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Blade Runner! Any Good?

I didn't say nobody thought one was better than the other, I myself prefer the Final Cut, I questioned how one could be walk-out bad (i.e. unwatchable) and the other a good film.

No, you didn't.

Yes I did. In fact that is precisely what I did. That was the very first sentence I posted. Since we're in lecture mode professor, I might ask you not to deny that my posts contain content that they clearly do.


Daredevil Theatrical vs Daredevil DC
Chronicles of Riddick Theatrical vs Riddick DC
Kingdom of Heaven Theatrical vs Kingdom of Heaven DC

There are plenty of examples of walkout bad becoming gems on home video...

Not seen example 1 and 3, but would agree that Chronicles of Riddick is much better in it's second incarnation, and would add Dark City to that list as well.

Although I would not describe either as being walk-out bad. The basic building blocks of what makes both films great are present in each version.
 
I liked the pops bit. That was good.

This is one of my boring mantras. Every time a BR thread pops up you get the same people chundering on and on (and on) about how rubbish it is. I wonder why they bother?
 
Have to see Kingdom of Heaven, that was another Ridley Scott film screwed over by the studio. They wanted a theatrical cut that was short to ensure maximum cinema exposure, so out went story and character in favour of CG fight sequences, gutting the movie in the process. The DC is nearly twice the length.

Riddick was cut for the rating, but ironically it was the character stuff that was cut again. I didn't see the point of Thandie Newton in the theatrical cut. She was just window dressing. In the DC she actually had a character, a major motive force in the story. The crime of it is, is that the Theatrical Cut practically killed Riddick as a franchise.

The same is true of Daredevil. I remember the fanboys ripping it a new one when it was released, a lot of it was the pointless love scene with Elektra. Twelve months down the line, the DC comes out, love scene excised, story restored, and people are loving the film again.
 
^ I will check out Kingdom of Heaven, I think it's the only RS film I have not seen yet.

Although, isn't Riddick going into production on a third movie soon? I believe the good response to the DVD of it has given them the leverage they need.


This is one of my boring mantras. Every time a BR thread pops up you get the same people chundering on and on (and on) about how rubbish it is. I wonder why they bother?

Well, people do hate a success story. I suppose if you really hated it, it might confound and irk you that it's considered one of the best sci-fi movies of all time.
 
I liked the pops bit. That was good.

This is one of my boring mantras. Every time a BR thread pops up you get the same people chundering on and on (and on) about how rubbish it is. I wonder why they bother?

Same reason the praisers bother praising it.

No freaking lives.
 
UK indeed. The Blu-ray (5 disc) looks to be deleted (I don't have a Blu-ray player but I should have bought it anyway! Grrr) now but the DVD (5 disc) is selling for £5 at HMV.
 
I didn't think it was ever out here, seems a mighty strange thing to delete. That would explain how it got into a second hand shop though.

I got the 2 disc DVD because I wanted to wait for the 5 disc blu ray :lol:
 
Yes, it's great! Get the director's cut. I saw the original hack job in the theaters and walked out like :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: I want my money back. :p

Then I got the director's cut (I guess that's also what people refer to as the Final Cut) for Xmas. Wow! It's actually a great movie.

This is really quite silly, they aren't that different that one is walk out of the cinema bad and the other good. You must have been pretty much ignoring the substance of the film and using some banal criteria to judge it as a whole.

My "banal" criteria is that the original version left out a vital scene: the unicorn dream sequence which is necessary so that the audience can make sense of the unicorn origami left by Gaff.

Plus the "happy ending" in the original was extraordinarily stupid, particularly contrasted with the very cool Director's Cut ending: Deckard and Rachel leave together, and leave it up to our imagination what happens next. Are they happy? Does it end badly? We never know. That was the perfect way to end the movie.

And the voiceover - ugh! Talk about tacked on.

But according to you, any random nonsensical sequence of events can make a good story. :rolleyes: Why bother to have standards at all? Just paste together anything, it's a great movie!
 
My "banal" criteria is that the original version left out a vital scene: the unicorn dream sequence which is necessary so that the audience can make sense of the unicorn origami left by Gaff.

That's interesting. I never thought that was a vital scene. I found it quite jarring and intrusive--the first time I saw it, it threw me out of the movie. "WTF?!? I thought. "What's a unicorn from Legend doing in Blade Runner?"

(And before somebody starts this argument again: yes, I've listened to the commentary, and I'm aware that the unicorn was actually test footage, rather than footage shot specifically for Legend)

I always understood that the unicorn represented Rachel, in the same way that the earlier chicken represented Deckerd. Maybe it's because I studied The Glass Menagerie in Grade 11 English, which includes some pretty heavy-handed symbolism involving a glass unicorn.

In any case--I thought the dream sequence was a ham-fisted attempt by Scott to retcon the movie, and push his whole "Deckerd was a replicant" agenda. It's the one thing I really dislike about the post-theatrical versions.
 
I don't see how the final scene of Gaff's origami unicorn has any meaning without the unicorn dream sequence, though. I guess it could simply be taken to mean that Gaff was there and knew Rachael was there, a simple warning, but that doesn't seem to be as meaningful. Leaving the viewer with the question of whether Deckard is a replicant is a good, strong ending. The whole film is about the question of the humanity of replicants, whether Deckard or Batty is the more human one, whether Rachael is really a person, and so on. And it's about the development of Deckard's attitude from enmity to sympathy toward replicants. Symbolizing that shift in Deckard's identification by calling his very identity into question is a nice, surreal, symbolic, Phildickian touch. I don't see it as anything as simple as "He's a replicant/He's not a replicant." It's not about a definitive answer, it's about creating ambiguity and raising questions, making us think and wonder.
 
I feel that with the unicorn dream restored, the film tends to indicate that Deckard is a replicant, which seems to have been Scott's intention as opposed to that of the writers.
 
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I don't see how the final scene of Gaff's origami unicorn has any meaning without the unicorn dream sequence, though. I guess it could simply be taken to mean that Gaff was there and knew Rachael was there, a simple warning, but that doesn't seem to be as meaningful.

Well, what can I say? It was meaningful to me--especially when combined with Gaff's words: "It's too bad she won't live. But then again--who does?"

I took those two things to mean that Rachel was, in a way, a fabulous, mythical, imaginary creature, much like a unicorn. She was a child of science, rather than nature. She wouldn't live long, and she and Deckard had no real future together. Before long, she would be gone--like a ghost at cock-crow.

But that didn't matter. Rachel may have been a replicant, but she was a person, nonetheless. Her life had value, for as long as it lasted, and saving her from retirement was the right thing to do. The feelings that she and Deckard had for each other were real. And as Gaff pointed out, the future isn't promised to anyone.
 
^Okay, that's an interesting interpretation. It doesn't mean the version with the unicorn dream is invalid, though, just different.
 
^Okay, that's an interesting interpretation. It doesn't mean the version with the unicorn dream is invalid, though, just different.

I didn't mean to say that it was invalid.

Just that I didn't like it. Not as much, anyway. Among other things, I thought it actually took away from the ambiguity you mentioned.

But then, that's the beauty of owning the five-disc set. You don't have to settle for one version.
 
The theatrical version was excellent. It had a strong, if simple story (sometimes it seems as if only the simple stories are strong, at least in movies,) combined with an amazing visual style that was sensibly imitated thereafter. It was thematically coherent, about what it means to be human. The main drawbacks were the narration and the final scene.

The problem with the drawbacks were not Harrison Ford's flat affect. Aside from being something of a noir tradition, Deckard is a burnout. Without the narration, I've noticed Ford's Deckard seeming a little too innocent, to surprised by stuff to be quite as believable. The problem with the narration is how repetitive and uninformative they are. The stone cold killer Deckard not quite getting Batty's decision to let him live is particularly useless but hamfisted. The only time Ford's narration serves a genuinely useful purpose is in the final scene, when it underlines the commonality of Rachel's uncertain life span.

And that is important because it completely recasts the sappiness of the hero going off into the dawn final scene. It is always amazing to me how often people who claim to love ambiguity generally refuse to see genuine ambiguity. The voiceover says no one knew how long she had. Just because there's finally bright light doesn't mean she's going to live forever (which would be another kind of unhappy ending for Deckard, anyhow.) She could stop the next day. The narration puts back in the ambiguity of her fate.

Given that Gaff was shown folding and dropping his origami figures before, the unicorn means Gaff was there (the narration explaining this is another good example of how most of it is entirely unnecessary.)

The idea the unicorn dream is needed or desirable is nuts. Which means the notion that a bad movie was fixed up into something good is equally nuts. The notion that Deckard is a replicant doesn't undercut the question of what is human is dubious enough. If a replicant is an assassin whose life is spared by another replicant and said replicant falls in "love" with another replicant, it's all kind of trite, just members of the same club hanging together. A human falling in love with a replicant, a replicant sparing a human who had no mercy himself, these raise the thematic stakes.

But there is a value judgment implicit there. Which is, if the replicants are in fact human and the world of the Blade Runner is contaminated with a Big Lie, then the use and retirement of replicants is in fact slavery and murder. When Roy Batty kills his creator Tyrell, if he's human, he's enacting a response we should feel toward a creator who inflicts death upon us after too, too short a life. For people who accept God's decree, and (or) who feel some "people" are not quite the same as the rest of us, or are inevitably enemies, and should in fact be treated differently, the director's version is more comfortable.

But the notion that the director's interpretation is "valid," strikes me as abandoning all common sense. The plot of the movie is completely senseless if Deckard is a replicant. Unless you think any series of vaguely related scenes serves as a movie, this makes the director's version invalid.
 
I didn't think it was ever out here, seems a mighty strange thing to delete. That would explain how it got into a second hand shop though.

I got the 2 disc DVD because I wanted to wait for the 5 disc blu ray :lol:

The 5-disc set has been confirmed to be multi-region. You can get the set from DVDworldUSA.com for about £26 including express postage. They ship from the UK so there's no additional VAT or import duty to pay.

http://www.dvdworldusa.com/shopexd.asp?id=59520
 
There's a lot of "'unrelated' or 'vaguely related' scenes joined together" being bandied around here. This is one of the best composed films made of any genre of any time. The number of scenes is almost infeasibly economical whilst retaining a narrative that reveals itself without ever stalling. I don't know why people who hate this film are so bitter about it. If you don't like it you don't like it. Get over it, have a beer, get laid. Stop posting about it. You'll feel better. I promise.
 
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