5x013 The Big Bang (Grading/Discussion) SPOILERS!!

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

I wonder if the doctor really was expecting to be saved, or if it was a bit of a surprise in the end.

There was a sense that he gave up; he decided to stop traveling back along his own personal timeline, and he evinces surprise that Amy remembered enough of him to pull him back across into the new timeline.

This is going to be so cool, a universe where the Doctor didn't exist.

How is this a universe in which the Doctor doesn't exist?

When the Doctor is pulled from the ether by Amy's memories, River's book is once again filled with her scribblings of the Doctor.

Rory also mutters, "How could we have forgotten the Doctor?"

And someone still has the Doctor's time-digits since he gets a call (to action) from elsewhere at the end of the episode.

It seemed to me that the Doctor did not exist once he entered the crack. Then, once Amy remembered him, his life and time stream reentered the "rebooted" universe. And, thus, becoming part of it.

 

[auntiehill]

I really, really enjoyed this episode. I think it was a great "bookend" for the season---11th Hour and Big Bang. I thought it worked wonderfully. I reasoned the not-regenerating thing as being due to the Dalek being not yet at full strength, so the Doctor wasn't exactly dying. It was just used as a way to distract the others so that he could get away.

Anyway, I thought this episode was sweet and charming, and had all the fun "timey-wimey" stuff that I just LOVE about Doctor Who. It gets a definite "Who Da Man?" from me.



....And now I'm all bummed out about having to wait until Christmas to see another episode.

 

[Samurai8472]

The doctor really should have regenerated when that dalek shot him like that previous time a dalek shot him in "Journey's End"

Nah, it was barely half-power. Just toasted him up a bit.

Yeah I figured someone would say that

"Oh it was at half strength so it didn't cause him to regenerate"

 

[SG-17]

Did River remember the Doctor because she was a more complicated spacetime event than Amy? Or was it because the Doctor didn't have anything to do with River's childhood?

There's something...unusual about River. Wouldn't be surprised if she was revealed to be a Time Lady

I've been thinking that too. Maybe Romana?

 

[Cyke101]

I liked Rory from the start (which seems to run against popular opinion here)

What board have you been visiting? I think most of us are on your side

 

[thestrangequark]

I have to say, apart for nice character moments, this was a complete waste of time.

The shit started when the Doctor pulled a Bill and Ted to get out of the Pandorica.

And that's one of the things I loved most about it. The self-consistency theory of time-travel WINS!

I thought it was wonderful. Amy in the Pandorica at the beginning was just fabulous, the character development was beautifully done, the use of time travel was clever and funny, the acting was great all-around, the fact that I realized the "Something old, something new..." just a few moments before the characters did (for some reason, I really enjoy being manipulated by writers, and the knowledge that I am coming to the realizations they want me to come to exactly when they want me to do it, why I love Ted Chiang's work so much), the fact that there's still a bit of mystery to keep us speculating until next series, going back to the scene in the Angels episode, which at the time had me completely confused was inspired -- just, everything. Wonderful.

 

[Brent]

Well, I loved this, highest rating I can give it.

Didn't see Amy being the box at first, that was a nice twist to open the ep with.

I love how everything, every episode this season, fits into the overall arc. The doctor travels backwards in his own time stream, and that is what accounted for the odd appearances of the Doctor. Very neat, and it is nice to see they had a plan for the series from the get-go.

I thought it was a bit odd though how her "memories" could bring the Doctor back into existence. Someone will have to explain that to me. Cause if the Doctor wasn't around, Earth would have been destroyed a dozen times over without his help, heh, so technically no one should have been alive cause the Daleks or something would have taken over the Earth by now without the Doctor. Then "thinking" him into existence was weird. Shed some light on all this someone?

 

[Samurai8472]

Can't believe it's the end of Matt Smith's first season/series. All we'll have to tide us over till next April is set reports of the Christmas special which starts filming July 12.

Well...won't we also have the Christmas special on Christmas?

Oh and I forgot about the TWO proms we'll be getting. One hosted by Smith and Karen.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

I thought it was a bit odd though how her "memories" could bring the Doctor back into existence. Someone will have to explain that to me. Cause if the Doctor wasn't around, Earth would have been destroyed a dozen times over without his help, heh, so technically no one should have been alive cause the Daleks or something would have taken over the Earth by now without the Doctor. Then "thinking" him into existence was weird. Shed some light on all this someone?

Weren't the Daleks and all those things never there?

 

[DAK]

Did River remember the Doctor because she was a more complicated spacetime event than Amy? Or was it because the Doctor didn't have anything to do with River's childhood?

There's something...unusual about River. Wouldn't be surprised if she was revealed to be a Time Lady

I've been thinking that too. Maybe Romana?

I thought of her too. Her last words to him ring kind of ominous though - everything changes, and why is she very sorry? Can't wait to find out!

I liked Rory from the start (which seems to run against popular opinion here)

What board have you been visiting? I think most of us are on your side

Yeah, I like Rory. I don't see much Rory hate around here.

Can't believe it's the end of Matt Smith's first season/series. All we'll have to tide us over till next April is set reports of the Christmas special which starts filming July 12.

Well...won't we also have the Christmas special on Christmas?

Oh and I forgot about the TWO proms we'll be getting. One hosted by Smith and Karen.

And as I mentioned earlier, the Doctor will be in the Sara Jane Adventures later this year.

 

[Brent]

I wonder if the doctor really was expecting to be saved, or if it was a bit of a surprise in the end.

There was a sense that he gave up; he decided to stop traveling back along his own personal timeline, and he evinces surprise that Amy remembered enough of him to pull him back across into the new timeline.

This is going to be so cool, a universe where the Doctor didn't exist.

why isn't the doctor existing in this universe? huh what?

I thought the whole point was that the Pandorica restored everything back to just the way it was, therefore, everything the Doctor had ever done also exists, even if the Doctor didn't exist.

Wait, that could answer my previous question as to why the Earth still survived without the Doctor.

Shizam!

 

[GabeHimself]

Didn't care for it and most of my friends didn't either. The message boards seem to be filled with praise for it, but I'm befuddled as to why.

There's a lot of emotion missing on my part and I think the story messed with narrative structure just for the sake of messing with it. (Brilliant! Amazing!)

This entire season has been lackluster and boring with nothing at stake in the episodic standalones. (Best Season Ever!)

Nothing makes sense. And wheras I would usually forgive RTD because he gave me a dramatic core and entertained me, I was pretty ungripped through the entire season.

The Eleventh Hour was one of the best episodes of Doctor Who ever. Every successive episode failed to live up to it.

So, I guess you'll be sitting out next season?

I won't be looking forward to Who as much as I did in the past five years, no.

But your question came with an agenda: snark. To try and say that my disliking it has no validity. Well this thread is filled with praise and they need no justification for it just as much as I need no justification in airing my grievance with it.

None of my criticisms have been met with refutations, but just the tired old empty "why do you watch?" that have become tiresome to the individuals like me who watch these programs for enjoyment.

There is a new creative force helming the show. I stayed quiet until I saw it. I saw it and thought it was lacking. If you didn't, that's fine. But my criticism is valid, I am not alone and I'm certain changes will be made.

 

[Brent]

I just came up with a new theory that might answer my own question. If the Pandorica restored the Universe exactly back to the way it was, up to the point of TARDIS explosion, then everything the Doctor has ever done in the Universe also still happened! Even if the Doctor himself didn't exist anymore! So when he came back, he came back into the Universe we've always known and loved, everything he has done still exists and happened, and now he is back actually in the universe. So really, nothing is changed, its all the same as it was before, sans cracks.

Hizzah!

 

[Chaos Descending]

I just came up with a new theory that might answer my own question. If the Pandorica restored the Universe exactly back to the way it was, up to the point of TARDIS explosion, then everything the Doctor has ever done in the Universe also still happened! Even if the Doctor himself didn't exist anymore! So when he came back, he came back into the Universe we've always known and loved, everything he has done still exists and happened, and now he is back actually in the universe. So really, nothing is changed, its all the same as it was before, sans cracks.

Hizzah!

That's the impression that I am under.

 

[WillsBabe]

That was great! Loved it all. My favourite part overall was the Doctor sitting by Amelia's bedside telling her the story of him stealing the Tardis. I loved Matt's acting there. He seemed to become the old man he was talking about. I thought Amy looked absolutely beautiful in her wedding dress. Great to see the return of little Amelia. I'd hoped we'd see her again. I love the moment when the Doctor came to pick her up from her suitcase. He did come back for her. I knew he would.

I know most of this thread has been about plot points and story arcs, for me it's all about the character moments.

 

[KevasTrader]

Question: Why can past Amy and present Amy touch? Shouldn't that have created the same paradox situation that was caused when present Rose touched baby Rose in "Father's day"?

 

[Cyke101]

None of my criticisms have been met with refutations, but just the tired old empty "why do you watch?" that have become tiresome to the individuals like me who watch these programs for enjoyment.

If I'm not mistaken, only one person in this thread had quoted your post, and you referenced his reply(The). How many others have refuted you in this thread?

For other people that didn't like the episode, their concerns/criticisms have gone back and forth between those who liked the episode, both sides with some depth and points of for and against the narrative; maybe you're confusing their exchanges for yours.

Question: Why can past Amy and present Amy touch? Shouldn't that have created the same paradox situation that was caused when present Rose touched baby Rose in "Father's day"?

Considering the temporal nature of the crisis, I would guess that the Reapers would be among the first races to be wiped out. Besides, because it was the end of everything, I'm so sure our heroes threw the rulebook out the window!

 

[Australis]

I thought it was a bit odd though how her "memories" could bring the Doctor back into existence. Someone will have to explain that to me. Cause if the Doctor wasn't around, Earth would have been destroyed a dozen times over without his help, heh, so technically no one should have been alive cause the Daleks or something would have taken over the Earth by now without the Doctor. Then "thinking" him into existence was weird. Shed some light on all this someone?

I look at it this way. Assuming the Doctor was evaporated in an explosion, his atoms were scattered through space and time. It took someone who remembered him, to focus on him, to draw him back together. Or something like that. Someoen will be along to explain it better shortly.

 

[Sheep]

I liked Rory from the start (which seems to run against popular opinion here)

What board have you been visiting? I think most of us are on your side

If I'm not mistaken, the earliest impressions of Rory were that he was a whiny, expendable git.

That might have changed over time and I didn't read all of the threads that were hundreds of posts long in the middle of the season, but I don't recall the earliest impressions of him being very positive.

 

[Lonemagpie]

I liked Rory from the start (which seems to run against popular opinion here)

What board have you been visiting? I think most of us are on your side

If I'm not mistaken, the earliest impressions of Rory were that he was a whiny, expendable git.

That might have changed over time and I didn't read all of the threads that were hundreds of posts long in the middle of the season, but I don't recall the earliest impressions of him being very positive.

Rory's a wet fish. Auton Rory was actually good, and a lot more three-dimensional than the original, so it's kind of annoying that he seems to have been rebooted back to that original!