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TOS -- mo money, mo money, mo money.

T'Girl

Vice Admiral
Admiral
Kirk:" Mister Scott, run a full computer check on Mister Flint and on this planet, Holberg Nine One Seven G".

Uhura: "The planet was purchased thirty years ago by a Mister Brack, a wealthy financier and recluse."
Was just re-watching Requiem For Methuselah and one line kind of jumped out at me. A "financier" is a person who engaged in the lending and management of money and makes a living participating in commercial financing activities.

There is an on going debate among Star Trek fans as to whether everything in the future is literally free or if value in some form is still changing hands. My personal position is that while physical money is rare, but that there continues to be a financial system of value exchange.

Now both sides of the debate have their justifications, and also their ready counter-points where dialog (seemingly) direct refutes their positions. Time for the other side to step up. How could there be a place for a money manager in a future where everything is "free."

:):):):):):)
 
The “moneyless” Federation society is an artifact of Trek TNG and later, and is based on one of Gene Roddenberry's more half-assed ideas. And this horse has not merely been beaten to death; it's a rotting, putrid, bloated corpse of a topic, festering and crawling with maggots.

(Please excuse the metaphor.)
 
The “moneyless” Federation society is an artifact of Trek TNG and later, and is based on one of Gene Roddenberry's more half-assed ideas. And this horse has not merely been beaten to death; it's a rotting, putrid, bloated corpse of a topic, festering and crawling with maggots. (Please excuse the metaphor.)

Kirk reminded Spock of how many credits were spent on his training to date in "The Apple." Sounds like money's still an issue in the 23rd century. Don't care much about the 24th...
 
Kirk reminded Spock of how many credits were spent on his training to date in “The Apple.” Sounds like money's still an issue in the 23rd century. Don't care much about the 24th...
Of course, “The Apple” is the episode in which Kirk “fires” Scotty, then “re-hires” him -- as if he were a civilian employee! I suppose Kirk was just kidding around, though.

And we see Cyrano Jones and the bar owner haggling over the price of tribbles in “The Trouble With Tribbles,” so I'd say a market economy is alive and well in the TOS era.
 
And the miners in "The Devil in the Dark" were hoping to strike it rich.

Then again, it's worth remembering that most of TOS took place on "the final frontier," where things were presumably rougher and less civilized than in the heart of the Federation. One could rationalize that Earth and Vulcan had more idealized economies, but that people were still struggling to make a living in the outer colonies . . . and beyond the boundaries of the Federation.
 
Also remember that the Ferengi are still out there using latinum for all their transactions. No, they weren't in TOS (because they hadn't been thought of yet) but they're there in continuity (as evidenced by ENT:Acquisition.) Who's to say "Mister Brack" bought the planet with Earth money? Maybe it was purchased with Ferengi GPL or some other alien currency.
 
Kirk reminded Spock of how many credits were spent on his training to date in “The Apple.” Sounds like money's still an issue in the 23rd century. Don't care much about the 24th...
Of course, “The Apple” is the episode in which Kirk “fires” Scotty, then “re-hires” him -- as if he were a civilian employee! I suppose Kirk was just kidding around, though.

And we see Cyrano Jones and the bar owner haggling over the price of tribbles in “The Trouble With Tribbles,” so I'd say a market economy is alive and well in the TOS era.

And the miners in "The Devil in the Dark" were hoping to strike it rich.
And not to forget the lonely, isolated, overworked lithium miners on Rigel 12 ("Mudds Women") who already were rich.

Wonder who exactly you buy a class-M planet from?
Go to the nightclub at the Orion Colony. Ask for Big Al -- burly dude wearing a plaid jacket and a fez. Be sure to read the fine print carefully before you sign.
 
The first reference to a moneyless economy that I remember was a throwaway line in THE VOYAGE HOME, in the pizza resturant scene:

Taylor: Don't tell me, they don't use money in the 23rd century?

Kirk: Well, we don't.
 
I think there's two ways to look at this: the way I'd like it to be and the way Roddenberry thought it should be.

The way I'd like it to be is: of course they don't use currency. What we think of as currency has changed dramatically in just the 20th century and will no doubt change again. I can imagine a future in which I rarely, if ever, carry physical currency. In fact, with my ATM card, having cash on my person is fairly rare.

So in ST4, when Kirk says they don't use money in the 23rd century, I'd like to think he's talking about currency.

However, what Roddenberry portrayed (with increasing strength as he got older) was a small-c communist utopia. There's really no other way to put it. Just look at what we saw:

Humans have literally evolved beyond the need for material wealth. This is stated repeatedly, and in the context of a civilization with food processors and later replicators, it actually makes sense. Most of what we do with our lives ultimately involves food, clothing, and shelter. If you could cheaply replicate basic needs, everything else is just gravy.

(Just imagine Treknology applied to building homes, for example. Want a house? Just replicate one. It couldn't possibly cost very much, thereby eliminating the single largest debt held by any family in America.)

A wise, omnipotent central government sees to the needs of every individual. We saw that over and over. The Federation is everything, makes most of the big calls, and rarely screws up.

We are led to infer that even in a galactic government, the activities of every individual are closely monitored. There is no Federation citizen about whom the various crews of the franchise cannot obtain instantaneous, detailed information. In fact, the same is often true of members of major non-Federation aliens.

Weapons ownership is tightly controlled. In almost every instance, only government operatives are allowed the right of self-defense. In 24th-century-era Star Trek, individuals’ weapons are removed automatically by transporter before they can even materialize.

Capitalism is portrayed as either evil or ridiculous, particularly as embodied by the Ferengi.

In short, it's all consistent with the kind of small-c communist world that Roddenberry fervently believed in.

I think the ultimate answer to this question is: like it or not, Roddenberry's Star Trek is a small-c communist utopia. The only time it's not been portrayed as such is when Roddenberry wasn't involved or when he was otherwise occupied and couldn't control it.

As an example: Roddenberry hated "The Trouble With Tribbles". But he was on vacation in and around the time it was produced, leaving the producing chores to Gene Coon. It was Coon who liked "Tribbles," not Roddenberry.

You'll also note that "Tribbles" is one of the few episodes that actually portrays capitalism -- albeit to comedic effect. I'm certain this would have been changed had Roddenberry not been in Hawaii at the time.

The third season (and "Requiem" is one of these) had no Roddenberry at the helm at all. Consequently, things like "wealthy financier" and buying planets could get past the communist filter that was Roddenberry.

Dakota Smith
 
We are led to infer that even in a galactic government, the activities of every individual are closely monitored. There is no Federation citizen about whom the various crews of the franchise cannot obtain instantaneous, detailed information. In fact, the same is often true of members of major non-Federation aliens.

...In contrast, it's virtually impossible to find out the whereabouts of a person without his active help. Even Starfleet officers can disappear simply by detaching their commbadges or other active tracking means.

Weapons ownership is tightly controlled.

To the contrary, everybody appears to be armed. We have never seen a character who would lack access to a weapon - even the conscientious objector Kevin Uxbridge had a pistol to his person. All the colonies we encounter out there seem to have bountiful supplies of hand weapons, and only Nimbus III, the Planet of Galactic Peace, appears to suffer from lack of quality in those weapons. On no occasion do our Starfleet heroes find anything wrong let alone illegal in the idea that this civilian riffraff is armed to the teeth - there is no such charge as "illegal possession of firearm".

In almost every instance, only government operatives are allowed the right of self-defense.

Which non-government entity was ever denied that right?

OTOH, government operatives are given wide latitude even when acting outside their professional field: UFP law seems to offer very little objection to, say, murder when it's done for the good cause. Duels to death are overlooked, mercy killings widely endorsed, and it's apparently a public service to kill one's own clone (except under apparent Bajoran law in "A Man Alone").

Capitalism is portrayed as either evil or ridiculous, particularly as embodied by the Ferengi.

Which alone might be sufficient reason for the UFP to pretend that it doesn't have money, even if it in practice has it, or something very similar to it. Money is something the enemy has, so the good guys must call their own stuff something else altogether.

Timo Saloniemi
 
. . . I think the ultimate answer to this question is: like it or not, Roddenberry's Star Trek is a small-c communist utopia. The only time it's not been portrayed as such is when Roddenberry wasn't involved or when he was otherwise occupied and couldn't control it.
Also remember that TNG was quite a different animal than TOS. When Roddenberry sold the original show to NBC, he had to compromise his utopian vision of the future to placate network executives and the censorship of the time. The network suits were even nervous about making the Enterprise a “United Earth” ship rather than a United States military vessel, and Roddenberry had to fight to keep the devilish-looking, pointy-eared alien Mr. Spock in the show. It was a creative decision at that time NEVER to depict Earth in Star Trek's future, both for budgetary reasons and to avoid potential controversy over socio-political issues (though such issues could be dealt with indirectly by setting them on other planets).

With the more relaxed standards of the 1980s and the greater freedom of producing a show for syndication rather than network broadcasting, Roddenberry's political, social, and economic philosophies were much more blatantly expressed in ST:TNG. For better or worse, that show is closer to G.R.'s vision than the original series was.
 
Humans have literally evolved beyond the need for material wealth.
But apparently not material possessions, Picard (big hypocrite) in his ready room has a first addition Works of Shakespeare, open under glass. His living quarters displays many little mementos.


A wise, omnipotent central government sees to the needs of every individual. We saw that over and over. The Federation is everything, makes most of the big calls, and rarely screws up.
Except when it come to the Federation's seemingly endless territorial expansion. And the million, maybe billion of lives that the expansion has cost.

Capitalism is portrayed as either evil or ridiculous, particularly as embodied by the Ferengi.
Also embodied by Ezri Dax's capitalistic family , and others too.

In 24th-century-era Star Trek, individuals’ weapons are removed automatically by transporter before they can even materialize.
In the episode Lonely Among Us, two different alien species brought a large number of weapons aboard when the enterprise beamed them up.
 
Sounds like the Feds don't use cash but everything is issued as credits (the Feds being the biggest credit card company in the galaxy ;) )

I won't say it ... I won't say it ... the hell I won't!

The Feds as being the biggest credit card company ... you mean just like real life?

:D

Dakota Smith
 
In ST:TVH...

Kirk: No, we don't use money in the 23rd century; we use a crediting system based on Federation credits. *Hands his Federation credit card to the waiter*

Robert
 
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