5x013 The Big Bang (Grading/Discussion) SPOILERS!!

[Silent_Bob]

The doctor really should have regenerated when that dalek shot him like that previous time a dalek shot him in "Journey's End"

Nah, it was barely half-power. Just toasted him up a bit.

Yeah I figured someone would say that

"Oh it was at half strength so it didn't cause him to regenerate"

Last time the Doctor got shot it took a short time for his regeneration to begin, long enough to get dragged aboard the Tardis.
Presumably he would have started to regenerate had he not dragged himself into the Pandorica, which as established earlier in the episode forcibly prevents you from dying.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

I thought it was a bit odd though how her "memories" could bring the Doctor back into existence. Someone will have to explain that to me. Cause if the Doctor wasn't around, Earth would have been destroyed a dozen times over without his help, heh, so technically no one should have been alive cause the Daleks or something would have taken over the Earth by now without the Doctor.

That's not how drama works. You don't spend time explaining why things that could potentially have happened have not happened. Earth would have been destroyed? Well, no, it wasn't destroyed. The reasons are not relevant to the plot.

None of my criticisms have been met with refutations

You didn't like it. What's there to refute?

 

[Gov Kodos]

That was a very fun episode, and River & Amy's disposal of the Fez was pure awesome. As for the big bad, I am happy that it is a set up for the next series. Who would want to leave the Doctor imprisoned forever in utter nothingness- no time, no space, no reality- I am guessing Omega wanting to trap the Doctor just as he has been trapped. Something I noticed was the way the music was playing during River's last conversation with the Doctor, like a record playing backwards. Could it be a hint?

 

[Plan 9]

Rory's a wet fish. Auton Rory was actually good, and a lot more three-dimensional than the original, so it's kind of annoying that he seems to have been rebooted back to that original!

Well, except for the whole he-clearly-remembers-everything bit that was made abundantly clear at the end when he said something to the effect of "I was plastic." And, frankly, we have no idea if that's Human Rory or Auton Rory. It's probably going to depend on what Amy considered him at the time of the Big Bang 2.

Either way he'll have over 2,000 years of memories, experience, and wisdom to rely on. (As a side note, I love how that means that Rory may be even more wise than the Doctor... a trait he kinda had before he met him, too.) Worse case scenario is that he doesn't have a built in gun anymore. Darn. Doctor Who without a gun-toting companion? I can't even conceive of such an idea...

 

[Captain Pike]

I voted 'good'. Quite a nice season ender. Better than any of Ruskie's (there really wasn't anything I hated or even disliked), but there is still room for improvement. I really liked how it tied everything together from throughout the season.

And I liked the fez

 

[Allyn Gibson]

How is this a universe in which the Doctor doesn't exist?

Because both the Doctor and River said the rebooted universe would be a universe in which the Doctor never existed.

It seemed to me that the Doctor did not exist once he entered the crack. Then, once Amy remembered him, his life and time stream reentered the "rebooted" universe. And, thus, becoming part of it.

Yes, he entered the new universe. But his past didn't happen to the new universe, because he didn't exist, until Amy brought him across, until that moment. "The End is the Beginning" the first trailers said, and that's literally what we have -- at the end of the series is the beginning of the Doctor's new life. Smith is the eleventh Doctor -- and the first.

 

[Gov Kodos]

How is this a universe in which the Doctor doesn't exist?

Because both the Doctor and River said the rebooted universe would be a universe in which the Doctor never existed.

It seemed to me that the Doctor did not exist once he entered the crack. Then, once Amy remembered him, his life and time stream reentered the "rebooted" universe. And, thus, becoming part of it.

Yes, he entered the new universe. But his past didn't happen to the new universe, because he didn't exist, until Amy brought him across, until that moment. "The End is the Beginning" the first trailers said, and that's literally what we have -- at the end of the series is the beginning of the Doctor's new life. Smith is the eleventh Doctor -- and the first.

Which makes me wonder if this is how they will get around the regeneration limit. Being the 'first' Doctor in this time stream, does he now have 12 regeneration left?

Incidentally, about River, do you suppose from here we find out that she is perhaps an agent of the Silence when the Doctor meets her later. By the way, she was introduced in 'Silence in the Library'.

 

[David cgc]

Yes, he entered the new universe. But his past didn't happen to the new universe, because he didn't exist, until Amy brought him across, until that moment. "The End is the Beginning" the first trailers said, and that's literally what we have -- at the end of the series is the beginning of the Doctor's new life. Smith is the eleventh Doctor -- and the first.

Then how did someone know his phone number to call for help at the end? How did Rory remember he was the stripper at the stag party? How did River's journal fill back up? How are Torchwood and the Sarah Jane Adventures going to keep on going?

The only difference between the new universe and the old one once Amy brought the Doctor back is that everything that was eaten by the crack was no longer eaten by the crack. Or, rather, was uneaten in the same way. So rather than the crack, say, unhappening Amy's parents but Amy herself still existing despite that, now the crack unhappened, but the fish people still invaded Venice, and the Doctor still defeated the Angels at the Byzantium.

The Doctor, before Amy brought him back, was in the same sort of historical limbo the Time Lords have been in for the whole revived series. Either never heard of, or a legend, or dead if you're advanced enough to notice, but their effects on reality lingered on. And now the crack adventures are the same way. Everything's back to normal. Including the giant Cyberman and the 26 planets. So much for the idea that the cracks were going to clean up Doctor Who continuity.

 

[John Clark]

When the Doctor is pulled from the ether by Amy's memories, River's book is once again filled with her scribblings of the Doctor.

Just missed that bit (Had to answer the door ) so I was thinking the diary was more of an indication about who Amelia would be in the future and that the Doctor hadn't picked up on it yet.

Overall, I thought it was a good episode. I thought Rory was ok in general throughout the series until this episode. Now I think he's great.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Was that Liz Ten that the Doctor was on the phone with at the end of the episode talking about the escapee and the "orient express" in space do ya think? He called her "mum" and we know historical figures who've worked with the Doctor in the past have access to the Tardis's "phone number" (I so love that for some reason). I'd love for Liz Ten to return she was fantastic and loved seeing her in the teaser for "The Pandorica Opens".

 

[EyalM]

I voted good.
I liked the characters' interactions and the humor, but some nitpicking made me unable to give it an excellent.

First, the "Bill and Ted" time travel was kind of a cheat, from a dramatic standpoint (and also a rip off of "Curse of Fatal Death ). The doctor didn't escape the Pandorica with witt or cunning, he just used a "get out of jail" card, which is dramatically unsatisfying. I can look past it here since it's still feel like a fresh plot device, but I hope we don't see it again for a long time.
Second, the bad guy. While the prospect of a cross-series villain\mystery is appealing, I was disappointed we didn't even get a clue as to who was behind all this and why.
Third, the remembering the Doctor back to existence bit left me cold. It was too fantastic and yet way too predictable which also spoiled the re-wind sequences for me (which is think were brilliantly acted).
Also, Amy allegedly could bring back "erased" things because her mind was altered due to living next to the crack for all those years. But the Amy at the end never had a crack in her wall, so how come she could wish the Doctor back?

 

[The Doctor]

Yes, he entered the new universe. But his past didn't happen to the new universe, because he didn't exist, until Amy brought him across, until that moment. "The End is the Beginning" the first trailers said, and that's literally what we have -- at the end of the series is the beginning of the Doctor's new life. Smith is the eleventh Doctor -- and the first.

Then how did someone know his phone number to call for help at the end? How did Rory remember he was the stripper at the stag party? How did River's journal fill back up? How are Torchwood and the Sarah Jane Adventures going to keep on going?

The only difference between the new universe and the old one once Amy brought the Doctor back is that everything that was eaten by the crack was no longer eaten by the crack. Or, rather, was uneaten in the same way. So rather than the crack, say, unhappening Amy's parents but Amy herself still existing despite that, now the crack unhappened, but the fish people still invaded Venice, and the Doctor still defeated the Angels at the Byzantium.

The Doctor, before Amy brought him back, was in the same sort of historical limbo the Time Lords have been in for the whole revived series. Either never heard of, or a legend, or dead if you're advanced enough to notice, but their effects on reality lingered on. And now the crack adventures are the same way. Everything's back to normal. Including the giant Cyberman and the 26 planets. So much for the idea that the cracks were going to clean up Doctor Who continuity.

This.

There was no reboot, the cracks have been sealed and because of their wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey-ness, whatever the cracks effected have been... un-effected.

Seems perfectly clear to me. Also, Rory is clearly not an Auton anymore. I was plastic isn't I am plastic.

In any case, the episode was brilliant. Seeing the TARDIS materialize at the wedding brought a tear to my sentimental eye, and that's the first time that Doctor Who has done that. And besides, anything that weakens the frankly stupid mcguffin in 'Father's Day' is fine with me. It's always struck me as a shame that such a beautiful sentimental episode was ruined by shitty CGI dragons.

It's amazing to me that this series of Doctor Who, which has been so different in tone to the RTD years, has still drawn me in and given the five-year-old child within such a thrill. When RTD and Tennant bade their farewells, I was worried that the silly fun would be lost. It hasn't and somehow Moffat has managed to make the silly smarter without ruining the fun. Not a bad job, that.

Bring on the Christmas Special!

 

[SeerSGB]

Told my wife I'll never be able to go to another wedding and listen to someone say "something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue" again without cracking up. That had to be the best moment in probably the last 5 years, if not "the" best, certainly in the top 3.

 

[Cyke101]

What board have you been visiting? I think most of us are on your side

If I'm not mistaken, the earliest impressions of Rory were that he was a whiny, expendable git.

That might have changed over time and I didn't read all of the threads that were hundreds of posts long in the middle of the season, but I don't recall the earliest impressions of him being very positive.

Rory's a wet fish. Auton Rory was actually good, and a lot more three-dimensional than the original, so it's kind of annoying that he seems to have been rebooted back to that original!

He may be human again, but I think his memories are intact. When the Doctor comes to the wedding banquet, I *think* Rory said that he was plastic. He also didn't hesitate at all to ditch his banquet to rejoin the team once the Doctor received the call.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

I still need to rewatch this but I've been thinking about it a little. I don't think it entirely succeeded, in part because of some of the "cheats", and partly because Amy is so teflon, but I like the attempt to make it about big ideas. Other than the Dalek the whole episode only involves the main characters, that's pretty brave for a finale. I wish all the parts gelled just a bit more but I do appreciate the attempt.

 

[captcalhoun]

god, some of you seem so thick wit all your questions.

everything happened. everything in this season and the previous 30 odd. the Doctor was totally unsurprised to be back, he knew Amy could make him real again and he did.

and quit bitching about the bill and ted bit. it was funny and it moved the plot along very quickly with minimum guff. it swiftly resolved the cliffhanger and we moved on, just like in the old serials where seemingly inescapable situations were escaped in minutes.

 

[DimesDan]

god, some of you seem so thick wit all your questions.

everything happened. everything in this season and the previous 30 odd. the Doctor was totally unsurprised to be back, he knew Amy could make him real again and he did.

and quit bitching about the bill and ted bit. it was funny and it moved the plot along very quickly with minimum guff. it swiftly resolved the cliffhanger and we moved on, just like in the old serials where seemingly inescapable situations were escaped in minutes.

How very true.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

What's with all the prickliness lately?

 

[N-121973]

I liked the episode and I liked the idea that the arc concerning silence begun in 11th Hour continuing. After watching it however, an idea struck me. Had David Tennant decided to continue playing the Doctor for Stephen Moffat's first season with The Big Bang being his final episode, I would have liked it if the regeneration into his successor had taken place off screen. When Amy 'summons' the Doctor back into reality during the wedding reception and the TARDIS materializes, and the door opens, instead of David Tennant, its his successor who opens it and for the duration of the Xmas Special and for that matter next season the viewer's are left wondering whether or not this is the 11th Doctor or, well who knows who else it could be. Naturally the episodes should be seeded with little things here and there to cast doubts as to the Doctor's identity.

 

[Awesome Possum]

I loved it. I would have liked to find out what the Silence was, but that's for next season according to Moffat (along with who River really is). But more than anything else, Rory and the Doctor really made this episode and I'm glad that it looks like he'll be a full time companion next season.

Also I'm buying a fez, fezzes are cool.