I'm more than a bit discouraged about the Bar

[propita]

Told you I'd be posting about this damn thing again.

Last year, I was so mentally screwed that I was just grabbing at issues and such instead of presenting the information. But I was REAL close to passing. So I figure it I iron out some of that and present the information more clearly start-to-finish, that might make the difference.

I sent a friend a copy of a short-ish essay question, one of the Bar's sample answer, and may answer--to get his opinion. The sample answer is supposed to be one of the "best," scoring 75 or 80, I'm told. I thought mine was pretty good--I had the right issues, adequate rule of law, some decent application. All easy to read. My friend thought I might get 62.5....maybe passing. Maybe. I figured I was a solid 65.

No, I don't believe that. That was a decent answer. He said that he didn't like the form of it. Huh? I figured that I was close to the sample, though I flubbed one thing a bit, but that might not matter so much. So, rather than change what I'm doing, when it seems to fit what another friend and I had figured out should work for me (he's literally a frickin' genius), I'm continuing with my way. Maybe adapt a little.

But I got discouraged. Hubby could tell. He said to ignore my friend, continue on, and do the best I can. He said that since I likely won't work in the field even if I do pass, it doesn't matter. And that if what I'm doing now isn't what the Bar wants, then not to worry. The judges I did work for liked what I did (they liked it a lot), so I have proof that I can do work that is more than acceptable. Just maybe not the way the Bar wants.

But it's still a bit disheartening. I just want to pass, just to be able to say I fought it and won. This is personal to me. I went to law school, not so much to become a lawyer, but to get some self-confidence. I have that, well, somewhat. But it would be nice to have that license on the wall.

My sister told me that she sees a lot of law licenses at the Goodwill, so if I dont pass, go to Goodwill and buy someone's license and photoshop my name onto a picture of it.

 

[CorporalClegg]

I think you're just putting waaaayyy too much pressure on yourself. If you set yourself up to fail, you will. If you've really been studing hard, I bet you'd surprise yourself with just how much of the material you actually know. The pressure you're putting on yourself is making you "forget."

I say take a couple of days off. Go shopping or to a spa for a day, chill and completely put it out of your mind.

What's the worse that can happen? You fail. So then just take it again in February.

 

[propita]

No, I'm not taking it again. This is it, pass or fail. Hubby agrees.

My Mom says the same thing, "The worst that happens is that you fail. So? You didn't really think you'd practice anyway, so how much does it really matter if you know that you did your best?"

Last year was a problem, and I was close, even if my best effort was impaired. This year is my actual best effort. If I can't do it this time, my thinking ability isn't going to change enough.

And I can live with that. I'm really tired of the subject of law.

 

[ancientone51]

First, what have we said about focus and breathe? Do that NOW!

Second, if it doesn't matter, put that in the forefront of your mind. Seriously. One of the best auditions I ever gave was when I didn't want the part. It was a big, open audition thing with a group I'd worked with often. One gal basically was the only one reading for the part. She was doing fine and did the roll. But she and they were getting just a bit tired of only hearing her read. So they asked me if I'd just read in for a while to give her a break. I said sure, sat in a chair on stage and just read it. DAMN, it read very well. They even asked me if I'd do the roll! Over the other gal!

Point to the above: if it really doesn't matter all that much, go in, sit down, trust your instincts and be honest.
Your true skills will be there.

Third, I agree with CorporalClegg get your mind off it. You either know it or you don't right now. Relax.

Fourth, trust in the power of the BBS, we are pulling for you. Send us the exact time/time zone and date of test and all the good mojo we can focus your way will be on its way.

 

[Captain Ice]

I think you're just putting waaaayyy too much pressure on yourself. If you set yourself up to fail, you will. If you've really been studing hard, I bet you'd surprise yourself with just how much of the material you actually know. The pressure you're putting on yourself is making you "forget."

I say take a couple of days off. Go shopping or to a spa for a day, chill and completely put it out of your mind.

What's the worse that can happen? You fail. So then just take it again in February.

I agree totally. You've been studying this daily for how long? Your brain requires a break every once in a while. Otherwise it doesn't function at it's peak. Give it one and you'll be amazed at the difference it makes.

I also beg to differ with something you said, propita. If it didn't matter to you, you wouldn't have put in as much time and effort studying the law over the last couple of years and you sure as hell wouldn't be studying as hard as you are right now to pass. So, while it may not matter for the field in which you see yourself working afterward, it does matter because you want to do this for yourself. Telling yourself that it doesn't matter is like shooting yourself in the foot before running a marathon. You are setting yourself up for failure by telling yourself that it doesn't matter. Telling yourself that it doesn't matter is an excellent example of negative thinking. Tell yourself you are going to pass. Tell yourself that it may be the hardest thing you've ever done, but whatever happens, you are going to pass. Remind yourself how nice that framed license is going to look on your wall. Whatever it takes. Just nip the negative thinking in the bud. It's self defeating.

 

[propita]

Thanks, guys/gals.

It does matter to me to pass. I want it. And I always try to do my best. It just doesn't matter to my...what, future? employment? what?

Today I did a timed 3 hour test from last year. Not so good. And it wore me out.

Maybe you all are right about taking a day off. Or at least part of a day. Hubby has Thursday and Friday off. Maybe we can go out for lunch. Someplace nice. Right now, I'd be happy with Costco pizza. Did I mention that we had Taco Bell for dinner last night? Cooking is not going on too much here right now, and Hubby's hours are horrible. He doesn't get home til 9pm. Hard to eat dinner and go to bed two hours later.

Just a couple more weeks and I can focus on us. THAT is what I'm looking forward to. Taking care of us. I like doing that.

As you can probably tell, my mind is very fatigued and my thinking's a bit all over the place.

 

[Captain Ice]

I think at this point that you need to take a full day. Maybe a half hour or so for review, but that's about it. Oh, and make sure you're getting plenty of sleep and eating properly right now too. These two things are easy to forget about when we are stressed, but make it that much harder on our minds and bodies to deal with the stress.

 

[auntiehill]

^Exactly. If you wear yourself out now, you will never be able to do your best. Educational testing is my field; I grade tests for a living---seriously. I know about test anxiety, and all the tests I handle are high-stakes exams.

You know this stuff. You KNOW you do. Just review a little every day, and get plenty of sleep. Being well-rested and clear-headed is worth more than an extra two hours of review. I have thyroid issues just like you, and I know what my peak hours for energy are. I use those to my best ability and know when I'm most likely to be at the top of my game.

You really need to take a day or two just to DE-STRESS. Go do something that is entirely just for fun. When you come back to your studies, you will find you can absorb more, retain more, and focus much better. Study for a few hours at a shot each day and then quit.

You know this stuff. Trust yourself and your instincts. Just relax and I think you'll do just fine. Don't start making excuses and preparing yourself to fail. Think positively and set yourself realistic goals for how long you can study every day.

Get lots of rest, eat right and keep yourself healthy. You WILL pass this, because you are smart and capable and you know the material.

 

[doubleohfive]

Here's my question: Is this friend (the one you sent the sample question/answer to) in any way a lawyer or working in a related field?

 

[FPAlpha]

Just focus on your good work with the judges because apparently you can do the job well in practical terms.. it's just the theory and especially exams that put a bump in your way.

Cool down, roll over this thing and put that piece of paper on the wall!

 

[RJDiogenes]

Your friend's comments are just playing in to your anxiety; you're just more likely to listen to negative comments at this point. You have to remember how close you came last year and how much better you are this year.

 

[Kestra]

Stop getting so caught up on what other people think, unless they have something definite and constructive that you can actually use. The truth of the matter is, you've studied, you're doing the best you can, and you're going to take the Bar. There's no sense in psyching yourself out now. I think in a way, you're trying to protect yourself in case you fail again by setting up reasons that it will happen or actually self-handicapping by stressing yourself out and making it harder on yourself.

Stop doing that. You're going to take the Bar, and you're going to do fine. You're smart, and beyond that, you've survived failing the exam before. You know it's not the end of the world (and it's really not).

This is what you need to do. Remind yourself that your goal is to pass the Bar. Study in order to do so. Remember that you're fully capable of doing so. Remind yourself that you can handle anything that's ahead of you. Take a full day off, spend time with your husband, no exam talk. Remind yourself of the things that make you happy in life and then get back in the game and kick some ass.

 

[propita]

Here's my question: Is this friend (the one you sent the sample question/answer to) in any way a lawyer or working in a related field?

Yeah, we went to law school together and he passed last year. He tends to be an anxious-type, too.

Your friend's comments are just playing in to your anxiety; you're just more likely to listen to negative comments at this point. You have to remember how close you came last year and how much better you are this year.

Thanks. That's why I'm trying to ignore them.

I'm going to take time (not "timing" it) and go through the steps for prepping to write a PT. I know how to do it, but I need to practice the steps and get it right.

They don't give a lot of facts to use--you just use them over and over. That's one thing giving me a problem--I forgot that. Literally, I forgot that and got into the "don't repeat yourself" idea. Well, if you only have 10 facts, they're going to get used 3 times each to make 7 different points. Makes sense to not inundate with facts, but re-using them....I just forgot.

Oh, and to compensate for memory/thinking problems from my thyroid and health issues...I'm taking a Concerta a day(prescribed to me) until the Bar's over. I do notice a difference.

 

[Holdfast]

I think I mentioned this before in another thread, but try to remember that most professional exams are generally a crapshoot. Do what you can, don't sweat the rest. You'll get through sooner or later. And if you choose not to try again, make sure that's a positive choice not a negative one.

 

[Alpha Romeo]

AS someone who has taken two bar exams let me ask this: the form issue, does it refer to how you organize your answers on essays?

If so, how are you setting out the essays? It should be:

"The issues in this fact pattern can be resoved using XXXX law of contracts. "

Then set forth the issues, the rules your analysis and conclusions.

Didn't you take barbri or something like it?

 

[Mr Awe]

Told He said that he didn't like the form of it. Huh? I figured that I was close to the sample, though I flubbed one thing a bit, but that might not matter so much. So, rather than change what I'm doing, when it seems to fit what another friend and I had figured out should work for me (he's literally a frickin' genius), I'm continuing with my way. Maybe adapt a little.

so I have proof that I can do work that is more than acceptable. Just maybe not the way the Bar wants.

I went to law school, not so much to become a lawyer, but to get some self-confidence. I have that, well, somewhat. But it would be nice to have that license on the wall.

I've quoted some select portions of your post. It's pretty clear that several self contradictory things are going on.

First, you're desperately trying to tell yourself that you don't need to do things their way. You're going to do it your way.

Second, you've also pinned your self-confidence on jumping through their hoops, the way *they* require, in order to get that piece of paper.

Do you see the inconsistency there? It's pretty glaring. It's not going to end well if you convince yourself that you'll do it *your* way yet pin your self-confidence on being able to successfully jump through the hoops *their* way.

Honestly, it's not a good idea to get a degree mainly to boost your self-confidence. A piece of paper won't give that to you. That has to come from within. To be successful in an advanced degree, you generally have to be passionate about it. For a bachelors, yeah, it's ok to slide on through. But, beyond that, you need a level of passion and you need to be able to do things the way they require even when you don't agree, at least for the stage where you're in school. Hey, that's life. Sometimes you have to do things someone else's way.

My suggestion, find something that you can do that will use your talents *your* way that you can be proud of using your own criteria (rather than someone elses). That will boost your confidence.

Mr Awe

 

[PKTrekGirl]

My thoughts (for what they are worth, which is practically nothing):

1. You friend is only one person, and essays have a large subjective component to them. Yes, they are no doubt looking for certain key concepts, buzz words, proof of real understanding, etc. in your response. But writing style, for example, is a very subjective thing to grade. Not all people think alike or write alike, and perhaps your writing style (which obviously appealed to the judges you must have clerked for) doesn't appeal to your friend. But lucky for you, he is not the guy grading the Bar. So good for you.

Back when I took the CPA exam (in the dark ages of the early 1990's) there were several long essays (particularly in Accounting Theory, Auditing, & Business Law) and written-out long problems (in the Practice sections) involved. I was always a good writer, so the format did not intimidate me as much as it did many of my pals. But I know that most of the grading was centered around making sure all the key concepts where there, demonstration of a full understanding of those concepts & the ability to apply them to situations, and (in the case of the long problems) a correct (or close to correct) answer. The writing itself was graded also...but it was a much smaller component of the grade.

What I am saying here is that you shouldn't let ONE person's opinion get you down. Because he is just that - ONE person. And not the person who is grading your exam. Focus on gaining a good understanding of the concepts you are discussing, and ability to properly apply those concepts, and on the completeness of your answers. You have basic good grammar skills - we can all see that. So the only thing that is left past that is writing style. And in that regard, all you can do is what you do. You can't really change that much, at this point. And while granted, you don't write legalize here at TrekBBS, I don't see anything wrong at all with your writing style.

2. Forget about that Goodwill idea. You are perfectly capable of earning your own wall hanging. And 10 year from now, you probably won't even know where you put it (were IS that CPA certificate, anyway? )

 

[Mr Awe]

Here's my question: Is this friend (the one you sent the sample question/answer to) in any way a lawyer or working in a related field?

Yeah, we went to law school together and he passed last year. He tends to be an anxious-type, too.

Your friend's comments are just playing in to your anxiety; you're just more likely to listen to negative comments at this point. You have to remember how close you came last year and how much better you are this year.

Thanks. That's why I'm trying to ignore them.

Sorry in advance, I don't want to sound mean, but holy cow, your two responses above aren't really that smart.

So, there's this guy who went to law school with you and *he* has already passed. He gives you good honest feedback, maybe not what you want to hear but at least he's not whitewashing things to be polite. Not pointing out a problem could lead to you not passing the bar. It does seem like he has your best interests at heart. And, your response, well he's anxious and I'm going to ignore him?!

Sure, you can't follow everyone's advice, but sometimes you have to listen to someone more than others! I suggest you take his advice on board. I don't mean stress over it, but incorporate it into your approach.

At any rate, good luck!

Mr Awe

 

[propita]

Thanks, Mr. Awe, for your responses.

My friend and I were neck and neck gpa-wise in school. He only pulled ahead at the end because my thinking ability went south with my health issues. He wouldn't have gotten through first year but for my explaining what was wanted on the essays--what information and how presented. So I do know how to answer questions in the manner desired. I just was unable to do that last year.

I was literally mere points away last year. One problem was that I really couldn't think clearly, which made me panic, and my answers were more smash and grab than really clear IRAC. Completely unlike what I had done in school. Last year, I had decent law and almost-decent app, but none of my usually near-ocd organization that would lead the reader through it easily. I really could not think clearly. A professor described it as taking the Bar on while on drugs, but in my case, I wasn't on the right dosage of meds that I needed. At that time, I was at about 1/3 the dosage of the thyroid med that I finally ended up with--that seriously slows down one's thinking.

I'm following one of many forms suggested by Barbri. IRAC all the way. Issue (or sub-issue) question, rule of law, "Here, there is" or "Here, A can argue...B can argue", "I conclude"--and then, if needed, an answer for the main question. So what my friend meant be "form," I don't know and didn't want to ask. He's thinking about other things now.

I had spoken with another friend (the genius who graduated at the top of his law school class) some months ago. His style was similar to mine in layout. He suggested I keep mine, clean it up a bit from my last year's answers, and move forward.

I know I'm a bit defensive, but that's because I know that I could have passed, and that my failing was likely due to those health issues. Those are (mostly) taken care of. But I'm scared--what if it really was me, despite how well I did in school and all? What if I can't conform sufficiently to what they want? Jeez! I explained this shit to people--a half dozen would not have passed school or the Bar without my help--their own words! But what if everything that makes me good at writing (thoroughness is my strong suit) is what screws me up for the Bar?

 

[Robert Maxwell]

I do not mean this in any way to attack you, propita, because you seem like a fairly decent person, but I have noticed that you have a very high opinion of yourself while blaming any shortcomings you have on health issues. In essence, you excuse yourself from your personal failings by attributing them to factors you can't control. It seems to me that you aren't taking responsibility for the situation, and instead you just want to shield yourself from what you see as an inevitable failure.