Redemption Part II Nagging Question

[PorthosShadow]

Is it just me or doesn't it seem strange that Picard doesn't ask Sela if there are any survivors from The Enterprise C still resideing on Romulus. I guess in the 24th century "Leave No One Behind" is a thing of the past. Honestly, they could have had her say no and the question would be dropped right then and there.

However, if she says yes then it leaves the possibility open for a future episode that involves a covert rescue mission or a prisoner exchange story. Anyway, I wish Picard had asked about any survivors. I think either answer could have opened a big ole can of planet Genesis worms.

 

[Anwar]

He probably couldn't trust her to tell the truth. If she said yes, then it could just be setting up their rescue team for capture by the Romulans.

 

[Christopher]

Picard didn't believe Sela's allegations about the Enterprise-C anyway. It's not like she presented any unambiguous evidence. As far as he could tell, it was just a Romulan mind game.

 

[Timo]

...Still, he seemed to devote a bit too little attention to it. Asking Sela pointed questions might have helped expose the game, which the Romulans apparently considered worth playing for unknown reasons. OTOH, the camera seemed to devote too much attention to this side plot if Picard indeed dismissed it as irrelevant.

I think the camera (that is, the writer) was more at fault here than Picard in dealing with this bizarre diversion. But had the Sela story been properly explored in a subsequent episode, then this expository bit here, however clumsy, would have been more or less justified. Too bad there never was such payoff.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Trekker4747]

The Sela thing should've really been more deeply explored overall. Shsme it wasn't, hell it would've been nice to devote a movie to it, would've been a good way to get Crosby into the movies. But those making the movies, it seems, weren't that.... creative.

 

[DonIago]

Seems like a DNA test was in order...not that I'd trust a Romulan not to have a way of faking that, especially if they knew they were likely to be tested.

 

[Mr Silver]

Seems like a DNA test was in order...not that I'd trust a Romulan not to have a way of faking that, especially if they knew they were likely to be tested.

It does seem a bit pointless, since Tasha Yar didn't really have much influence in Starfleet (she was a LT onboard the Enterprise, but she likely didn't have any pull with Starfleet Command) thus surgically altering a Romulan to look like Tasha Yar would be a waste of time

Something like this would have occured to Picard, therefore he had to accept that Sela really was the daughter of Tasha Yar, no matter how implausible the circumstances, he had to consider it as legit, thus the shock and confusion on his face when she explained who he was

 

[BolianAuthor]

Picard never believed Sela for a moment. Even if he did, he had no memory of the events from the alternate timeline. He only even entertained the notion after Guinan spoke to him, and even then, with their relationship being what it was, I still got the impression that he was just humoring Guinan.

Picard of all people, knows what great deceivers the Romulans are, and of what lengths they'll go to extract information.

 

[Christopher]

The Sela thing should've really been more deeply explored overall.

I wish it had never happened in the first place. It was a lame, gimmicky way to bring back an actress whose character had been killed off. It didn't serve any real story purpose. And Denise Crosby looked ridiculous in that hideous Romulan haircut.

Shsme it wasn't, hell it would've been nice to devote a movie to it, would've been a good way to get Crosby into the movies. But those making the movies, it seems, weren't that.... creative.

It wouldn't have worked as a movie, since there's too much backstory to explain to the uninitiated. Sure, there have been a couple of movies that have been sequels to episodes, but the backstory's been straightforward enough: "On Earth 200 years ago I was a prince, then Kirrrrk exiled me to this hellhole." "The Borg are space zombies who assimilated me and made me kill for them and now I'm Captain Ahab." For this, you'd have to explain that Tasha was a former crewmate, that she died, that there was an alternate timeline where she didn't die, that she went back in time 22 years, that she was captured by the Romulans, that she had a kid with one of them, etc. etc. Heck, it was already so convoluted that explaining it dragged "Redemption" to a halt.

 

[Timo]

At least it gave a Trek villain a somewhat unconventional motivation for being a Trek villain. Won't say imaginative, but at least it was unexpected.

Not that it explained why she would choose a path of villainy against the UFP. But at least it would explain why she'd be all messed up and likely to choose some path of villainy. "Messed up" won't make for easy writing, though, and I guess prospective sequel writers would have been extremely hard pressed trying to figure out how Sela could rise to a prominent and trusted position in the Star Empire, what her open agenda was, whether she had hidden agendas, and so forth. An ill-defined villain is worse than a cardboard one. Many a "24" season or "24" copy has suffered from such aimlessly wandering characters who seem to exist solely for the purpose of providing unlikely and implausible plot twists.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[SpyOne]

Is it just me or doesn't it seem strange that Picard doesn't ask Sela if there are any survivors from The Enterprise C still resideing on Romulus. I guess in the 24th century "Leave No One Behind" is a thing of the past. Honestly, they could have had her say no and the question would be dropped right then and there.

However, if she says yes then it leaves the possibility open for a future episode that involves a covert rescue mission or a prisoner exchange story. Anyway, I wish Picard had asked about any survivors. I think either answer could have opened a big ole can of planet Genesis worms.

Is there any point in asking a question when you do not expect an honest answer?
The Warren Commission, investigating the death of President Kennedy, became aware of rumors that Lee Harvey Oswald had worked as an informant for the FBI. They discussed whether they should call the FBI in and ask them about it. Reportedly, Dulles (the former head of the CIA) said there would be no point, as they'd just deny it. Warren, the head of the Commission, asked, "Even if it's true?", to which Dulles replied "especially if it's true."

The Romulans would not admit to having Federation Citizens prisoner. Sela was still with the Romulans. If they still had such prisoners, and she knew it, she would deny it. If they didn't, and she knew it, she'd deny it.

I suppose asking that question might establish whether she knew (or believed she knew) the answer to the question, but even that not definitively, as she might well realize that she should just deny it regardless of her doubts.

 

[Mysterion]

The Sela thing should've really been more deeply explored overall.

I wish it had never happened in the first place. It was a lame, gimmicky way to bring back an actress whose character had been killed off. It didn't serve any real story purpose. And Denise Crosby looked ridiculous in that hideous Romulan haircut.

This. A thousand times, this. Thank you, sir.

 

[Mr Silver]

I wish it had never happened in the first place. It was a lame, gimmicky way to bring back an actress whose character had been killed off. It didn't serve any real story purpose. And Denise Crosby looked ridiculous in that hideous Romulan haircut.

I'm with you on this, Sela was a terrible character, however if Denise Crosby really wanted to come back, why did they not just make Ishara Yar her "twin sister" and have Ishara as a recurring character, perhaps one who joins the Maquis?

 

[PorthosShadow]

I wish it had never happened in the first place. It was a lame, gimmicky way to bring back an actress whose character had been killed off. It didn't serve any real story purpose. And Denise Crosby looked ridiculous in that hideous Romulan haircut.

I'm with you on this, Sela was a terrible character, however if Denise Crosby really wanted to come back, why did they not just make Ishara Yar her "twin sister" and have Ishara as a recurring character, perhaps one who joins the Maquis?

Or instead of Sela or Ishara why not Tasha her self who has been living with The Romulans for a long time. I think it would have been incredibly interesting to see where her character would have gone given those changes because of something Picard did.

 

[DonIago]

Crosby might have been put off by the idea of needing to wear old age make-up for all of her appearances at that point.

 

[PorthosShadow]

Crosby might have been put off by the idea of needing to wear old age make-up for all of her appearances at that point.

Who says she had to look really old because I have to believe by the 24th century there are ways to slow the aging process. Maybe humanity isn't that vain by the 24th century but living in an alien society could change ones attitude.

 

[Trekker4747]

The Sela thing should've really been more deeply explored overall.

I wish it had never happened in the first place. It was a lame, gimmicky way to bring back an actress whose character had been killed off. It didn't serve any real story purpose. And Denise Crosby looked ridiculous in that hideous Romulan haircut.

Well, I'll meet you half-way on this. I liked the way they brought back Crosby in "Yesterday's Enterprise" but the way, and reason, she was brought back in the Redemption episodes was, a bit, gimmicky. And, IIRC, it was done because Crosby enjoyed coming back for that one episode so much so it seemed to be kind-of stroking her ego a bit when she didn't deserve it after she left the show. On most shows when you break a contract and leave mid-season the show killing your character off is the creators' way of saying "Fuck you. Sure, try and be a big star because you can't come back here."

It's fairly common for shows to kill off a character or at least assassinate the character's, er, "character" to make it almost impossible to bring them back. (See: Kutner, House, John Kelly, NYPD Blue.) But the fucked-up thing is that in Star Trek being dead isn't enough to for a character to be "gone."

So Tasha got an "out." Crosby got an "out" to correct the "mistake" of her leaving the show a dozen-or-so episodes into the first season. ( Really, Denise, get over youself!) And Crosby's been trying to shoe-horn her way back in to Trek ever since.

Now.

I enjoyed how she was brought back in "Yesterday's Enterprise." It was an F'd up situation enough that she could concievably "exsist" again and, well, it was a damn fine episode. I also admit the reason why she was brought back in Redemption was stupid and the use of her was stupid but I'm a sucker for time-twist mind-fucks so I loved the idea of her going back in time from an alternate "present" to the "real past" where she caused influence onto the "real present", bonus points for the mind-fuck that that alternate "Picard" probably caused the whole mess to begin with by allowing Tasha to go back in time.

Again, I'm a sucker for time-travel twists like that so I enjoyed the hell out of the way Crosby was brought back in such a manner. I just wish it was done a bit better, maybe they could've found her/recovered her as an aged Tasha and she dies over the course of the two-parter as the one who ends the crisis, giving Tasha a meaningful death.

 

[Christopher]

Crosby might have been put off by the idea of needing to wear old age make-up for all of her appearances at that point.

Who says she had to look really old because I have to believe by the 24th century there are ways to slow the aging process.

Indeed. At the time of "Redemption," had she lived, alt-Tasha would've only been 52. Allowing for 24th-century longevity, that would correspond to maybe 40 by today's standards -- only 6 or 7 years older than Denise Crosby was at the time. So very little in the way of aging makeup would be required.

 

[DonIago]

Fair enough.

When Sela first appeared I really hoped it was leading up to some sort of situation in which they'd find alternate-Tasha.

 

[Whill]

I loved "Yesterday's Enterprise". I also thought that Sela was a cool idea, but just not ultilized well. She ended up only being a reason to have Denise Crosby come back for another role, which was really only for the fans. It didn't do anything for the story. Picard didn't believe her anyway as he has no memory of the alternate timeline that Sela's mother came from.

So more than the discussion of potential Enterprise C prisoners, I feel it was lame that we never saw or heard about Sela again after "Unification".