How far did Scotty beam them?

[Pauln6]

A Federation base would have access to Federation transponder codes which make it easier to track its own vessels beyond standard sensor range, although I'm not clear how this works or how it would help you beam on board since you couldn't scan the inside of the ship for a safe zone, which is tantamount to suicide. I can see it working better if a ship is at sub-light and two pads are linked to double the range. It is also possible to obtain the codes of other ships through espionage or luck (happened in DS9) and if all you are beaming is an explosive you don't really need to be all that accurate.

Generally, I don't think transporting over a long distance would work on ships at warp without possessing the other ship's transponder code unless you are close enough to scan and be scanned, in which case you run into problems with shields. At sub-light it is less of a problem but you still need to be aware of the ship's position. A cloaked ship could probably use this as a valid tactic since its shields are down while cloaked and if the transporter has a greater range than your enemies weapons, beaming across a bomb is a great opener to a fight.

 

[Devon]

This has some implications for the Star Trek universe. Who needs ships to get around the solar system when you can just beam people everywhere?

As we know from previous Trek, there are away missions that require a shuttlecraft because the transporter can't beam through certain conditions. If they relied entirely on transportation like that then you'd be putting a lot more people in danger. What if some certain phenomenon crops up within transporter range and prevents beaming? It may take months before someone can even be rescued.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

there is no reason why militaristic races wouldn't send suicide transportees or inanimate objects like simple chemical bombs or an animatter fuel cell whose magnetic interlocks are designed to shut down after a ten second countdown. Removing the distance limitation opens a can of worms that the early writers knew should be kept closed.

Considering the Dominion could have done the same thing and they didn't would seem to invalidate that worry.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Heck, if Star Trek didn't forget all it's technology the battle at Wolf 359 would have ended in Starfleet Genesis-bombing the Borg ship into the galaxy's first square planet.

 

[Timo]

Considering the Dominion could have done the same thing and they didn't would seem to invalidate that worry.

We haven't seen the Dominion use interstellar teleportation technology at any point. The only one who seemed to do so was Dukat, in "Covenant" - but whether he really did use it is debatable. A much simpler assumption would be that Dukat (or his followers) beamed Kira to a nearby ship and flew that ship to Empok Nor, then beamed Kira out. Prisoner transport becomes so much easier when the prisoner is just a phased matter stream...

The thing in "Covenant" is that at least two of our heroes are buying into the interstellar transport trick.

Sisko: "Their transporters operate over longer distances than ours. What's their maximum range?"
Worf: "If the homing transponder was in place, up to three light years."

By that point of the story, Starfleet would no doubt have had access to a number of captured Dominion transporters. We know that at least the one used in "Behind the Lines" had working ones. So Worf might not be speaking completely out of his ass here.

Yet three lightyears is awfully short for a plausible distance between DS9 and Empok Nor. The story logic more or less requires there to be an intermediate stage in Kira's journey, one involving a ship. Or then it requires our heroes to be mistaken about the range of the Dominion transporter - erring on the side of caution by several lightyears!

But since we never see Dominion interstellar transport, perhaps we're best off assuming that this homing transponder is absolutely vital to the range boost, and that it only works one way: a transporter device can beam up a distant target marked with a transponder, but cannot beam down anything to a distant point a) unless that point is marked with a transponder or b) under any conditions.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Pauln6]

Considering the Dominion could have done the same thing and they didn't would seem to invalidate that worry.

We haven't seen the Dominion use interstellar teleportation technology at any point. The only one who seemed to do so was Dukat, in "Covenant" - but whether he really did use it is debatable. A much simpler assumption would be that Dukat (or his followers) beamed Kira to a nearby ship and flew that ship to Empok Nor, then beamed Kira out. Prisoner transport becomes so much easier when the prisoner is just a phased matter stream...

The thing in "Covenant" is that at least two of our heroes are buying into the interstellar transport trick.

Sisko: "Their transporters operate over longer distances than ours. What's their maximum range?"
Worf: "If the homing transponder was in place, up to three light years."

By that point of the story, Starfleet would no doubt have had access to a number of captured Dominion transporters. We know that at least the one used in "Behind the Lines" had working ones. So Worf might not be speaking completely out of his ass here.

Yet three lightyears is awfully short for a plausible distance between DS9 and Empok Nor. The story logic more or less requires there to be an intermediate stage in Kira's journey, one involving a ship. Or then it requires our heroes to be mistaken about the range of the Dominion transporter - erring on the side of caution by several lightyears!

But since we never see Dominion interstellar transport, perhaps we're best off assuming that this homing transponder is absolutely vital to the range boost, and that it only works one way: a transporter device can beam up a distant target marked with a transponder, but cannot beam down anything to a distant point a) unless that point is marked with a transponder or b) under any conditions.

Timo Saloniemi

A very sensible compromise, although personally, I don't think that ANY transporter should work unless the target and target locations have transponders in place. It makes espionage and captive plots far more interesting and prevents anybody from just beaming in wherever and whenever they like. It would also explain the importance of transporter pads at both ends of a journey and plugs a big gap in transporter logic.

 

[JarodRussell]

A very sensible compromise, although personally, I don't think that ANY transporter should work unless the target and target locations have transponders in place. It makes espionage and captive plots far more interesting and prevents anybody from just beaming in wherever and whenever they like. It would also explain the importance of transporter pads at both ends of a journey and plugs a big gap in transporter logic.

Well that's what shields were for. But in Trek 2009 they didn't have any problems beaming through the Narada's or Enterprise's shields.

Heck, if Star Trek didn't forget all it's technology the battle at Wolf 359 would have ended in Starfleet Genesis-bombing the Borg ship into the galaxy's first square planet.

In-universe, the Genesis project was completely destroyed when the Reliant blew up. They had their data stored in computers aboard Regula I, they never gave it to Starfleet. And there was only one Genesis torpedo.

I fully expect Transwarp Beaming to be forgotten in the next movie, and I expect the writers to move the ship at the speed of plot for the duration, too.

I think two lines we can expect in the next movie are: "We're out of transporter range." and "We're not going to make it in time."

 

[Dusty Ayres]

Which is why I might imagine Spock Prime keeping details of the technique secret from these 23rd century people. He would have some vested interest in turning the Federation into a more potent fighting force, but not all that much: he wouldn't want to use the UFP to exact revenge on anybody (Nero's already dead, Spock doesn't hate Romulans), and he doesn't know about any super-enemies that would require the UFP to be stronger than it was in his youth. And giving the Feds an anti-Borg weapon would only encourage them to challenge the Borg.

Really, as far as we know, only Kirk and Scotty know about the trick, and only Scotty might have understood anything about it, and even then Spock Prime might have misled him somehow, or sabotaged something to prevent the trick from working a second time.

Even if Starfleet realized Spock was keeping secrets from them, what could they do? You can't torture secrets out of Vulcans - "Errand of Mercy" proved that much already. A fellow Vulcan might do a mind-meld, but not under the current circumstances.

Timo Saloniemi

You know, I wonder if Spock Prime was secretly an agent of the race that employs Gary Seven (The Aegis), and this little reveal by him was just a way to help as seen in the "Assignment Earth' episode-also, I wonder if the transwarp beaming tech is actually Aegis tech?

 

[Pauln6]

A very sensible compromise, although personally, I don't think that ANY transporter should work unless the target and target locations have transponders in place. It makes espionage and captive plots far more interesting and prevents anybody from just beaming in wherever and whenever they like. It would also explain the importance of transporter pads at both ends of a journey and plugs a big gap in transporter logic.

Well that's what shields were for. But in Trek 2009 they didn't have any problems beaming through the Narada's or Enterprise's shields.

If it's a power consumption issue it's never been specified as such but I've offered wondered why ships don't keep shields up all the time unless they need to use transporters. Wrath of Khan would certainly have ended differently.

 

[I-Am-Zim]

You know, I wonder if Spock Prime was secretly an agent of the race that employs Gary Seven (The Aegis), and this little reveal by him was just a way to help as seen in the "Assignment Earth' episode-also, I wonder if the transwarp beaming tech is actually Aegis tech?

Wow. That's thinking outside the box! That never occurred to me, but I can see it. Gary Seven transported from interstellar distances to Earth. It's possible that sometime in the other universe, Spock was able to procure that technology and gave it to NuScotty just for the purpose of getting him and NuKirk onto the Abramsprise to save the day. The process may not be repeatable. But NuScotty did mention that he already knew about the transwarp beaming theory. So that may not work. Anyway, good thinking.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I think only way to reconcile transwarp beaming is to say that both nuScotty and Scotty Prime were messing with it in the late 2250's, but neither was successful. Fast forward 80 years and resurrected Scotty, with the aid of TNG-era computing power, figures it out some time post-Nemesis. Spock memorizes the formula (software patch) required to make it work, and introduces it to nuScotty in the alternate past ("It never occurred to me to think of space as the thing that was moving")
It could even be that Scotty finally figured it out after getting a look at those Dominion long-range transporters.