That, and "dimension" doesn't automatically mean "alternate universe" -- it can just refer to the spatial characteristics of an object rather than the more science fiction-y concept of a separate universe.)



No worries, I'm certainly not offended by your presenting your argument.



It wouldn't have to be bigger so that the inside could be bigger. I'm sure there's some special Time Lord-y thing that they do things like the TARDIS to make them bigger on the inside than on the out without putting it into a pocket universe that you and I just wouldn't understand.



Setting aside our disagreement here, even if I was into the "pocket dimension" theory, I wouldn't like that. It makes us a little too familiar with the TARDIS. Familiarity undermines awe. Less is more; the TARDIS should always feel fundamentally mysterious and alien. We should never learn too much about it. Like the Doctor.

It can not simply just be bigger on the inside, because it could not exist as an object..the exterior would have to be as big as the inside..

Only if you think the dimensions of an object have to be consistent.

Yes, an object whose interior volume is vastly larger than its exterior area is completely impossible in real life, but why should that stop us from thinking the Time Lords have figured out some technology that undermines our fundamental understanding of physical reality? "Like Alice, I try to believe three impossible things before breakfast."

again, you are entitled to your opinion sci, and I am glad you stick to your ideas, and beliefs..

but just take a moment and think about it from what I have stated..the box can not just simply be bigger on the inside, cause it would need that inside to be in another dimension.. because that "interior" is in another dimension, it has to have it's own structure..like a house..

You've outlined exactly why I think the TARDIS is just bigger on the inside. The very impossibility of it is why I think that's the case rather than this "other universe/pocket dimension" explanation. Which, that explanation is perfectly reasonable (and is probably the creative intent in "Vampires of Venice" and certainly the creative intent in Invasion of Time). But it's lacking one thing for it that, "No, no pocket dimensions, it's just bigger on the inside than the out" has going for it:

It's just more fun that way.

ahh...I see where you are coming from..

there are some of us, who can not enjoy something, unless it has an element or rational of reason to it to be believable.. trying to believe 3 impossible things before breakfast is all fine and dandy, but as the day progresses, one tends to try to figure out a rational reason for one's impossible thinking..it is just human nature, to understand and ask the all important question of why?

I like the question of why, and trying to figure out the answer...to some of us, not all, but some, we need to get a scientific basis to lay as a foundation for the TARDIS, and Time Lord power.. how it works is just as important to how it plays out, because if it is something we can grasp as a concept, and yet is out of our technical range, then we still are in awe, just on a different level..I do not believe in Magic.. Magic makes me choose to simply accept it for fact, and as a science fiction fan, I have to know the who and whys before I entertain a certain amount of fantasy..

it's like DC comics.. superman flies, why? because he can and he is from another planet?? but why?? recently they addressed that and explained how his cells act like a propelling force, which is powered by the suns rays.. like a massive super conducting solar battery..

did this remove the awe form my favourite super hero ever?? nope.. I still think he is intriguing, more so now then before..now I have the possibility that man will one day get to Kryptonian levels in Genetic manipulation and one day humanity may become supermen..

it is the dreams incited by the realism of science fiction that make us strive as a race towards unattainable goals..to simply accept something as magical and fact as is.. just doesn't incite that imagination..

To me, it would be like meeting God face to face, and him showing me the universe, and me leaving to go onward to another existence without ever asking the almighty..Why? what is it all for??

but that is just me..

wikipedia has the Doctor's tardis listed as a pocket universe...(not that it means much, just wanted you to know.. )
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pocket_universe

 

[jbny67]

Wait.... are you meaning to imply that....

The Doctor....
The Master.....
The Rani....
The Meddling Monk...

.... The Santa!?!

Don't forget "The Mary Poppins"

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

The Tardis works on the same principle as Santa Claus' sack of presents.

Trying to explain it scientifically spoils the magic, and makes it seem like yet another piece of technobabbly scifi hardware. Next we'll be trying to explain how chronoton particles affect the subspace bubble of the pocket universe while it travels inter-dimensionally. blech.

I don't care how it works, so long as my present is inside.

Fo'sho.

It's magic — wonderland in a box.

 

[Sci]

The Tardis works on the same principle as Santa Claus' sack of presents.

Trying to explain it scientifically spoils the magic, and makes it seem like yet another piece of technobabbly scifi hardware. Next we'll be trying to explain how chronoton particles affect the subspace bubble of the pocket universe while it travels inter-dimensionally. blech.

I don't care how it works, so long as my present is inside.

And there are a few fans like you out there, as well. That's cool. Enjoy the fan mystery. Just avoid the previous moments in the series history that's explained it in scientific terms....ish.

That's basically what I do. I take the parts where they just say, "It's bigger on the inside" and say pish-posh to the parts that try to "rationally" explain it. For minor details like this, that really don't affect the story being told, I just cherry-pick what I like and ignore the rest. Now, if they start doing a story where the plot depends upon the TARDIS interior being in another dimension, well, then, hey, I guess I'll have to either ignore that episode or stop cherry-picking. But, until then, as far as I'm concerned, the TARDIS is not in another dimension, it's just bigger on the inside.

ahh...I see where you are coming from..

there are some of us, who can not enjoy something, unless it has an element or rational of reason to it to be believable.. trying to believe 3 impossible things before breakfast is all fine and dandy, but as the day progresses, one tends to try to figure out a rational reason for one's impossible thinking..it is just human nature, to understand and ask the all important question of why?

I like the question of why, and trying to figure out the answer...to some of us, not all, but some, we need to get a scientific basis to lay as a foundation for the TARDIS, and Time Lord power.. how it works is just as important to how it plays out, because if it is something we can grasp as a concept, and yet is out of our technical range, then we still are in awe, just on a different level..I do not believe in Magic.. Magic makes me choose to simply accept it for fact, and as a science fiction fan, I have to know the who and whys before I entertain a certain amount of fantasy..

*nods* And I can certainly respect that. I don't believe in magic or the supernatural in real life; that's why I just have some fun with my favorite pieces of fiction, like Doctor Who -- I put all my "magic" in a fictional context and have fun with it there instead of pretending there's magic or the supernatural in reality.

It's just different approaches to fiction -- one side wants the fiction to be completely believable or as close to it as possible, in order to facilitate the make-believe that it "really" could happen, and the other side just makes-believe, damn the details. It's all good.

 

[starsuperion]

It's just different approaches to fiction -- one side wants the fiction to be completely believable or as close to it as possible, in order to facilitate the make-believe that it "really" could happen, and the other side just makes-believe, damn the details. It's all good.

Well said...

I am of this camp: one side wants the fiction to be completely believable or as close to it as possible, in order to facilitate the make-believe that it "really" could happen.

when we make a real tardis someday, the magic camp gets nuked..

And there shall be a great mushroom in the sky, above all the non believers and those of fantasy..LOL