Destiny Borg question
- Thread starter Cicero
- Start date
If you recall Destiny's description of the Borg Collective, it made it clear that the Collective intelligence itself is separate from Sedín's corrupted intelligence. Sedín was to the Borg Collective as a subconscious is to a Human mind -- it's this thing there that drives them, but of which they aren't totally aware themselves. She was the Borg Collective's subconscious.
In other words -- because the Borg themselves literally did not know that Humans were their first drones! In fact, it seems probable that the Collective only began to develop out of the link between the earliest drones and the corrupted Sedín mind as more and more drones were assimilated from the native Kindir on the planet Arehaz, in the same way that a conscious mind only grows out of a subconsciousness as more and more connections are made between neurons.
I would presume that the Kindir had the unfortunate fate of being designated Species 0001.
^ Wouldn't that presume the death of the human drones before the collective consciousness gained awareness? Otherwise, the collective would be aware that humans were species 1, despite not knowing that they were humans. Even if the human drones died before consciousness was attained, I would think that the Borg would remain aware that there had been drones before the Kindir, and might recognized something of them, even unconsciously, when the first (other) humans were assimilated thousands of years later.
It's entirely possible that the Borg Collective experienced some form of infantile amnesia -- it just honestly doesn't remember how it originated. Maybe the Human drones died, or maybe their original assimilation was just too primitive to preserve their memories in any way. Perhaps the Humans are Species 001 and the Kindir are Species 002, but the Borg never knew what Species 001 called itself.
I always figured that the Collective was more primal in those early days. It is possible that Sedin, like the starved Calliar on the wrecked Columbia, had no idea of who she was. In the process of creating the first drones, their memories could have been lost.
The question I've had does the current Borg Queen look the same as the first queen created from Kiona Thayer?
Last edited:
Voyager established on-screen that much of the Borg's memory of their very early history was hazy and their recall of it only partial (ep. Dragon's Teeth). David Mack ran with that idea.
As the first drones weren't all decked out in the Borg's trademark bodysuits with optical implants and amputated arm attachment, one can see that the classic Borg of the 24th Century took a while to come about.
A couple thousand years of "Assimilate, Assimilate, Assimilate" plus a growing fixation on Particle 010 and you get the Collective we all know.
OK so it was a bit of a retcon, it was a good one. I'm still annoyed that the first Borg Queen was Canadian, in fact two of the first three drones were. I feel picked on.
As the first drones weren't all decked out in the Borg's trademark bodysuits with optical implants and amputated arm attachment, one can see that the classic Borg of the 24th Century took a while to come about.
A couple thousand years of "Assimilate, Assimilate, Assimilate" plus a growing fixation on Particle 010 and you get the Collective we all know.
OK so it was a bit of a retcon, it was a good one. I'm still annoyed that the first Borg Queen was Canadian, in fact two of the first three drones were. I feel picked on.
I see no reason to presume that she was the first Queen, or that she was anything other than an early drone.
OK so it was a bit of a retcon, it was a good one. I'm still annoyed that the first Borg Queen was Canadian, in fact two of the first three drones were. I feel picked on.
Goddamn Canucks, bringing the greatest scourge in the history of the Galaxy on us all!
Serves you right for all that socialist health care!
Eh? Guess what you're getting in 2014? 
Actually re-reading Destiny one of the few things that I wished had made it in there is if Dax had actually met Hernandez in the 22nd Century. It would have made a nice conversation between Hernandez and Ezri in the 24th Century in Lost Souls. Would have thrown Hernandez for a loop. Tobin Dax was already established to have worked on Columbia in Gods of Night so the plot was 90% there.
If it was ever put on paper it may have died at the hands of an editor. It may have presented too much tone disharmony in the packed third book.
Actually re-reading Destiny one of the few things that I wished had made it in there is if Dax had actually met Hernandez in the 22nd Century. It would have made a nice conversation between Hernandez and Ezri in the 24th Century in Lost Souls. Would have thrown Hernandez for a loop. Tobin Dax was already established to have worked on Columbia in Gods of Night so the plot was 90% there.
If it was ever put on paper it may have died at the hands of an editor. It may have presented too much tone disharmony in the packed third book.
And added to that, although the scene would have been fun, I've a feeling some people would be complaining about small universe syndrome....
Having the Borg originate from humans kinda feels like a cop out. Adds to my definition of the small universe syndrome Trek lit suffers from.
And what about that the Borg would have destroyed themselves had they stopped First Contact? Yet Picard & Co witnessed the altered timeline with 9 billion borg on Earth. How?
And what about that the Borg would have destroyed themselves had they stopped First Contact? Yet Picard & Co witnessed the altered timeline with 9 billion borg on Earth. How?
New Universe created by changing the past, just like the ST:2009 and the TNG show where Worf was slipping from universe to universe.
Except for the fact that Picard & Co were seeing a change in the timeline, and went back to fix it, so no new universe created there.
Two possibilities. One: the Borg that landed in the Delta Quadrant in the past had already left their timeline "before" it was negated, so they were isolated from the change. Two: those Borg were wiped out, but the Borg who went back in the timesphere to conquer Earth started a new Collective beginning with Earth, and by the 24th century they'd rebuilt much of their strength.
Well, Picard & Co. shouldn't have existed at all to witness the altered timeline with assimilated Earth in First Contact. The armwave was that the 'temporal wake' protected them from the paradox. It was acknowledged on screen that the Enterprise was witnessing a paradox.
Another temporal infraction is Borg sending a message to themselves in ENT's "Regeneration".
This is why timetravel is such a pain to deal with in fiction. Speaking of which, Chris, I look forward to DTI for that very reason. Hopefully you can establish some consistency.
Another temporal infraction is Borg sending a message to themselves in ENT's "Regeneration".
This is why timetravel is such a pain to deal with in fiction. Speaking of which, Chris, I look forward to DTI for that very reason. Hopefully you can establish some consistency.
No problem there. They said outright it would take two centuries for the Borg to get the message. The implication is that this was what prompted the Borg to take an interest in our region of space in the first place. That's a straightforward self-consistent causal loop -- no different from the loop that sent the Caeliar back in time in the first place.
That's my vote. The founding borg would've just been some of those weird temporal orphans that pop up, like Rasmussun's time machine, or future-Alexander, or future-O'brian. The same thing apparently happened in Trek '09's history. Zephram Cochrane met the crew of the Enterprise-E, and the borg, and then came the events of "Regeneration," and they still happened even though the events with Nero mean that, in all likelihood, the starship Enterprise of the alternate timeline's 2370s will be totally different than the one that visited first contact.
Similar threads
