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Covert Affairs (Piper Perabo, new USA series) - Discussion & Spoilers

Re: Covert Affairs (Piper Perabo, new USA series) - Discussion & Spoil

Why do people join the CIA in real life? I doubt every single agent and analyst in the agency is seeking to avenge some personal tragedy. People go into the CIA because it's a good place to exercise their skills (in Annie's case, her linguistic skills), or because they like the challenge, or because the pay and benefits are good.
I'd like to know why people do join the CIA in real life. They're working for the government, so the pay can't be all that hot compared with what they could get in the business world (there was even dialogue to that effect on the show). Many jobs allow you to exercise skills and give you challenges and don't require that you upend your personal life and get shot at.

I can think of only two valid motives for someone who is smart and capable to join the CIA rather than the private sector: patriotism or adrenaline-junky-ness. Either you want to put your life on the line for your country or you get off on being allowed to kill people legally. Or both.

I don't believe a powderpuff like Annie would last ten seconds in the CIA. Even if she can do the job, her motivation isn't strong enough to keep her from running away screaming when she's shot at every week. She's gotta be a star-spangled true believer and/or a bit of psycho. Basically...Jack Bauer. ;)

Not everyone has to have some romanticized, melodramatic reason for choosing their career.
For a character to deserve having a story written about him or her, they need to be out of the ordinary in some way. That could be their motivation for taking the job, or like Jack Bauer, it could be a manic intensity that makes him incredible at what he does. Not seeing a lot of incredible from Annie yet. Sure, it's just the pilot but I don't remember 24 taking time to "ramp up."

her bosses at the CIA are trying to draw out the mystery man that Annie had a fling with (the guy who saved her life at the climax), and they're using Annie as bait.

Which raises two questions: why should the audience respect Annie if she's merely bait? And why would she want to stay in this terrifying job where she is being used by cruel, deceptive people, unless she has a much more solid motivation?

And the commercials I've seen on TV credit him correctly as the producer of the Bourne movies, not the creator.
I know "producer" is a very vague job description, but to most people, it would mean someone with a great deal of creative input, and a guarantee that some elements that made Jason Bourne movies so great would be evident in Covert Affairs. The advertising is deliberately misleading.
 
Re: Covert Affairs (Piper Perabo, new USA series) - Discussion & Spoil

What I saw was a hot babe getting access to anything she wanted, based almost exclusively on her looks and associated ability to manipulate men.

I didn't really see that. Maybe in the hotel room when she went back to get the phone? But it felt like she was clumsy at the whole thing and the FBI dude suspected her anyway. I certainly don't think the show was about her just batting her eyes through everything.
 
Re: Covert Affairs (Piper Perabo, new USA series) - Discussion & Spoil

And what, exactly, was so unique about this assignment, that they had to pull this girl out of training? They needed a reasonably nice looking girl who could speak Russian? :rolleyes: Those have to be a dime a dozen in the CIA, without pulling someone out of basic training. Good grief, *I* could speak as much Russian as they showed in this episode! And she wasn't even fluent enough to know (or be capable of looking up!) an Estonian colloquialism, for cryin' out loud! She had to go talk to her old Russian professor for THAT? I could have looked that up, and I only had 2 years of Russian! :guffaw:

But whatever. That bit was decidedly lame.

Actually that was just a cover. As we were shown at the end of the episode, her bosses at the CIA are trying to draw out the mystery man that Annie had a fling with (the guy who saved her life at the climax), and they're using Annie as bait. That's why she was pulled out of basic training.

Well, maybe I did not understand that ending correctly, then, because I gathered that they became interested in him after she drew him out, not that they placed her in the situation to draw someone that they were already very interested in out.

So my bad there. Admittedly, my attention span by that point was at a low ebb, especially when it came to any storyline involving Peter Gallagher's character's wife, who I had already decided I didn't care for in the slightest.

But either way, it doesn't really make any sense, because why would this particular conveniently occurring set of circumstances draw him out any more than any other? If she hadn't been nearly killed, would he have been drawn out at all? There was no assurances of that happening, after all. And why was it necessary to do it now, before she had completed her training, thus putting her life at risk like they did? And how did these guys even know that their new recruit even KNEW this guy, since she knew him for only 3 weeks, 3 years ago on some vacation? Shoot, apparently, Annie herself didn't even know this guy, and she slept with him! :lol:

And Annie did recognize the Estonian colloquialism, at least enough to know it was an anomaly. But this is television; it isn't dramatically interesting to watch a character thinking to herself or looking in books. So you use conversations to dramatize characters' thought processes. In this case, she was seeking his confirmation of what she already suspected. Also, giving Annie an excuse to visit her old professor provided an opportunity to have a scene of him warning her about the perils of CIA work. And they may have plans for him as a recurring character.
Well, I know why they did it. I just think they could have accomplished the same thing in a less contrived manner that didn't make her look like someone who was incapable of looking up something as basic as that, when they are also trying to get us to believe that she is some sort of super-talented language whiz. :lol:


Is anyone else at all annoyed by Doug Liman's claim in the commercials for this show that he 'created' The Bourne Identity, when in fact he did no such thing? Last I checked, Robert Ludlum created Jason Bourne AND The Bourne Identity.

I found the video you're referring to on the USA site, and it sounds to me like "created" and "The Bourne Identity" were separate snippets of audio that the promo editors took out of Liman's comments and pieced together. So blame the ad agency for that, not Liman.

And the commercials I've seen on TV credit him correctly as the producer of the Bourne movies, not the creator.
Well, if you are correct about them piecing together the snippets (I didn't hear that, but I'll give this explanation the benefit of the doubt) the ad agency did him no favors, that's for sure. I thought he did a great job directing TBI, and from what I have read in my admittedly limited reading on the subject, he did add some stuff to it of his own that was very good. But Ludlum (who I admire and adore) needs to retain clear credit for creating the character of Jason Bourne and the original Bourne stories.

I guess that I am sensitive about it...because while Robert Ludlum is dead, he is most definitely not forgotten by fans (like myself) of the spy/thriller genre. In that genre, he is one of the all-time greats, and I really would have preferred the wording of that blurb to have been more clear about Liman's role...which was significant, but not as the 'creator'.
 
Re: Covert Affairs (Piper Perabo, new USA series) - Discussion & Spoil

Christopher - you should checkout Burn Notice. It's been slowly morphing into an extended Hyundai commercial over the last season.

In Burn Notice's defense, it used to be a huge General Motors commercial for 3 seasons until GM hit hard times.

Sam's gf's Cadillac was very prevalent in the past. Fionna used to drive a Saab, which was just as prevalent as her current blue genesis.

Can't blame the show for making money where it can.
 
Re: Covert Affairs (Piper Perabo, new USA series) - Discussion & Spoil

But either way, it doesn't really make any sense, because why would this particular conveniently occurring set of circumstances draw him out any more than any other? If she hadn't been nearly killed, would he have been drawn out at all? There was no assurances of that happening, after all. And why was it necessary to do it now, before she had completed her training, thus putting her life at risk like they did?

I would imagine we don't know the answers to those questions because they haven't been revealed yet, not because they don't exist. Really, if the whole idea is to build a season-long or series-long mystery arc, why would you expect them to explain everything in the first episode?


And how did these guys even know that their new recruit even KNEW this guy, since she knew him for only 3 weeks, 3 years ago on some vacation? Shoot, apparently, Annie herself didn't even know this guy, and she slept with him! :lol:

I guess you weren't paying much attention at the beginning either, because the very first scene of the episode was Annie taking a polygraph test in which she was asked very intimate and detailed questions about her relationship with the man -- and she answered them.

Indeed, for all we know, it may turn out that they recruited her in the first place because they knew of her connection to the guy and wanted to use her as bait. It would explain why the polygraph operator was asking such detailed questions about the relationship -- because it was something that was of specific import to them.


Well, I know why they did it. I just think they could have accomplished the same thing in a less contrived manner that didn't make her look like someone who was incapable of looking up something as basic as that, when they are also trying to get us to believe that she is some sort of super-talented language whiz. :lol:

Why "incapable?" If someone sees an excuse to go visit an old professor they liked, I don't see that as evidence that they're incapable of learning things on their own. I see it as a very natural, human process of maintaining a past relationship. I've done the same thing many times myself -- asking a former professor when I wanted information on something rather than looking it up in a book. Not because I was incapable of finding the answer myself, but because I wanted to see the professor again. (In fact, I somewhat regret that in more recent years I've become so accustomed to using the Internet to find things out and have lost touch with old professors as a result.)
 
Re: Covert Affairs (Piper Perabo, new USA series) - Discussion & Spoil

Why do people join the CIA in real life? I doubt every single agent and analyst in the agency is seeking to avenge some personal tragedy. People go into the CIA because it's a good place to exercise their skills (in Annie's case, her linguistic skills), or because they like the challenge, or because the pay and benefits are good.
I'd like to know why people do join the CIA in real life. They're working for the government, so the pay can't be all that hot compared with what they could get in the business world (there was even dialogue to that effect on the show). Many jobs allow you to exercise skills and give you challenges and don't require that you upend your personal life and get shot at.

I can think of only two valid motives for someone who is smart and capable to join the CIA rather than the private sector: patriotism or adrenaline-junky-ness. Either you want to put your life on the line for your country or you get off on being allowed to kill people legally. Or both.

I don't believe a powderpuff like Annie would last ten seconds in the CIA. Even if she can do the job, her motivation isn't strong enough to keep her from running away screaming when she's shot at every week. She's gotta be a star-spangled true believer and/or a bit of psycho. Basically...Jack Bauer. ;)

Not everyone has to have some romanticized, melodramatic reason for choosing their career.
For a character to deserve having a story written about him or her, they need to be out of the ordinary in some way. That could be their motivation for taking the job, or like Jack Bauer, it could be a manic intensity that makes him incredible at what he does. Not seeing a lot of incredible from Annie yet. Sure, it's just the pilot but I don't remember 24 taking time to "ramp up."

The Wire thread has me re-watching the series and the thing to notice that among a lot of working guys who passed Baltimore's civil service exam a few were "real police" In Annie's world her nation has been at war for her entire adult life, why can't she just be like any other police/miltary recruit or ROTC volunteer? She just spent time picking up language skills and picked the CIA instead of some other letter agency.
 
Re: Covert Affairs (Piper Perabo, new USA series) - Discussion & Spoil

But either way, it doesn't really make any sense, because why would this particular conveniently occurring set of circumstances draw him out any more than any other? If she hadn't been nearly killed, would he have been drawn out at all? There was no assurances of that happening, after all. And why was it necessary to do it now, before she had completed her training, thus putting her life at risk like they did?

I would imagine we don't know the answers to those questions because they haven't been revealed yet, not because they don't exist. Really, if the whole idea is to build a season-long or series-long mystery arc, why would you expect them to explain everything in the first episode?


And how did these guys even know that their new recruit even KNEW this guy, since she knew him for only 3 weeks, 3 years ago on some vacation? Shoot, apparently, Annie herself didn't even know this guy, and she slept with him! :lol:
I guess you weren't paying much attention at the beginning either, because the very first scene of the episode was Annie taking a polygraph test in which she was asked very intimate and detailed questions about her relationship with the man -- and she answered them.

Indeed, for all we know, it may turn out that they recruited her in the first place because they knew of her connection to the guy and wanted to use her as bait. It would explain why the polygraph operator was asking such detailed questions about the relationship -- because it was something that was of specific import to them.


Well, I know why they did it. I just think they could have accomplished the same thing in a less contrived manner that didn't make her look like someone who was incapable of looking up something as basic as that, when they are also trying to get us to believe that she is some sort of super-talented language whiz. :lol:
Why "incapable?" If someone sees an excuse to go visit an old professor they liked, I don't see that as evidence that they're incapable of learning things on their own. I see it as a very natural, human process of maintaining a past relationship. I've done the same thing many times myself -- asking a former professor when I wanted information on something rather than looking it up in a book. Not because I was incapable of finding the answer myself, but because I wanted to see the professor again. (In fact, I somewhat regret that in more recent years I've become so accustomed to using the Internet to find things out and have lost touch with old professors as a result.)

1. Well, in order for me to accept something like the idea that they knew about her and this person of interest and intentionally used her to draw him out by putting her in a situation which would nearly get her killed (that being the motivation for him to reveal himself), I guess that I have to have at least a little bit more than "she admitted to having a vaguely discussed 3 week relationship with an unnamed stranger 3 years ago on some remote island, and that relationship ended badly - so....that MUST be the guy we care about and the best way to draw him out is to put her in mortal danger!", they have to give me a bit more than what they did. They just didn't give me enough for me to buy it. Not yet, anyway. The mortal danger was the thing that drew him out...but they had no way of predicting he would nearly kill her.

2. If we were talking about 'most people' (myself included) engaged in most careers, I'd agree with you about wanting to have an excuse to go interface with an old professor, just to keep in touch.

But we are not talking about 'most people' in 'most careers'. We are talking about a spy who is supposedly on a very dangerous secret mission. And the first rule anyone learns about keeping a secret is 'the best way to keep a secret' is to not tell anyone...or even give them a hint that there IS a secret'. And so I'm not buyin' the "I went to ask him about this, just to have an excuse to see him" defense. Unless, of course, she is gonna be the lamest spy ever. :lol: Especially since he clearly knew that she had at least been in job negotiations with the CIA at some point. If he know that, well....that is even more reason to stay the hell away from him when it came to anything related to an actual case. Partly so he wouldn't figure out who she was working for despite his warnings....and partly to keep him safe from the people who people who were shooting at her!

And if she wanted to keep in touch, all she had to do was just make up some other reason to go see him. But on an issue related to a real case? No way. Not when you can look it up very easily. Assuming you ARE, indeed, a language whiz as billed.

Sorry...but for me, it just has to 'fit' better than it is doing. I don't hate the show. As I said in my initial post, it's okay. But, although it's obviously too early to tell for certain, I have a feeling that I'm gonna be liking Burn Notice a lot more. Maybe partly because they don't take themselves as seriously on that show...so we (or at least *I*) don't hold them to as high of a standard when it comes to 'everything needing to fit'.

This show wants to run with the Big Boyz of The Bourne Identity - at least that is what Liman leads us to believe in the adverts. But that is a pretty high standard to take on - especially if you are a USA summer TV show. I think the Burn Notice folks knew that, decided they couldn't take themselves that seriously on the budget allocated, and took another path... That path works for them and as a result, the show is quite popular.

But this show's Main Man drew a comparison that will be very difficult to live up to. However, he was the one who led us there....because I know that I wouldn't have necessarily gone to the standards of Bourne if he hadn't drawn the comparison in the adverts. ;)

I don't know. We'll see. I'll keep watching if they can get Peter Gallagher out of that stupid relationship with his character's wife. If two people have that little trust in each other, they have no business being married. And if they stay married anyway, they have no one to blame for their misery but themselves.
 
Re: Covert Affairs (Piper Perabo, new USA series) - Discussion & Spoil

I can think of only two valid motives for someone who is smart and capable to join the CIA rather than the private sector: patriotism or adrenaline-junky-ness. Either you want to put your life on the line for your country or you get off on being allowed to kill people legally. Or both.

I profoundly doubt there's anywhere near as much killing or "putting your life on the line" in real-life CIA work as there is in fiction. Real-life espionage is mostly about sifting through information, surveillance, bribery, blackmail, using deceit to compromise people, things like that. It's about keeping a low profile, and getting into weekly gunfights isn't the way to do that.


I don't believe a powderpuff like Annie would last ten seconds in the CIA. Even if she can do the job, her motivation isn't strong enough to keep her from running away screaming when she's shot at every week.

I don't know where you're getting "powderpuff." The character I saw was extremely smart, capable, adaptable, and quick on her feet. She showed no shortage of courage or ability. Yes, she showed some anxiety and doubt a couple of times, which any sane human being would be expected to do in such trying circumstances, but it didn't impede her performance. So I have no clue why you're judging her in those terms.


For a character to deserve having a story written about him or her, they need to be out of the ordinary in some way.

Not true. There's a long, long tradition in fiction of telling stories about the "everyman" being thrust into an exceptional situation.


That could be their motivation for taking the job, or like Jack Bauer, it could be a manic intensity that makes him incredible at what he does. Not seeing a lot of incredible from Annie yet. Sure, it's just the pilot but I don't remember 24 taking time to "ramp up."

God, the last thing I want to see is anything like 24. Not every show has to be dark and intense and torturiffic. What's wrong with a light adventure romp?


Which raises two questions: why should the audience respect Annie if she's merely bait?

Like I said, many stories are about ordinary people who start out as victims. The story is in how they rise above that role and turn the tables.

And why would she want to stay in this terrifying job where she is being used by cruel, deceptive people, unless she has a much more solid motivation?

Again, I expect that to be a question that the series will explore as it progresses. That's called character development.


I know "producer" is a very vague job description, but to most people, it would mean someone with a great deal of creative input, and a guarantee that some elements that made Jason Bourne movies so great would be evident in Covert Affairs. The advertising is deliberately misleading.

On the contrary, "producer" is a very specific job description. It is Doug Liman's legal, official, contractually determined title on the Bourne movies. It is therefore entirely honest, clear, and accurate to credit him in that way. If someone out there is so unfamiliar with the workings of the industry that they would confuse "producer" with "creator," that's hardly the fault of the people who made the ad.

Now, the ad that cut together Liman's spoken words and artificially juxtaposed "created" with "The Bourne Identity" was deliberately misleading, but my point was that Liman couldn't be blamed for that. And the other ads crediting him as producer are entirely accurate.


1. Well, in order for me to accept something like the idea that they knew about her and this person of interest and intentionally used her to draw him out by putting her in a situation which would nearly get her killed (that being the motivation for him to reveal himself), I guess that I have to have at least a little bit more than "she admitted to having a vaguely discussed 3 week relationship with an unnamed stranger 3 years ago on some remote island, and that relationship ended badly - so....that MUST be the guy we care about and the best way to draw him out is to put her in mortal danger!", they have to give me a bit more than what they did.

Why are you assuming they didn't know the man's name? I mean, come on, this is the CIA. Surely they ran an extensive background check on Annie as soon as she signed up. It makes zero sense to assume that a single polygraph test was their only source of information about her past. On the contary, as I said, the fact that she was questioned so extensively about that relationship is a pretty blatant clue that the CIA already knew about it and had reason to grill her on it. You just need to read between the lines.


The mortal danger was the thing that drew him out...but they had no way of predicting he would nearly kill her.

Well, obviously they didn't know how any single specific event would go, but I assume they planned to keep her around as long as it took to draw him out. They just got lucky that it happened so soon.


But we are not talking about 'most people' in 'most careers'. We are talking about a spy who is supposedly on a very dangerous secret mission. And the first rule anyone learns about keeping a secret is 'the best way to keep a secret' is to not tell anyone...or even give them a hint that there IS a secret'. And so I'm not buyin' the "I went to ask him about this, just to have an excuse to see him" defense. Unless, of course, she is gonna be the lamest spy ever. :lol: Especially since he clearly knew that she had at least been in job negotiations with the CIA at some point. If he know that, well....that is even more reason to stay the hell away from him when it came to anything related to an actual case. Partly so he wouldn't figure out who she was working for despite his warnings....and partly to keep him safe from the people who people who were shooting at her!

Well, she was told that it was a bad idea to go see him. Why is it so objectionable that a character who's explicitly defined as a novice is making mistakes? Hell, a few days ago someone was complaining that they'd hate it if she were portrayed as too perfect and unbeatable.

And I stand by what I said before. This is fiction, and fiction follows dramatic rules that often require contrived situations. One factor is the need to convey information through spoken dialogue since the audience can't read a single character's internal thoughts. Another factor is the need to set up any characters who may have a role to play in the series as a whole. My suspicion is that the professor was introduced here because he's going to be a recurring player in the series.
 
Re: Covert Affairs (Piper Perabo, new USA series) - Discussion & Spoil

PKTrekGirl wrote:
1. Well, in order for me to accept something like the idea that they knew about her and this person of interest and intentionally used her to draw him out by putting her in a situation which would nearly get her killed (that being the motivation for him to reveal himself), I guess that I have to have at least a little bit more than "she admitted to having a vaguely discussed 3 week relationship with an unnamed stranger 3 years ago on some remote island, and that relationship ended badly - so....that MUST be the guy we care about and the best way to draw him out is to put her in mortal danger!", they have to give me a bit more than what they did.

Why are you assuming they didn't know the man's name? I mean, come on, this is the CIA. Surely they ran an extensive background check on Annie as soon as she signed up. It makes zero sense to assume that a single polygraph test was their only source of information about her past. On the contary, as I said, the fact that she was questioned so extensively about that relationship is a pretty blatant clue that the CIA already knew about it and had reason to grill her on it. You just need to read between the lines.

It's not even that hard to imagine how the CIA knew about the relationship, since they obviously have a history with the man in question. Their information doesn't all have to come from Annie.
 
Re: Covert Affairs (Piper Perabo, new USA series) - Discussion & Spoil

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New CIA agent Annie Walker is still forced to work on low-key cases until she is tipped off that a IRA cell operates in America.
 
Re: Covert Affairs (Piper Perabo, new USA series) - Discussion & Spoil

Well, upon knowing the pilot got picked up to series, for episode two we get a whole new set for the workplace and Conrad (the smug guy who was first to meet Annie on her first day) is promptly replaced by Mohinder.

And Annie makes a really stupid obvious mistake that no one here would've. But at least she's not as implausibly green as that NCIS: Los Angeles rookie that was jettisoned halfway through that show's first season.
 
Re: Covert Affairs (Piper Perabo, new USA series) - Discussion & Spoil

^Yea, they made it a big part of the episode about the move but I honestly could not really tell the difference between the new and old set.

I have one problem with this show so far and it's the same problem I had with the old "7 Days" time travel show. In that show Frank was a glorified messenger. If you think about it, all he had to do was go back in time and inform the team of whatever the issue of the week was. There was no really good reason story wise that he was involved beyond this. It's not like he had a special ability that was needed to actually solve the issue each week. They did the same thing in tonight's episode. Why wasn't Annie sent back to continue interviewing walk-ins after relaying the woman and son's information? Why is the junior agent being sent out continuously when the situation doesn't even require her skills?
 
Re: Covert Affairs (Piper Perabo, new USA series) - Discussion & Spoil

And Annie makes a really stupid obvious mistake that no one here would've.

Which is...?


By the way, I noticed the show debuted a main-title sequence this week (those seem to be making a resurgence lately). The concept and design are interesting, with kind of a Saul Bass quality, but the compositing of the live actors into the cartoon backgrounds is very awkward and stiff.
 
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Re: Covert Affairs (Piper Perabo, new USA series) - Discussion & Spoil

Well. I just watch the pilot. Actually a part of the pilot.

Craptastic.

I couldn't finish it.

Piper is annoying. Great, a bumbling CIA operative whose default expression is worried.

AND, and this is where I turned it off: the CIA having a Domestic Operation? Yes, I know sometimes TV isn't realistic, but isn't the CIA forbidden to operate in the US? Maybe I'M making that up, but doesn't the FBI do domestic? I don't know.

It just made me sort of mad.

And it's rife with cliche.

So. After about 15 minutes I stopped and won't be back again. It's just plain awful.
 
Re: Covert Affairs (Piper Perabo, new USA series) - Discussion & Spoil

Well. I just watch the pilot. Actually a part of the pilot.

Craptastic.

I couldn't finish it.

Piper is annoying. Great, a bumbling CIA operative whose default expression is worried.

AND, and this is where I turned it off: the CIA having a Domestic Operation? Yes, I know sometimes TV isn't realistic, but isn't the CIA forbidden to operate in the US? Maybe I'M making that up, but doesn't the FBI do domestic? I don't know.

It just made me sort of mad.

And it's rife with cliche.

So. After about 15 minutes I stopped and won't be back again. It's just plain awful.

You're right the CIA doesn't do the mission the FBI does. I don't know why they just base her in Toronto instead of pretend Toronto is Washington
 
Re: Covert Affairs (Piper Perabo, new USA series) - Discussion & Spoil


You're right the CIA doesn't do the mission the FBI does. I don't know why they just base her in Toronto instead of pretend Toronto is Washington[/QUOTE]


Or just make up an organization.

It makes them (the creators) look stupid.

And I just couldn't believe Piper as an agent...for anything.

Except Real Estate.

I could believe her as a Real Estate Agent.
 
Re: Covert Affairs (Piper Perabo, new USA series) - Discussion & Spoil

AND, and this is where I turned it off: the CIA having a Domestic Operation? Yes, I know sometimes TV isn't realistic, but isn't the CIA forbidden to operate in the US? Maybe I'M making that up, but doesn't the FBI do domestic? I don't know.
Crap, I can't believe I didn't think of that! Yes, it's a huge violation of CIA rules for them to operate domestically and for very good reason - with no oversight like the very public FBI undergoes, what's to stop them from turning into an American gestapo?

But I like that idea. How about a super-duper secret branch of the CIA that violates their own rules and does have a domestic operation? I can absolutely believe that such a thing exists. It would lend a much sharper edge to this show if we knew all of Our Heroes were undermining the foundation of American democracy because they are self-justified fanatics who think they are above the rules. It's like Jack Bauer Torture Hour x 1000.

However, it goes without saying that an incompetent bumbler wouldn't be tolerated in their ranks. One slip-up, and the shit hits a fan the size of New Jersey.
 
Re: Covert Affairs (Piper Perabo, new USA series) - Discussion & Spoil

It makes them (the creators) look stupid.

Since when is it stupid for a work of fiction to fictionalize something? Real crime scene investigators don't interview suspects or carry guns, but the CSI characters do because it's more dramatically effective that way. Not because the creators are stupid, but because they made a deliberate creative choice to diverge from reality for the sake of telling a story. It's no different from an SF show diverging from reality by pretending that faster-than-light travel is practical.

In this case, the show did establish in the pilot that the domestic operation is a secret division of the CIA. In this show's universe, the CIA only pretends not to operate in the US. Which is a fictional conceit I don't have trouble buying, since I've seen plenty of shows revolving around fictional organizations or fictionalized representations of real ones. Like all the shows that portray Homeland Security as an FBI-like agency with its own agents and badges and so forth, rather than simply a Cabinet-level department that coordinates the activities of the agencies that actually do the field work.
 
Re: Covert Affairs (Piper Perabo, new USA series) - Discussion & Spoil

It makes them (the creators) look stupid.

Since when is it stupid for a work of fiction to fictionalize something? Real crime scene investigators don't interview suspects or carry guns, but the CSI characters do because it's more dramatically effective that way. Not because the creators are stupid, but because they made a deliberate creative choice to diverge from reality for the sake of telling a story. It's no different from an SF show diverging from reality by pretending that faster-than-light travel is practical.

In this case, the show did establish in the pilot that the domestic operation is a secret division of the CIA. In this show's universe, the CIA only pretends not to operate in the US. Which is a fictional conceit I don't have trouble buying, since I've seen plenty of shows revolving around fictional organizations or fictionalized representations of real ones. Like all the shows that portray Homeland Security as an FBI-like agency with its own agents and badges and so forth, rather than simply a Cabinet-level department that coordinates the activities of the agencies that actually do the field work.


Emphasis mine.

It's one I do. And as I said in my post, I know show's fictionalize things. I'm not stupid.

But SOMETIMES they stretch the truth SO far it takes me out of the reality of the show.

The CIA thing was just the nail in the coffin for me ANYway. I couldn't believe HER as an agent for the CIA, I couldn't take seriously a CIA that would be interested in HER as an agent.

I know the tone is light, I get they are trying to go for something different, but it was SO lacking in... wait for it... verisimilitude.

Hell, you're right, maybe I shouldn't have called them stupid, BUT, it makes the SHOW look stupid and silly. CSI, for all of it's gun toting crime scene technicians, doesn't come off as silly.

I'm all for different tones--I really like Burn Notice because I BELIEVE the world, I BELIEVE the characters.

Covert Affairs felt like an Owen Wilson comedy.
 
Re: Covert Affairs (Piper Perabo, new USA series) - Discussion & Spoil

I profoundly doubt there's anywhere near as much killing or "putting your life on the line" in real-life CIA work as there is in fiction. Real-life espionage is mostly about sifting through information, surveillance, bribery, blackmail, using deceit to compromise people, things like that. It's about keeping a low profile, and getting into weekly gunfights isn't the way to do that.
That's never going to be the subject of a TV series (unless it's a workplace comedy) so that's irrelevant. The folks the TV shows will be made about are the ones getting into the weekly gunfights. So what motivates someone to get into a weekly gunfight? Give me a plausible answer to that, and I might just watch the show. But a stupid answer? Forget it.
What's wrong with a light adventure romp?
I got Chuck for that. My appetite for TV fluff is pretty limited. But a well-made, hard-hitting drama that takes itself seriously is always welcome, not least because there are so few of them to choose from.

My objection to this fluffy show depicting the CIA undermining American democracy by violating their charter and operating domestically doesn't stem so much from moral or aesthetic outrage that they would take such a thing lightly (or not even realize that it's an issue) but that it gives me an inkling of a much better show that could be on TV in place of this brainless twaddle.
 
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