The Kobayashi Maru Solution.

[Timo]

That part of the movie looks rather convoluted anyway: Kirk's unlikeable rebellious character has to be justified somehow, so Starfleet is made to look bad in comparison. Not only do they subject Kirk to a stupid test that is designed to be unlikeable (to the audience, as well as to Kirk), they stupidly allow him to take it again and again until he manages to turn the test against its makers.

The test can't be purely about making the testee feel the fear of defeat, or else Kirk wouldn't be allowed to take it again. Probably Spock merely uses the "you don't understand what this was about" argument as a blunt instrument to clobber Kirk in the hearing, even though the test indeed is just another simulator run, typical of the lot, dozens of these performed per day. A bit more difficult than most, though, and therefore keenly observed by psychologists in addition to other types of instructor. But those had probably gotten bored of watching Kirk after the second run...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Captrek]

Spock never struck me as a gambling man

Spock is not averse to competition. He often plays chess and at least once expressed an interest in learning poker.

I don’t think he’d be averse to making bets. He’d view it as a math problem. If the probability of winning times the benefit that would result from winning is greater than the probability of losing times the harm that would result from losing, then the expected value of the wager is positive and it is logical to make the wager.

In this case, it’s not even really gambling, because he knows the simulator is rigged, so he thinks he can’t possibly lose. The idea of cheating doesn’t even occur to him. (It is cheating, and Kirk probably gets a zero grade for the test run, but he’s willing to take the zero to win the bet. In the words of Chris Cornell, “if you think you've won, you never saw me change the game that we have been playing.”) Spock needs or wants something from Kirk, Kirk offers a bet Spock knows Kirk can’t win, and Spock, quite logically, takes advantage of the opportunity. He’s under no obligation to reveal what he knows about the simulator.

the movie didn't have the time for this unless you're suggesting they cut something to accommodate it.

Obviously, there are some dumb moments here and there that I’d rather have cut. The romantic tangle between Spock and Uhura. Kirk reacting to a series of medications as if they’re being administered by Bugs Bunny. Kirk being chased by a CGI monster on Delta Vega. Kirk being chased by another CGI monster on Delta Vega. As for my own suggested KM story, skip the part about the commendation for original thinking, it’s not necessary.

Overall, what I’m envisioning would have increased the runtime a little, but I think it would have been very much worth it. Nobody is happy with the way the KM is handled in the actual movie. It adds nothing original of merit to the story. It takes less time than my version but doesn’t justify the time that it takes. It appears to be shoehorned into the film only because it’s expected. It mechanically acts out familiar conversations from TWOK, and it doesn’t even make sense. I believe that the story as I have envisioned it flows naturally, almost inevitably, from the characters. It’s a personal story instead of a pathetic attempt to say something profound.

What’s the point of the no-win scenario? According to the actual film, “the purpose is to experience fear. Fear in the face of certain death.” I think we all agree that makes no sense whatsoever. In my vision, the Kobayashi Maru isn’t some infamous trial showing what cadets are like in their most trying times, and it’s not presented to everybody. It’s just something the instructors throw in there every now and then when a cadet starts to think he’s invincible and needs a lesson in humility. You know, somebody like Jim Kirk. They do it to remind him that there are situations that he can’t win, and that when they evaluate command fitness they look at more than whether he can outwit every test scenario they throw at him.

In the actual movie, why does Kirk take the test a second time? No reason is given or even hinted at. Why does he take it a third time and hack the simulator? What is the stunt supposed to prove? What point is he trying to make? Whatever his point, why does he care about making it? Pine’s Kirk isn’t the type to be a political activist. Why is there a hearing attended by hundreds of cadets as if the whole word suddenly revolves around Will Hunting hacking a simulator? In my version of the story, we know why Kirk faces the KM scenario a second time: because thinks he can rescue the ship and bet on it. We know why he takes it a third time and hacks the simulator: because he lost the first bet to Spock and he’s driven to hoist Spock on his own petard and end up on top. The only point he’s making is “You can’t beat me.” [Before anybody suggests he was making that point to the instructors in the actual film: he wasn’t in competition with his instructors, and trying to turn the simulation room into a competition with his instructors makes him look juvenile, not clever.] Spock thinks that he has beaten Kirk once and that his second victory is inevitable, but Kirk is one step ahead of him and beats him big time. It’s a classic “Kirk beats Spock’s logic by thinking outside the box” moment, and I find it rather poetic that this is almost exactly how TOS starts if you watch in production order starting with WNMHGB. More importantly, it’s a more believable motivation for Kirk.

It also gives Spock something more interesting to do than utter that nonsense about fear. In his “learn to deal with loss” conversation with Kirk, he would talk of the consequences of being controlled by feelings of pride or embarrassment and claim that, as a Vulcan, he is immune to both. Then he loses the second bet, has to endure some kind of embarrassment, and tries not to be affected by it or not to show that he’s affected by it. It sets up the Kirk-Spock rivalry in a more interesting and believable way than that lame argument at the hearing in the actual film.

 

[Timo]

It sort of defeats the whole Kirk/Spock story arc, though. In the movie, the two start out as blood enemies, hating each others' guts from the first shared look, the first word uttered. In the amended version, the Vulcan would be in congenial terms with Kirk at first, sharing a good-natured bet. Could this man maroon Kirk on Delta Vega, then nearly kill him in anger when he returns?

How about having Kirk do Kobayashi Maru over and over again in a bet with Uhura instead? "I beat the Klingons, you tell me your first name. I don't take Starfleet or this test seriously, you should learn not to as well. I have nothing riding on the outcome of this test, but I do care about this bet a little - I have my priorities straight. I'm James T. Kirk." Starfleet could let Kirk hit his head on the brick wall if they, too, had nothing real riding on the test, save for that "let's teach'im some humility" angle.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[DonIago]

I would have to dispute the assertion that "Nobody is happy with the way the KM is handled in the actual movie." I was just fine with it, and I suspect the majority of movie-goers felt the same. Yeah it could have been improved, but I tend to find that's the case for almost every movie out there. Even Casablanca and Citizen Kane, generally considered to be the best films of all time, aren't without their points that can be picked at.

 

[Mr Silver]

I would have to dispute the assertion that "Nobody is happy with the way the KM is handled in the actual movie." I was just fine with it, and I suspect the majority of movie-goers felt the same. Yeah it could have been improved, but I tend to find that's the case for almost every movie out there. Even Casablanca and Citizen Kane, generally considered to be the best films of all time, aren't without their points that can be picked at.

Well Said!

I agree, the Kobayashi Maru element was thrown in as an "Easter Egg" for TOS fans and also as a way to start the "mini-rivalry" between Kirk and Spock

 

[RookieBatman]

I would have to dispute the assertion that "Nobody is happy with the way the KM is handled in the actual movie." I was just fine with it, and I suspect the majority of movie-goers felt the same. Yeah it could have been improved, but I tend to find that's the case for almost every movie out there. Even Casablanca and Citizen Kane, generally considered to be the best films of all time, aren't without their points that can be picked at.

I get what you're saying, but I have trouble with the suggestion that Casablanca is anything but perfect.

 

[DonIago]

Do you really want to go through the logical flaws in that film? Really???
(laughs)

 

[Captrek]

It sort of defeats the whole Kirk/Spock story arc, though. In the movie, the two start out as blood enemies, hating each others' guts from the first shared look, the first word uttered.

Defeats it? I think it motivates it. It shows how the conflict naturally arises as a consequence of their personalities, instead of having them hate each other before they even know each other simply because JJ Abrams told them to.

In the amended version, the Vulcan would be in congenial terms with Kirk at first, sharing a good-natured bet.

I don’t mean this as a complaint, but I’d like to ask a favor for me and for other people who post story ideas. When there are details that we leave out and you have to fill in those details with your imagination, try to do so in a way that flatters the story instead of a way that weakens it.

My story idea does not require them to start out on congenial terms or that there be anything friendly about their bet. The stakes are certainly nothing so banal as money. They’re something that matters to these two people. (I don’t know what the stakes should be. There are still details that would have to be worked out to turn the story outline into a screenplay. Maybe you will come up with a good idea.) Kirk and Spock start out not as friends but as cadet and instructor/advisor, with Spock telling Kirk how to think and act and Kirk not buying it. It’s anger and pride, not friendly sport, that motivates Kirk to face the scenario a second time and bet Spock that he will rescue the ship.

When he figures out that the simulator is rigged and Spock knew it, that fuels his anger and his determination to win. It drives him to defeat Spock by turning his apparent advantage against him. So does Spock’s claim that he is immune to embarrassment. (Kind of like the smug “Certain you don’t know what irritation is?” line from the WNMHGB scene mentioned earlier.)

It would start out the rivalry in a way that makes sense. In the actual film, Kirk says “I don’t think you like the fact that I beat your test,” but he doesn’t beat the test. What he does is the high-tech equivalent of bringing another test into the exam room and turning it in instead of the test he was given. In my version of the story, Kirk does legitimately beat Spock in the only matter on which they are in actual competition, which is the (carefully worded) bet.

Of course Spock would not respect what Kirk has done. A lot of instructors and other cadets invest their valuable time in the simulator, and Spock doesn’t respect how Kirk wastes their time for the sake of his personal beef with Spock. (He does not, however, have to waste it quite as much as he does in the film.)

Kirk, on the other hand, is pleased with himself. He doesn’t have a hearing like the one in the film in which he argues (ineffectively) that what he did was right and should be commended and that he’s teaching everybody a valuable lesson. Rather, he knows he’s getting into trouble and he’s willing to do so for the sake of sticking it to somebody he dislikes. This is the character who drove his stepfather’s car off a cliff, picked a 1-on-4 fight with Cupcake’s posse, and is “the only genius level repeat offender in the midwest.” My version is much more consistent with that character than what we see in the actual film.

How about having Kirk do Kobayashi Maru over and over again in a bet with Uhura instead? "I beat the Klingons, you tell me your first name."

Interesting thought, but I think it works better with Spock. The film stretches the first name thing kind of thin as it is, and adding more of it would turn it into a bizarre and creepy obsession. More to the point, the dramatic purpose of the KM story is to establish the rivalry between Kirk and Spock, not between Kirk and Uhura.

Starfleet could let Kirk hit his head on the brick wall if they, too, had nothing real riding on the test, save for that "let's teach'im some humility" angle.

Exactly. In the film as is, this doesn’t make sense. In my version, it does.

I agree, the Kobayashi Maru element was thrown in as an "Easter Egg" for TOS fans

Correct. It is thrown in as an Easter Egg and mechanically acts out events previously described and they happen the way they do only because that’s how they were previously described. In my version, things happen the way they were previously described because it makes sense for them to happen that way. Even viewers who aren’t familiar with TWOK are given good reasons for the story to unfold as it does. The reason Kirk takes the test a second time, and the reason he takes it a third time and hacks the simulator arise naturally. The reason the KM scenario is given, and the reason it is given to Kirk in particular, are plausible and follow from the situations and the characters instead of the movie’s nonsense about it being a brutal psychological test that everybody has to endure and everybody hates, and that serves a purpose the film is unable to explain.

and also as a way to start the "mini-rivalry" between Kirk and Spock

But the film does it in a way that doesn’t make sense, while my version does it in a way that does make sense.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Re: Should novels set in the JJVerse rectify the film's plot holes?

I would have to dispute the assertion that "Nobody is happy with the way the KM is handled in the actual movie." I was just fine with it, and I suspect the majority of movie-goers felt the same. Yeah it could have been improved, but I tend to find that's the case for almost every movie out there. Even Casablanca and Citizen Kane, generally considered to be the best films of all time, aren't without their points that can be picked at.

This.

 

[Captrek]

A lot of instructors and other cadets invest their valuable time in the simulator, and Spock doesn’t respect how Kirk wastes their time for the sake of his personal beef with Spock. (He does not, however, have to waste it quite as much as he does in the film.)

As long as I’m on the subject, the way it plays out in my version has no apple munching, no “Pew pew!”, no overt contempt toward McCoy, Uhura, and the other cadets in the simulator, and in general dispenses with the juvenility.

The other cadets don’t know that the simulator is rigged, and the people who do know that the simulator is rigged don’t that Kirk knows — let alone that he has hacked it. Kirk plays it straight. The other cadets don’t know right away about the rigging and the hacking. As far as they know, all they’re seeing is a brilliant and/or unbelievably lucky captain overcoming a situation that to them had looked hopeless. The instructors are still able to evaluate the performance of the other cadets, and the cadets get a taste of what life is going to be like serving under Captain Kirk.

I would have to dispute the assertion that "Nobody is happy with the way the KM is handled in the actual movie." I was just fine with it, and I suspect the majority of movie-goers felt the same. Yeah it could have been improved, but I tend to find that's the case for almost every movie out there. Even Casablanca and Citizen Kane, generally considered to be the best films of all time, aren't without their points that can be picked at.

This.

It could have been improved? That’s a major understatement. Could it have been done much worse? The film gives us:

• No explanation of why Kirk took the test a second time.
• No good reason why Kirk took the test a third time and hacked the simulator.
• No explanation why Kirk was allowed to take the test three times.
• No coherent explanation of the purpose of the test.
• No reason why cadets in general consider the test to be some kind of psychological torture.
• Kirk being completely disrespectful and wasting the time of the other cadets who have done nothing unkind to him, when he should be setting the groundwork for a loyal crew under his command and establishing for himself a reputation for loyalty to the crew under his command. I know it’s not the original timeline, but this is still supposed to be Star Trek, isn’t it?
• No explanation why this incident is such a major event that life at Starfleet Academy apparently comes to a standstill so everybody can attend the hearing.
• Spock saying, “You have failed to divine the purpose of the test. The purpose is to experience fear. Fear in the face of certain death. To accept that fear, and maintain control of oneself and one's crew.” Has anyone defended this as making any sense?
• Spock saying that “the principle lesson” of the test is that no-win scenarios really exist, as if making cadets face a simulation they know to be rigged somehow convinces them that reality behaves like the rigged simulator. It certainly wouldn’t convince a Vulcan.
• Kirk saying “I don't think you like the fact that I beat your test” when he didn’t beat Spock’s test and has presumably not received a passing score for his performance.

Nothing in that whole sequence makes any sense.

Tell me, what positive contributions did this film make to the story of the Kobayashi Maru? Enough to justify the non sequiturs, plot holes, and character assassination?

 

[DonIago]

I can only hope you're not as joyless a person as you sound up above, as you ruthlessly and microscopically analyze a five-minute segment of a movie to death, not out of a desire to understand it better, but in an apparent urge to spread hatred of it.

I'm reminded of listening to Richard Ebert's commentaries on films...the points where he brings up questions of dubious logic and unexplained developments. But you know what? He can look at the overall film itself and say "Yeah, it's not perfect...but it's still wonderful entertainment." The sense you give me when you dwell on this is that you're incapable of appreciating Casablanca or Citizen Kane or any movie where anything isn't fully explained (which is to say, any film) because you're left with questions, and for you a movie is a failure if you have questions after seeing it.

Welcome to the world of cinema, where dictatorial regimes can create documents so powerful even they can't override them, and where a dying man's last wish can be boiled down to a longing for a sleigh. Where a girl gets a bump on the head and imagines a fantastical world incorporating aspects of people she knows as her subconscious teaches her a lesson. And where these things occur frequently within a 120-minute time-span because audiences don't need and shouldn't need to have every occurrence within a film explicitly broken-down for them.

What's the goal of the KM scene? To give folks familiar with the KM scenario and Kirk's background a chance to see a Kirk who is both familiar and a stranger to us take the test the one time it most mattered...the time when he would beat the test that can't be beaten. But more importantly within the context of this film, to establish a foundation of dislike between himself and Spock, which will resonate through the remainder of the film.

I could address your concerns on a point-by-point basis, but why should I have to, and why on Earth should the film need to? Kirk's stubborn, so he asks to take the test again, and when he decides the problem isn't internal to the test, but rather external, he addresses his problem with it. Starfleet has no reason -not- to let him repeat the test, and it's a psych exam to begin with, so they stand to learn something new about him, so why wouldn't they let him repeat it? Besides, it's clear he's considered an up-and-comer at this point, so maybe there's some who think that if anyone actually can come up with a way to beat the scenario (though I doubt they thought Kirk would resort to outright hacking) then it just might be Kirk. Why do the Borg only send one ship at a time to Earth? To learn how humans respond to a no-win scenario.

Instead of fuming about all these unanswered questions, ask yourself how the movie would in any way be a better film by taking the time and wrenching itself away from the main plot in order to answer all of these points that make no difference to the story and that a reasonably astute viewer can form answers to on their own.

 

[Captrek]

I can only hope you're not as joyless a person as you sound up above, as you ruthlessly and microscopically analyze a five-minute segment of a movie to death, not out of a desire to understand it better, but in an apparent urge to spread hatred of it.

Joyless person? Urge to spread hatred?

I came up with what I think is a pretty neat idea of how this part of the film could have been done much better, I posted it, explained my reasons for it, and am responding to criticism of it. I explained what I see as some of the failings of the actual implementation and asked others what virtues they see in it that might outweigh the flaws. IMO, calling me joyless and hateful is not a very good answer to that question.

I'm reminded of listening to Richard Ebert's commentaries on films...the points where he brings up questions of dubious logic and unexplained developments. But you know what? He can look at the overall film itself and say "Yeah, it's not perfect...but it's still wonderful entertainment." The sense you give me when you dwell on this is that you're incapable of appreciating Casablanca or Citizen Kane or any movie where anything isn't fully explained (which is to say, any film) because you're left with questions, and for you a movie is a failure if you have questions after seeing it.

Of course I can look past dubious logic and unexplained developments if the movie earns them. If throwing in a non sequitur is necessary to get the plot to where it needs to be to contribute something good to the movie, fine. I don’t believe that to be the case here, but I invited you to make the case that it is. You have responded with character attacks. Sheesh.

ask yourself how the movie would in any way be a better film by taking the time and wrenching itself away from the main plot

Wrenching itself away from the main plot? You make it sound like the attack on Vulcan has begun or something and I’m trying to put it on the back burner and let the tension fade while we do exposition on the KM.

Other than a quick “Welcome back, Spock,” we haven’t seen Nero since the cold open. There is no other major plot thread to wrench away from. The development of the Kirk-Spock rivalry at the Academy is the plot at this point in the movie, and it’s worth taking a few extra minutes to do it in a way that shows intelligence, makes sense and is consistent with the characters as they are otherwise portrayed in the film and with later plot developments.

I believe the actual execution is badly flawed and could have been done much better. I’m sorry you think I have to have some kind of character flaw to say that about anything of which you don’t have a similar opinion.

 

[T'Girl]

Kirk being completely disrespectful and wasting the time of the other cadets ...

One of the things modern service academies do is snow the cadets under with almost too much to do, to teach them time management and the evaluate whether they can take the personal load. There's a psychological testing aspect to this as well. Kirk pulled the other cadets in the simulator away from, no doubt, more important things in their cadet lives.

Beyond that, I believe this Kirk, unlike the original Kirk, was seriously facing being thrown out of the academy for his actions. He could have also been damaging the other cadets records as well, guilt by association.

No explanation why this incident is such a major event that life at Starfleet Academy apparently comes to a standstill so everybody can attend the hearing.

Actual their presence made a good amount of sense. If all those behind Kirk at the hearing are members of Kirk's academy class, then they are there because one of their members was charged with a serious offense and they are a team. And one of their team members screwed up.

Unfortunately for the future image of their class in general, this Kirk isn't a team player.

Spock saying that “the principle lesson” of the test is that no-win scenarios really exist

The no-win scenarios do exist, but wouldn't this lesson have been better taught in a philosophy class? Or by immersing the cadets over the course of four years with the history and traditions of Starfleet. Reminding them at every opportunity of the many sacrifices made by those who came before them. That outside the Federation there existed the wilderness and the barbarians?

 

[Captrek]

Spock saying that “the principle lesson” of the test is that no-win scenarios really exist

The no-win scenarios do exist, but wouldn't this lesson have been better taught in a philosophy class? Or by immersing the cadets over the course of four years with the history and traditions of Starfleet. Reminding them at every opportunity of the many sacrifices made by those who came before them.

Exactly! Pike provides smart insight about no-win scenarios in just a few words to Kirk. The KM as portrayed in the film, dwelt on for much longer, fails to say anything interesting about the subject and is not at all believable as the valuable teaching tool and brutal psychological test it is claimed to be.

If all those behind Kirk at the hearing are members of Kirk's academy class, then they are there because one of their members was charged with a serious offense and they are a team. And one of their team members screwed up.

The major screw up, IMO, is Kirk’s infantile behavior during the simulation. He wastes the valuable time of the staff and his fellow cadets and proves nothing except how little he values them. It’s impossible for me to believe this behavior coming from somebody who’s about to become one of Starfleet’s greatest captains. If he played it straight so that the simulation would still be useful for everybody else, it would be an ethical violation with no real harm done to his fellow cadets, he’d take his punishment and go on. It would be a good start to the legend of James T. Kirk instead of a childish tantrum.

 

[F. King Daniel]

The major screw up, IMO, is Kirk’s infantile behavior during the simulation. He wastes the valuable time of the staff and his fellow cadets and proves nothing except how little he values them. It’s impossible for me to believe this behavior coming from somebody who’s about to become one of Starfleet’s greatest captains. If he played it straight so that the simulation would still be useful for everybody else, it would be an ethical violation with no real harm done to his fellow cadets, he’d take his punishment and go on. It would be a good start to the legend of James T. Kirk instead of a childish tantrum.

Childish tantrum? That sounds a less like what happened in the film and a lot for like your reaction to it. Played it straight? He was making a fucking joke at the expense of the academy. I'm sorry it doesn't mesh with your Wrath of Khan fantasies, but please get over it.

They were doing the for the third time. Everyone knew what was gonna happen, there was nothing for anyone else to learn. Uhura and McCoy didn't even want to be there - they were humouring him. The whole point of the KM in STXI was to show that Kirk didn't yet understand his father's sacrifice, that he refuses surrender in the face of impossible odds, that he's contemptuous of authority that he finds a way to win in a situation no one else can, by any means.

Any "serious psychological testing" sould have been the first time round, a la Saavik in Wrath of Khan.

 

[DonIago]

^Agreed.

Heck, if we want to knock the setting in which we see the scenario occur, perhaps the first time Kirk takes the test it's in a simulator more akin to the Enterprise bridge. But by take three, TPTB have better things to do with their time, so they bump Kirk to the "trashy" simulator figuring there will be less clean-up time when he's done blowing up the ship. As I said above, they don't outright turn him down since they figure there's still an off-chance he may surprise them, but they don't make him a priority either.

In fact...here's a nice bit of subversion...maybe Spock's there not because he's required to be there, but because he knows Kirk's backstory (as made apparent later) and on a level he wouldn't generally admit to is intrigued by this human's desire to keep fighting the unwinnable fight. I seriously doubt most people take the test three times, especially since after the first time they know they supposedly can't win. I could see academic advisors counseling against taking the test more than twice on the grounds that it might reflect poorly on the test-taker.

 

[SpyOne]

Exactly! Pike provides smart insight about no-win scenarios in just a few words to Kirk. The KM as portrayed in the film, dwelt on for much longer, fails to say anything interesting about the subject and is not at all believable as the valuable teaching tool and brutal psychological test it is claimed to be.

See, I don't think Pike was talking about a no-win scenario at all. Some of the crew survived, which in that situation was win.

The Kobayashi Maru is no win because:

• you must respond to the ship in distress. Not going to their aid is fail.
• It is a trap: the ship itself might not even exist. If it does, it is doomed. It is not possible to get to it before the Klingons destroy it.
• Overwhelming force: there are so many Klingon ships that escape is impossible.

You are going to try to rescue that ship, you are going to fail, and you are going to get your entire crew killed in the process.
That was the scenario Kirk refused to believe in. He would have gladly taken the "I die and everybody else escapes" option if it had existed.

 

[Mr Silver]

Its interesting about Prime Kirk's method, it reflects his personality (not giving up, or as McCoy puts it "Turns death into a fighting chance to live") he felt the test was unfair, therefore he reprogrammed the simulator so the possibility "to beat the no win scenario" applied, not how JJ's Kirk simply cheated by making the Klingons simple to beat and having the ship invulnerable to their weapons fire

I'm quite curious about how the likes of,

Jean-Luc Picard
Benjamin Sisko
Kathryn Janeway
William Riker

would have gone about the Kobayashi Maru

 

[DonIago]

...well, we don't actually know exactly how PrimeKirk beat the scenario.

 

[Captrek]

Childish tantrum? That sounds a less like what happened in the film and a lot for like your reaction to it.

I have limited my comments to discussion of the film as it exists and ideas for what might have been done to improve it. I have refrained from making personal attacks against other posters and reiterate my request that others do the same.

Played it straight? He was making a fucking joke at the expense of the academy.

A childish and unfunny joke. The administrators, instructors, and other cadets have better things to do with their time than being used for this childish joke.

I'm sorry it doesn't mesh with your Wrath of Khan fantasies

As I have repeatedly articulated, it has nothing to do with my Wrath of Khan fantasies and everything to do with honoring the characters and telling an intelligent story that makes sense.

I can buy that this Kirk isn’t the same Kirk as Kirk Prime. I can even buy that, prior to entering the Academy, this Kirk doesn’t give a shit about anybody but himself. I cannot buy that, at this point in his career, the soon-to-be-Captain Kirk is still this immature little brat.

but please get over it.

You get over it. I’m talking about the movie as it is and as it could have been. If the conversation upsets you, then don’t participate in it. I’m interested in what you think of the movie as it exists. I’m interested in what you think of the movie as it could have been. I’m not interested in what you think of me.

They were doing the for the third time. Everyone knew what was gonna happen, there was nothing for anyone else to learn.

Then why was the Academy letting Kirk waste simulator room time? Their staff has nothing better to do? Their cadets have nothing better to do?

Uhura and McCoy didn't even want to be there - they were humouring him.

Great. They’re being good friends to him, sacrificing their time to indulge him, and he treats them with contempt.

What about the other participating cadets? What about the staff?

The whole point of the KM in STXI was to show that Kirk didn't yet understand his father's sacrifice, that he refuses surrender in the face of impossible odds, that he's contemptuous of authority that he finds a way to win in a situation no one else can, by any means.

Other than the background of his father’s sacrifice, we knew all that 27 years ago. What original contributions has the new film made to the KM story?

Any "serious psychological testing" sould have been the first time round, a la Saavik in Wrath of Khan.

If that’s true, then there’s no reason for anybody else to do what they do except that the screenplay requires them to do so in order to facilitate Kirk’s prank.