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Would you have stopped watching VOY if...

...if Janeway had been seen semi-naked in bed with her lover?

  • Janeway should not be having sex! I would've been so angry and I'd have stopped watching!

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I don't find Janeway attractive so I would've been so grossed out I'd have stopped watching!

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Are you kidding me? I'd love to have seen her in such a scene !!!

    Votes: 6 10.5%
  • I don't care for Janeway romances/sex/nudity, but I wouldn't have stopped watching because of that

    Votes: 5 8.8%
  • Eh, what's the big deal? People have sex. Starship captains have sex. Women over 40 have sex. Why wo

    Votes: 46 80.7%

  • Total voters
    57
Seriously, are there any women writing for Trek?
Is that a serious question? :cardie:

Unless you mean "are there any women writing for canon Trek right now" (in which case the answer would be no, since neither Roberto Orci, Alex Kurzman nor Damon Lindelof are women), the answer is yes.

(info from Memory Alpha)

D.C. Fontana (+script editor)
Jean Lisette Aroeste
Margaret Arman
Joyce Muskat
Judy Burns
Melinda M. Snodgrass
Jacqueline Zambrano
Sally Caves
Susan Sackett
Jeri Taylor (+ producer)
Sara Charno
Hilary J. Bader
Katharyn Powers
Jill Sherman Donner
Lisa Rich
Jeanne Carrigan-Fauci
Nell McCue Crawford
Cindy Marcus
Lisa Klink
Barbara Lee
Jenifer A. Lee
Jane Espenson
Jessica Scott
Maria Jaqemetton
Phyllis Strong (+ story editor)
Judith Reeves-Stevens (+ co-producer)
... could be more, I wasn't sure about the gender of some of the names

Trek literature:
Diane Duane
Vonda McIntyre
S.D. Perry
Una McCormack
Heather Jarman
Margaret Wander Bonnano
Christie Golden
Kirsten Beyer
Josepha Sherman
Susan Shwartz
Britta Dennison
Terri Osborne
Lois Tilton
Ilsa J. Bick
Diane Carey
Olivia Woods
Susan Wright
Kim Sheard
Charlotte Douglas
Jeanne M. Dillard
Susan Kearney
Janet Kagan
Julia Ecklar
Sarah Shaw
Melissa Scott
Pamela Sargent
Kristine Kathryn Rusch
Jill Sherwin
Margaret Clark (editor)

and many more, this has taken too much time already...

(Do I get major geek points for this? ;) )
 
Exactly.

Demographics are based on who the advertisers think will have the most purchasing power, and who they think they can influence to use that purchasing power. They believe they can influence adolence boys the most. I think that the demographic they wanted was the teenage boy, I also think the demographic that all of Trek got was more female than anyone wanted to believe. They believed women didn't read science fiction and didn't watch science fiction shows because science fiction was like math and just too hard.

Brit

Really?

From my experence "immature" is the word I hear most women using in regards to sci-fi. I mostly hear that sci-fi isn't too hard for them to figure out but rather not complex enough for women. I feel that sci-fi such as "Batman Begins" or maybe nuBSG are such modern hits is because the public is discovering that sci-fi can be serious and complex. Seriously, are there any women writing for Trek? How many women sci-fi writers are there compared to men? When they sit down at the soapbox to write stories, who's there to represent the female demographic or POV? The demographic is how it is because not enough women are taking an active role in creating sci-fi. I think for years the public viewed that Star Wars and sci-fi w/ more action, aliens and robots were the sci-fi standard. So I think many women tuned out sci-fi. I think studios are now gearing shows for both. So I think Paramount knew Voyager had a big female audience, they added Seven to get your boyfriend get back into Trek too. Thus grabbing their demographic and adding you the new female demographic too. Still, many are expecting a mostly male staff to understand the needs of it's female audience. The majority of the demographic isn't going to truly consider much of the female audience until women start taking a more active role in the creation and writing of it. They went after the male audience demographic again because it's what they understand.

And Women cannot take more part in the creation of Science Fiction until they are allowed to. The major publishing world is of the opinion that women don’t read science fiction so they don’t publish the kinds of science fiction that women would read, the kinds of science fiction that women would not find immature. This is why female science fiction and science fiction romance writers and readers are banding together, why they are creating blogs like “Alien Romance” with Jacqueline Lichtenberg (and if you don’t know who she is you better study your Trek history) the “Galaxy Express”, and the latest “SFR Brigade.” And finally if women were not interested in reading and writing Science Fiction and Star Trek fiction in particular then why is about 90% of all fan fiction written and read by women.

Guys you didn’t show or print what we wanted to see or read, so we did it ourselves, lots of us. Women like Jacqueline Lichtenberg, Linnea Sinclair, Susan Grant, and Ann Aguirre, women who do write Science Fiction. You stated the case as clearly as anyone could and was blind to the answer, ask it again.


Just why are there so few Science Fiction books written by women? Just why did the early female writers have first names that could be male like Leigh Beckett or like C. L . Moore, use only their initials.

You know why your women friends find Science Fiction immature, well it’s because it’s primarily written for 15 year old boys, of course they are going to find it immature. Women went to “Avatar” in the millions and loved it, women love Star Trek too, the audience is there and it is a huge one.

They went after the male audience demographic again because it's what they understand.
And if true (and yes I do think it is true), that is the discrimination in a nutshell. Knowing it had a female audience and then catering to the male is the best description of gender bias that I know.

Brit
How exactly would you expect an entire male writing & production staff to anticipate the needs of it's female audience? 90% of women reading fan fics has what to do with TV? If the feedback they're getting from the female demographic while the show is on is mostly positive, why would they suspect any displeasure? Voyager made all it's women department heads, all except Kes. Kate Mulgrew got her way in nearly everything she asked for, sometimes to the detriment of her other cast members. Beltran didn't, Philips didn't. What bias?
 
Yes exactly, not one.
And that is relevant to VOY and TV Trek in general because...?
:lol:

Everything we've been talking about all post long.
What, if either Orci or Kurtzman were a woman, that would make all the difference to the decisions of the writing staff of VOY, a show that was made a decade earlier?
Or... what was it - if neither Orci or Kurtzman are women, that proves that women aren't interested in Trek or SciFi in general? :vulcan:

Ooo-kay.... :wtf:


Sweet, just cut off from the quote the entire part of my post that proves that you're monumentally wrong. All those women who wrote or are still writing for Trek must be an anomaly, eh?


Oh, and may try to be a little more economical with your :lol:s... It makes you look like one of those people who always laugh for no reason.
 
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Sweet, just cut off from the quote the entire part of my post that proves that you're monumentally wrong.
Then why all the complaining?

This whole post is a nitpick over the fact that one thing didn't go someones way that nobody even knew was an issue and now the writers are being called bias and discriminating. Give me a break.
 
You know what would be great?

It would be awesome if someone if crazy mad photoshopping skills could create a picture where we could see Janeway semi-naked in bed with her lover so we could really get an accurate idea.

That's really the only way to know if I'd stop watching after that.

I need a visual here, people.
 
Is this what Voyager's been reduced too?

Is it nothing about but seeing Janeway getting sexual? :lol:
 
Is this what Voyager's been reduced too?

Is it nothing about but seeing Janeway getting sexual? :lol:
Oh come on exodus, aren't you the one who has been explaining (on 2 threads, no less) how important it is for some women to take their clothes off on screen and for others not to, and the tremendous role it plays for a TV show's ratings? :whistle:
 
Is this what Voyager's been reduced too?

Is it nothing about but seeing Janeway getting sexual? :lol:
Oh come on exodus, aren't you the one who has been explaining (on 2 threads, no less) how important it is for some women to take their clothes off on screen and for others not to, and the tremendous role it plays for a TV show's ratings? :whistle:
Seriously, is that all you think I've been talking about this whole time?


For like the 3rd or 4th time...
Importance in showing nudity, no.
Understanding a shows demographic and what a majority of that demographic is in tune too, yes.
 
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Is this what Voyager's been reduced too?

Is it nothing about but seeing Janeway getting sexual? :lol:


worthlesswithoutpix.gif
 
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No, I was under the impression that we're all different and what might be ok for you might not be ok for others.
And what might not be okay for some may be the best thing in the world for others.

If you want to make a bland, middle-of-the-road show to please everyone then you're not going to succeed, partly because there's a section of the audience that are not pleased by shows that are too afraid to take even a small risk.

IYou can easily tell that Kate is a very artsy (in the bohemian sense) kind of person with an odd dichotomy of traditional Irish Catholic views.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that.
I am. I'm confronted by the Irish Catholic mindset on a daily basis and I think there's something very worrying about it. It is a repressive mindset that puts people's health and lives in danger. Most of the schools here are officially run by the Catholic church, so I had to sit through 2 hours of religious education each week and received absolutely no sex education. I learned how to use a condom by reading instructions on the internet. I officially gave up Catholicism when I was 13, but it took another 7 years to get past the sexual repression they programmed into me.

I'm not sure what my rant has to do with Voyager, I'm just feeling a tad resentful. :alienblush:

Kirk is in no way a man whore and is simply cool if he sleeps with half of the galaxy.
Kirk's not really a man-whore, he only slept with four women in three years. One of those was his Native American wife, one of them was practically rape because he was drugged by magic tears, one of them was as part of a ruse to retake control of the ship, and the other one was... with a prostitute. But he hadn't gotten any in almost two years, what would you have done in his place?!

DevilEyes said:
Unless you mean "are there any women writing for canon Trek right now" (in which case the answer would be no,
Yes exactly, not one.
In fairness, there's very few female screen-writers willing to write the sort of popcorn action movies that Trek XI aspired to be, they're usually above such things. :shifty:
 
Funnily enough, the new Trek movie attracted a lot of young female viewers.

I'm thinking that like 90% of them are Spirk shippers, though. :)
 
IYou can easily tell that Kate is a very artsy (in the bohemian sense) kind of person with an odd dichotomy of traditional Irish Catholic views.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that.
I am. I'm confronted by the Irish Catholic mindset on a daily basis and I think there's something very worrying about it. It is a repressive mindset that puts people's health and lives in danger. Most of the schools here are officially run by the Catholic church, so I had to sit through 2 hours of religious education each week and received absolutely no sex education. I learned how to use a condom by reading instructions on the internet. I officially gave up Catholicism when I was 13, but it took another 7 years to get past the sexual repression they programmed into me.

I'm not sure what my rant has to do with Voyager, I'm just feeling a tad resentful. :alienblush:

Well, when I say Irish Catholic, what I mean is American Irish Catholic. Kate's liberal with views that bend conservative in the areas of hot topics like abortion. She, however, does advocate sex education, for example. Hence 'odd dichotomy'. ;)
 
And what might not be okay for some may be the best thing in the world for others.

If you want to make a bland, middle-of-the-road show to please everyone then you're not going to succeed, partly because there's a section of the audience that are not pleased by shows that are too afraid to take even a small risk.

In fairness, there's very few female screen-writers willing to write the sort of popcorn action movies that Trek XI aspired to be, they're usually above such things. :shifty:
Ok, but I covered all this already.
 
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