The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

[archeryguy1701]

I won't deny that there are some issues with the movie, but you're just pissing into the wind with the whole, "It's a bad movie, and you're wrong for believing otherwise!" bit. Good and bad are subjective. You didn't like it, so it makes it a bad movie to you. I absolutely enjoyed the movie, and that makes it a good movie to me. You can try to be objective as you want when pointing out what you feel are issues, but you're not going to convince anyone that it's a bad movie just because you say they are wrong.

 

[3D Master]

I won't deny that there are some issues with the movie, but you're just pissing into the wind with the whole, "It's a bad movie, and you're wrong for believing otherwise!" bit. Good and bad are subjective. You didn't like it, so it makes it a bad movie to you. I absolutely enjoyed the movie, and that makes it a good movie to me. You can try to be objective as you want when pointing out what you feel are issues, but you're not going to convince anyone that it's a bad movie just because you say they are wrong.

Except of course, I've just been busy explaining and showing you can like a movie and still objectively know it isn't good, and even gave an example of a movie I like that isn't good, and happily admit so.

If Star Trek 09 were good, but I didn't like it, I would say so. This is simply isn't the case. Star Trek 09 is bad, my god is it bad. And if you're honest and objective, leave your feelings out of it, and examine the movie, you should be able to see it as well, and admit it.

For example, I LOVE Mortal Kombat. I love that movie, I consider it one of, if not the most enjoyable movies to I've ever watched. I can also tell you, objectively and honestly speaking, it's not a good movie.

I trust we can agree that the Johnny Cage/Scorpion fight, set to the music of Fear Factory, is the best in the film?

Oh, indeed. Lui Kang vs Reptile is a close second though.

I agree with you. Mortal Kombat is bad, but fun. ST09 is also bad and fun.

I don't consider ST09 fun though. The sheer ineptness of this movie and the mockery it makes of something I've loved nearly my entire life, makes it impossible to me to find it fun. Whenever I'm forced to watch, and believe me it is forced, I have no interest in watching ST09, all it does is draw my mind to all the plotholes, all the idiocies, all the bad writing, the bad sets, the lack of any coherent theme (despite claims of the writers there is one, showing they were just lying through their teeth for propaganda's sake), the lack of any character development, especially in Kirk, and on, and on. Like I said; every time I'm forced to sit through this steaming pile, I uncover even more bad stuff.

 

[Gepard]

Jesus, you people are still arguing about this?

 

[Ovation]

Wow. Just…wow. I thought I'd find some comments by people who'd only recently seen the movie, not chapter 4,289 in the ongoing saga of "it sux and if only people were honest AND objective, they'd see how much it sux".

Guess I'll just back away quietly...

 

[Cyke101]

Jesus, you people are still arguing about this?

Yeesh. Raising my blood pressure and risking a stroke day after day by arguing the same song and dance is not my ideal way of spending an entire year of my life.

I mean, anyone is free to dislike something, but to vehemently hate and go out of your way to point out that anger just seems so counter-productive. If I hate something with a passion, I make sure I stay the hell away from that thing! To hell with picking fights and satisfying my ego, the sun is out!

 

[Amaris]

Wow. Just…wow. I thought I'd find some comments by people who'd only recently seen the movie, not chapter 4,289 in the ongoing saga of "it sux and if only people were honest AND objective, they'd see how much it sux".

Guess I'll just back away quietly...

It would be for the best. I imagine, if left unchecked, this would merely become just one more eternal debate. It is unwise to debate with any cause that shall never be satisfied with any answer other than an admittance of it's own victory, in the righteousness of it's personal crusade. Therefore, I shall move on from that as well. It is best to avoid it entirely, for only a fool has a debate with a pre-recorded message.

 

[Salinga]

I voted average. I just saw the movie on DVD and I have to say it felt more like an action movie with the Star Trek brand on it than a Star Trek movie with an action brand. Very entertaining, but a movie you forget the moment it's over. It's just good popcorn movie stuff. And I don't watch Trek mainly for that.

So I do understand why this movie was more successfull (especially with the younger audiences), because it played more to the rules of successfull action. But as Trek is leaves me cold. I do not care much for the "new" characters, they feel more comical than mature to me; I sometimes thought, I watch a movie version of an action comic (manga style). Well, "Matrix" was the same in that category, but it had a strong philosophical core, that I cannot see here.

So, the 11th Trek won't find its way into my DVD collection. It stays a rental DVD experience.

 

[Aragorn]

Jesus, you people are still arguing about this?

There were/are people on this board who bitched and moaned about how much Enterprise and the Battlestar Galactica sucked yet watched EVERY SINGLE EPISODE from start to finish to post daily about how right they were. This is just more of the same.

 

[Cyke101]

Jesus, you people are still arguing about this?

There were/are people on this board who bitched and moaned about how much Enterprise and the Battlestar Galactica sucked yet watched EVERY SINGLE EPISODE from start to finish to post daily about how right they were. This is just more of the same.

On the other hand, there were/are people on this board who bitched and moaned about Voyager and Doctor Who sucked yet watched EVERY SINGLE EPISODE from start to finish and ended up changing their minds to more positive reviews later on.

 

[Aragorn]

I don't see how later episodes could possibly make a Voyager hater change his mind about the show, especially that final episode.

Reminds me of someone I saw at a Bruce Campbell book signing who said that he watched Maniac Cop and Maniac Cop 2 many times and didn't like them, then asked Campbell if there was going to be a Maniac Cop 4.

 

[BurntSynapse]

Star Trek (2009) is as believable as any other incarnation of Star Trek.

I would be happy to learn of any evidence that on a per-dollar basis, any Trek property had an equivalent number of inconsistencies per minute. Honestly.

There doesn't need to be a comparison.

Life itself is not, technically speaking, "needed." Neither is anything we would consider most virtuous or helpful to a flourishing of our lives. The TrekBBS, for example isn't "needed", yet this is no argument against its existing...so I try to avoid that commonly used mental/verbal concept because I think it encourages lazy thinking on my part, and makes voicing poorly formed objections to others seem acceptable.

You're trying to compare two fantastic (not in reference to an indicator of quality) stories that contain elements of science and reason which give them a level of believability, but suffice to say, one is not more believable than the other in that regard.

I'm afraid merely asserting this does not suffice for the attentive mind. Claiming anything with elements of both fantasy and believability is as believable as any other thing is unjustified.

It's like saying "I know Christianity is wrong because Judaism is right".

There must be some difference, since I cannot imagine a circumstance in which I would support such a claim, nor I think, can I be fairly criticized for not providing concrete examples in my blog as well as here. I believe that equating the presentation of copious evidence with trivial fallacy as you do here is an error you should retract in the interest of fair discussion.

You have no verifiable data to support it beyond mere supposition.

When a character in a film claims X, and the visuals show Y, this would appear to be evidence of internal inconsistency most would consider "verifiable data". If you disagree, please explain.

You can point out plot holes, and people can point out plot holes in the movies you enjoy.

It is whether we have the courage to recognize such failings in ourselves and what we love most (fave films, for example) that is the hallmark of maturity, reason, and wisdom, IMO.

 

[Cyke101]

I don't see how later episodes could possibly make a Voyager hater change his mind about the show, especially that final episode.

It's hindsight vs. modern viewings. Whether positively or negatively, people's opinions about anything can change, even after a year.

I still have an overall negative opinion of Voyager, but some of the review threads here gave initial opinions from 10 years ago, and compared them to recent reviews, and those opinions often changed, up and down.

 

[oneohone]

I liked the Star Trek reboot. It was a skillfully crafted movie and it got me dates. How? Women LIKE STAR TREK NOW. Before, I would have to hide that I was a Trekkie. Now I can proudly say I am one.

 

[BurntSynapse]

I liked the Star Trek reboot. It was a skillfully crafted movie and it got me dates. How? Women LIKE STAR TREK NOW. Before, I would have to hide that I was a Trekkie. Now I can proudly say I am one.

So women will now "give" you the chance to spend money on entertaining them? <sigh>

I suppose that could be a step up, but I would recommend that if you put your interest in them and focus on what they like, you'll do much better.

Every woman wants and needs the same thing from any man. If you want to successfully seduce women, your job is to successfully provide it.

 

[Peach Wookiee]

I voted Excellent. I finally saw the movie last night and it just plain blew me away. The visuals were great and I liked seeing the characters in an alternate reality. By the way, my brother and sister-in-law, who still don't get my Trek fixation, loved the movie too.

 

[BurntSynapse]

The visuals were great and I liked seeing the characters in an alternate reality.

I like the idea of an alternate reality and/or reboot also, but the implementation was depraved in its pandering to violence, sexism and racism. The shamefully incoherent writing didn't help me enjoy the film either.

I do agree 100% that the visuals were absolutely top notch!

My full review of the film is at Star Trek by the Minute.

 

[Amaris]

One of the things I love about the movie is that it restores the idea that starships are truly massive, powerful vessels, and commanding one is a grave undertaking with great responsibility. As much as I enjoyed the previous Trek movies, only a handful of them came close to this idea. In STXI, the Kelvin, the Enterprise, huge, state of the art, complex starships that felt real, that had mass and weight, they conveyed a sense of awe and technical wonder, that these truly were the best ships of the line. I can almost believe that they really did (or will) exist.

 

[BurntSynapse]

...the idea that starships are truly massive, powerful vessels

Notwithstanding various technical flaws on the science, I would agree that the sound, cinematography, and CGI did give this "feel" admirably and in a well coordinated way!

, and commanding one is a grave undertaking with great responsibility.

I can't agree that such a message was conveyed by the film I saw. I base my impression on Bridge Officer behavior that (with only minor exceptions) ranged from complete ignorance, through various degrees of incompetence, up to and including genocidal aggression and mass murder. In addition, this behavior was set against dialog that contradicted normal logic, reasonable military rules, actions we see onscreen, and even other dialog.

As much as I enjoyed the previous Trek movies, only a handful of them came close to this idea.

Without any recent viewings, I think only 4 really lacks a good "massive" ship scene, from what I remember...Even the stupidly overdone 1701D saucer-section crash scene gave a memorable feel of weight and size.

In STXI, the Kelvin, the Enterprise, huge, state of the art, complex starships that felt real,

Based on these ships' reactions, I can't really agree. The all-but helpless Kelvin was able to out-perform entire fleets of Klingon battlecruisers and Starfleet ships with only one man as the Bridge was exploding around him. Combine a mall-sized engineering section filled with parsecs of empty space, brick walls, and staffed by a Chief Engineer who has "Never seen anything like" a "knocked out warp drive", and I think I would be unlikely to label the starship as having a "real" feel to it. For a contrasting film that seems so real, one actually gets claustrophobic watching, I judge "Das Boot" as one of the best; Some of the Alien movies, SW, Firefly, and even Waterworld did well at this also in the SF genre.

 

[3D Master]

One of the things I love about the movie is that it restores the idea that starships are truly massive, powerful vessels, and commanding one is a grave undertaking with great responsibility.

Which is why they promoted a cadet to captain!

Uh...

 

[F. King Daniel]

One of the things I love about the movie is that it restores the idea that starships are truly massive, powerful vessels, and commanding one is a grave undertaking with great responsibility. As much as I enjoyed the previous Trek movies, only a handful of them came close to this idea. In STXI, the Kelvin, the Enterprise, huge, state of the art, complex starships that felt real, that had mass and weight, they conveyed a sense of awe and technical wonder, that these truly were the best ships of the line. I can almost believe that they really did (or will) exist.

Agreed 100%. Although it had less Enterprise than any prior film, they made starships special, in I way I haven't felt since I read Diane Carey's old novels Final Frontier and Dreadnought.

For the first time I "believed" we were seeing people on giant starships and not plywood sets. I thought the huge breweries and power plants looked fantastic as starship guts.