A Niner Watches Babylon 5 (NO spoilers, please)
- Thread starter TheGodBen
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Ew. Now I have this image of Clark becoming like Dukat on Deep Space Nine, with all those fangirls who wanted to fuck him and took his side in the oppression of the Bajorans, so the writers panicked and made "Waltz" to show just how much of a bastard he was.
Well, at the risk of stating the obvious that's almost exactly what it is. The next episode they filmed is not the one you're about to see. It's a bit confusing, but here goes: 'Sleeping in Light' was always intended to be the series finale at the end of a 5 season show. When it looked like they'd they weren't going to get season 5 they were forced to slightly compress season 4 to make sure the primary threads got wrapped up. Not by much mind you, the initial intention had been to end the season on the cliffhanger of having Sheridan captured and spending the first three or four episodes of season 5 wrapping up the civil war as you've just seen.
With that done, fates conspired and they got an 11th hour reprieve so they locked the unedited footage of 'Sleeping in Light' away and made 'The Deconstruction of Falling Stars' - something that was more or less made up on the spot - as the first episode (production wise) of the 5th season, and aired it as the season 4 finale.
Only when season 5 had finished filming was the footage for 'Sleeping in Light' dug out, edited, and finished properly.
As it stands it's all pretty seamless, though there are a few little details that show it was filmed with the intention of directly following on from 'Rising Star', at least thematically.
As I'm sure others will also want to point out, the compression of season 4 meant that the first half of season 5 suddenly had some time to kill so takes a while to regain some momentum. Personally (whatever one might think of certain plot threads and characters) I rather liked the return to the slightly slower paced stand-alone episodes with the overarching plot moved to the background. They certainly couldn't possibly have kept pace with the explosive end to season 4.
I think there's another one where Delenn morphs into Londo, which I thought was doubly disturbing.
I decided to stop wanting to know more about President Clark after reading this article, especially these quotes:
What the hell? Sure, the guy wasn't evil 100% of the time, but if there's one man in history where you must absolutely not disregard his negative side it's HITLER!
That's an Indian thing. Apparently, the "Führer" ist quite popular on the subcontinent even today. In large parts it has something to do with Nazi Germany fighting and almost defeating their oppressors from the British Empire.
To quote Mahatma Gandhi: "I do not consider Hitler to be as bad as he is depicted. He is showing an ability that is amazing and seems to be gaining his victories without much bloodshed."
"Adolf" and/or "Hitler" are also used as given names in India. A relatively well-known example is the politician Adolf Lu Hitler Marak: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Lu_Hitler_Marak
Alright, sorry for this little discourse... back to B5.
I have said it before, I will say it again... Season 5 is roughly comparabale to Season 2. Which means you'll need some patience in the first half.
I don't think that is only an Indian thing...There are lots of Neo Nazi fringe in Europe , USA ( even a some loons here in Turkey ) who find Hitler and National Socialism attractive because of supposedly great military victories of German Army or anti-semitzm is suitable to their radical politics while they had no idea of what National Socialism really is....Reality is : so called "patriot and inspritaional" Hitler turned Germany a wasteland in 1945 at the end of WW2 and tried to make more wasteland with his Scorched Earth policy...He did not give a damn about German people at the end. But of course it is convinient to ignore these inconvinient facts....
Military glory is like that. It creates heroes , legends , myths for ignorant people , masses , individuals who are in search of inspiration , motivation , role model and a figure for an ideal....They do not care what the idea is as long as it seemed full of glory in simplified , distorted history....
I know Sheridan and Hitler are not alike at all BUT Remember what interregator said to Sheridan in "Intersections in Real Time"
"You are a war hero. They invested a lot of time and effort to make you a hero in public's eye. The problem is when a war hero starts believing in certain things ( Hitler presented himself as a hero by the way , an Iron Cross winner in WWI ) public listens. They think there might be something in it.."
By the way someone should remind those Hitler loving Indians that Hitler actually ADMIRED British Empire and especially British colonial rule on India....He always took British Empire and its yoke on India as an ( partial ) example to rule when he started invading and conquering Eastern Europe and Russian territory. In 1942 he even considered invading India and ruling there like British did....
Sorry for my rant.....About this episode I always wondered one thing...If Night Watch did anything to Sheridan's father how would Sheridan/Garibaldi relationship evolve ? Since old Sheridan came back safe it seems Sheridan considered matter closed. He understood that Garibaldi was programmed and he was not acting like himself BUT if his father was tortured or killed under custody there would be an interesting chance for drama between Sheridan and Garibaldi
I also like season five and the change of pace. I mean, there should be a change of pace, because the situation in the Bab-5 galaxy has changed immensely. The wars are over, the alliance has been formed, Sheridan has a different job- if there wasn't a shift in the pace it would seem quite "off" to me. As it is, we get the quieter introduction to the final season and a real sense that things have "calmed down" for our little collective of races. I found that quite satisfactory; they deserve it after all they've been through.
And I like the opportunity for more reflective exploration of their new bonds in the Alliance.Whatever a lot of people say, TGB, I found season five just as entertaining as the previous seasons, and while it can drag a bit in places, I never saw it as the bastardized step-season some other folk do.
G'Londo was my favourite. Basically, G'kar but with Londo's crest and a slightly Mollari-esque cast to his face. Quite amusing, though I don't remember which season it was.
I've been trying to access the website all day to post this but I kept being blocked. Turns out it was a DNS issue and all I had to do was change my DNS values. Stupid internets. 
(By which I mean stupid me for not figuring it out.
)
The Deconstruction of Falling Stars (***½)
It feels weird watching an episode like this, it feels like I'm watching a coda to a show that hasn't ended yet. In a way this episode reminds me of Enterprise's These Are the Voyages as it involves people centuries in the future (from the show's setting) looking back to the characters of the show and evaluating their legendary status. The main difference between the two episodes is that this one isn't awful.
It's clear early on that the show is going spend each act at a different time period further into the future, so I guessed that the "present" section would be slightly positive to Sheridan and co, 100 years later would have people being more critical, 500 years later would be very critical and 1,000 years later people would view Sheridan positively again. I was almost right, I just forgot to include the nuclear holocaust that sent Earth back into the Dark Ages. I always forget to consider that possibility, luckily it hasn't come up in my life thus far.
The only section I had a big problem with was the third one, it felt like a stretch that Sheridan, Delenn, Franklin and Garibaldi could be resurrected as holograms 500 years later with their personalities intact, especially since the historical records of them had already been misinterpreted only 100 years after the events. The Garibaldi hologram somehow having the ability to transmit what was going on felt rushed and I didn't buy into it. I'm also upset that B5 somehow fell into a holodeck malfunction cliché, the show had been doing so well to avoid it.
Scott Bakula: 65
(By which I mean stupid me for not figuring it out.
)The Deconstruction of Falling Stars (***½)
It feels weird watching an episode like this, it feels like I'm watching a coda to a show that hasn't ended yet. In a way this episode reminds me of Enterprise's These Are the Voyages as it involves people centuries in the future (from the show's setting) looking back to the characters of the show and evaluating their legendary status. The main difference between the two episodes is that this one isn't awful.
It's clear early on that the show is going spend each act at a different time period further into the future, so I guessed that the "present" section would be slightly positive to Sheridan and co, 100 years later would have people being more critical, 500 years later would be very critical and 1,000 years later people would view Sheridan positively again. I was almost right, I just forgot to include the nuclear holocaust that sent Earth back into the Dark Ages. I always forget to consider that possibility, luckily it hasn't come up in my life thus far.
The only section I had a big problem with was the third one, it felt like a stretch that Sheridan, Delenn, Franklin and Garibaldi could be resurrected as holograms 500 years later with their personalities intact, especially since the historical records of them had already been misinterpreted only 100 years after the events. The Garibaldi hologram somehow having the ability to transmit what was going on felt rushed and I didn't buy into it. I'm also upset that B5 somehow fell into a holodeck malfunction cliché, the show had been doing so well to avoid it.
Scott Bakula: 65
Well if the humans didn't develop the tech for personality re-creation that fast, perhaps they reverse engineered some Vorlon tech. A story that takes place around 300 years later (a short story written for Amazing Stories) mentions neural maps being stored on data crystals.
It created the program as specified, and Garibaldi's personality allowed him to hack into the programming, since he was good at computers when he was security chief.The Garibaldi hologram somehow having the ability to transmit what was going on felt rushed and I didn't buy into it. I'm also upset that B5 somehow fell into a holodeck malfunction cliché, the show had been doing so well to avoid it.
I agree with DN about season 5. I thought it was very good. It sort of mimics seasons 1-4's structure in one season.
Season 4 Review
It was the month of misfires... the month of obstruction... the month we took back our cars. It was the month of mirth... the month of worrying madness... the month of the inane... and the month of oy (vey). It was a rain gauge. It was the end of the Chancellery. It was the month with the introduction that's very difficult to alter in a meaningful way. The month is June. The place: You don't know by now?
Cue some slightly less dramatic music.
That sound you hear? That's the sound of me weeping at the sight of this graph. Look at it, it's horrible! There's not a single bad episode for me to be snarky about it. It's sickening and it makes me question whether my life is really worth living if I'm destined to actually enjoying the shows that I'm watching. Hell, not just enjoying but... loving.
The average score for the season was 7.136 and it was remarkably consistent throughout, with only a slight lull in the middle. You may as well get rid of the 0-3 section because it's not in use, it's not even close to being in use. How did JMS do that? Seriously, how the hell did one overworked guy manage to put out an entire season of material without one major dud while not being caught with magic mushrooms and crack cocaine in his car?
Argh, Eight 7s!
It must have been me that was on the magic mushrooms! Not crack though, I refuse to take any of that again, the last time I got high on that I awoke to find myself working on a Voyager review thread.
On the whole these results are very similar to season 3 but with more 8s and less 6s. I rated 18 episodes above average, 3 were average and only 1 was below average, but even that episode wasn't bad.
Best episode: Intersections in Real Time
Worst episode: The Illusion of Truth
Statistics
Captain Greyshirt: 15 (+0)
Scott Bakula: 65 (+15)
Scott Bakula?!: 4 (+0)
Season 1 Average: 5.045
Season 2 Average: 5.682
Season 3 Average: 6.5
Season 4 Average: 7.136
Overall Average: 6.079
Voyager Average After 4 Seasons: 4.914
Enterprise Final Average: 5.206
(I don't know why I even included those two comparission figures, B5 is clearly way out in front of them.)
In Summation
It appears that I'm one of those people that prefers season 4 over season 3, which means that I am Purple, not Green. Purple must fight Green. There is no other way. (I really hope the R1 DVD sets are the same colour as the R2 ones or else that joke will not make sense to most of you.) Green had big conflict with Earth, ignored it to fight with black spider ships. Black spider ships okay, not as interesting as Earth. Purple had some black spider ships but resolved plot swiftly and focused more on war with Earth. This good move for Purple.
If Purple have flaw it is that it do too much. Purple have war with black spider ships, Purple have boneheads fight one another, Purple have Earth civil war. Purple best, but could feel quite rushed at times. Creation of Interstellar Alliance happen very fast. European unity moves born out of Second Earth War, still take many years to take form. Began as Coal and Steel Community, not Alliance. With extra development time of season 5 perhaps better paced, me not sure of original plan. Not sure of Yellow or if it could deliver, it not in the rules.
Hang on a sec, the Drazi don't speak like this all the time, do they?
Did they only do it in that one episode? Deary me, it's quite annoying.
Anyway, I look forward to season 5. To be honest, the show could do with some down-time, it has seen so much action over the last few years that allowing the characters some rest could do it some good. I guess I'll find out soon enough if season 5 really is the bastard step-child with acne and a voice like sandpaper. Even if it is, I'll probably identify with it.
It was the month of misfires... the month of obstruction... the month we took back our cars. It was the month of mirth... the month of worrying madness... the month of the inane... and the month of oy (vey). It was a rain gauge. It was the end of the Chancellery. It was the month with the introduction that's very difficult to alter in a meaningful way. The month is June. The place: You don't know by now?
Cue some slightly less dramatic music.
That sound you hear? That's the sound of me weeping at the sight of this graph. Look at it, it's horrible! There's not a single bad episode for me to be snarky about it. It's sickening and it makes me question whether my life is really worth living if I'm destined to actually enjoying the shows that I'm watching. Hell, not just enjoying but... loving.
The average score for the season was 7.136 and it was remarkably consistent throughout, with only a slight lull in the middle. You may as well get rid of the 0-3 section because it's not in use, it's not even close to being in use. How did JMS do that? Seriously, how the hell did one overworked guy manage to put out an entire season of material without one major dud while not being caught with magic mushrooms and crack cocaine in his car?
Argh, Eight 7s!
It must have been me that was on the magic mushrooms! Not crack though, I refuse to take any of that again, the last time I got high on that I awoke to find myself working on a Voyager review thread.On the whole these results are very similar to season 3 but with more 8s and less 6s. I rated 18 episodes above average, 3 were average and only 1 was below average, but even that episode wasn't bad.
Best episode: Intersections in Real Time
Worst episode: The Illusion of Truth
Statistics
Captain Greyshirt: 15 (+0)
Scott Bakula: 65 (+15)
Scott Bakula?!: 4 (+0)
Season 1 Average: 5.045
Season 2 Average: 5.682
Season 3 Average: 6.5
Season 4 Average: 7.136
Overall Average: 6.079
Voyager Average After 4 Seasons: 4.914
Enterprise Final Average: 5.206
(I don't know why I even included those two comparission figures, B5 is clearly way out in front of them.)
In Summation
It appears that I'm one of those people that prefers season 4 over season 3, which means that I am Purple, not Green. Purple must fight Green. There is no other way. (I really hope the R1 DVD sets are the same colour as the R2 ones or else that joke will not make sense to most of you.) Green had big conflict with Earth, ignored it to fight with black spider ships. Black spider ships okay, not as interesting as Earth. Purple had some black spider ships but resolved plot swiftly and focused more on war with Earth. This good move for Purple.
If Purple have flaw it is that it do too much. Purple have war with black spider ships, Purple have boneheads fight one another, Purple have Earth civil war. Purple best, but could feel quite rushed at times. Creation of Interstellar Alliance happen very fast. European unity moves born out of Second Earth War, still take many years to take form. Began as Coal and Steel Community, not Alliance. With extra development time of season 5 perhaps better paced, me not sure of original plan. Not sure of Yellow or if it could deliver, it not in the rules.
Hang on a sec, the Drazi don't speak like this all the time, do they?
Did they only do it in that one episode? Deary me, it's quite annoying.Anyway, I look forward to season 5. To be honest, the show could do with some down-time, it has seen so much action over the last few years that allowing the characters some rest could do it some good. I guess I'll find out soon enough if season 5 really is the bastard step-child with acne and a voice like sandpaper. Even if it is, I'll probably identify with it.
Details of the Alliance have not been completely worked out quite yet.
I was asking for an explanation, not exposition.Well, to be fair you have been asking for exactly that for at least the last three pages, no?
Intersections in Real Time (*****)
When I saw the DVD menu I worried about this episode because all the images showed Sheridan's interrogation, so I feared that's all this episode would be. I don't have fond memories of Comes the Inquisitor and I thought that this episode was going to be similar in style to that one. Well, it was similar, but this episode was much better. By the end of the teaser I was sold that this episode might be good. Luckily for me, I was right.
This is the sort of thing I like to see, two men in a room together engaged in psychological warfare, never quite sure where it is all heading. I like the interrogator, at times he reminded me of René Aberjonois, I prefer him to Jack the Ripper because this guy rarely inflicts physical pain, he prefers to attack Sheridan's mind. And he made some good points about our perception of truth. For example, the things that he tried to get Sheridan to confess to were all true; Sheridan did conspire with aliens against the Earth government, he did steal Earth's property, he is responsible for the deaths of Earth Alliance officers. We all know why Sheridan did these things and we know that ultimately he is in the right, but he did perform those actions, and if he performed those actions why wont he sign the confession admitting as such? Because they'll kill him. Or will they? They might let him go so as to prove to the citizens of Earth that he is alive, that might be sensible. Who knows what EarthGov really intends to do with Sheridan? I don't.
I really enjoyed this episode even though it doesn't move the various plots along, that's actually one of this episode's strengths. Putting a b-story over this would have ruined the feeling that we're trapped in the room with Sheridan. I had feared there might have been a bit of a deus ex machina at the end as Ivanova rescues him somehow, luckily that didn't happen and instead Sheridan is put in another room to go through all of this again! I don't know what that means, but neither does Sheridan, we're both confused. Which is good. I think. What time is it anyway?
Scott Bakula: 60
I'm a few days late, but this is my favourite episode of B5. I remember being floored by how good this episode was when I first went through the series a few years ago.
Oh, so now that you've hit the end of season 4, I can safely link to Babylon 5: The Missing Lines
Now, for God's sake, wash your hands!
Now, for God's sake, wash your hands!
I suspect you've succumb to what's known as Fiver smugness, taking whatever opportunity to show just how superior your show is in comparison to other sci-fi. I hear the combination of that and Niner smugness can be excruciatingly intolerable to fans of other shows.
And call me Green, but I tend to prefer S3 over S4 because there's still a sense of 'magic' in the universe, of tantalizing mystery to still be discovered. S4 is all Business: gripping, yes, but Serious. Plus, S3 has more Scheming Londo to enjoy.
If you show it with a graph, it has to be true!
(This thread was funnier when the show was bad.)
(This thread was funnier when the show was bad.)
Is there any notable anti-Fivers that troll the board making weird and often insane accusations about us? Because that could be a fun way for me to while away an afternoon.
Oh, I just referred to myself as a Fiver. I feel like I'm cheating on DS9 when I do that. I think I'm going to have to call myself a Fifty-Niner from now on to make it clear that I'm a fan of both shows.
Why couldn't the show have been called Babylon 6?Yes, it's hard to make fun of a show when it's actually good.
Still, cheer up, I'm about to start season 5 so there's some hope. No Compromises (**½)
When I said it would be good for the show to take a break from the epic arcs of season 4 I meant that I hoped the show would do something new, not another plot about unhinged Earthers trying to get at Sheridan for some reason. This plot feels like a rehash of an episode from season 1 or 2 with the added fact that Sheridan is a President now. The story is okay but I knew Sheridan wasn't going to die, and the bad guy wasn't interesting, so the episode felt like it was going through the motions, trying to fill an hour of TV time.
I suppose I should talk about Captain Lochley. Who the hell is Captain Lochley?
I assume that she was brought in to replace Ivanova, but she doesn't make a particularly exciting entrance. She shows up, antagonises Garibaldi and tells some telepaths to go away. Oh yes, Byron, I guess I should talk about him too. I've heard stories about Byron, none of them positive. As soon as I saw the guy with the long blonde hair I thought to myself "he looks irritating enough to be this Byron I've heard about", and that's exactly who it turned out to be. Byron leads a group of telepaths that have set up a colony on the station with President Sheridan's permission, the most important telepath being a shy young man that illegally mind scans people. Don't worry, it's okay because he's a teenage boy, they'd never do abuse extraordinary powers.Anyway, Sheridan's inauguration ceremony is interrupted by a guy trying to kill him, but he insists on going ahead with with the ceremony even though there's a dead security guy on the floor along with a dying child. Best President-Elect ever!
In the end the bad guy is captured, Sheridan is made President and he undermines Lochley at the earliest opportunity. I think he likes her.Scott Bakula: 67
Byron is Jim Jones and B5 is his banana republic.
I always wondered what the Gaim are thinking right now. A great start to the new Alliance for them I always imagine Sheridan on the comm to N'chak'fah:
"Oh, you know that new ambassador you sent just yesterday? Well...we need a new new ambassador. That's right. What? We just do. I don't know, some bog-standard human villain was wearing it. How am I sypposed to know where he put the body? He probably dumped it in the refuse bin. Look, just send another one, will you?".
........
PS: I wish I could say something positive about Byron. I really do.
I always imagine Sheridan on the comm to N'chak'fah:"Oh, you know that new ambassador you sent just yesterday? Well...we need a new new ambassador. That's right. What? We just do. I don't know, some bog-standard human villain was wearing it. How am I sypposed to know where he put the body? He probably dumped it in the refuse bin. Look, just send another one, will you?".
........
PS: I wish I could say something positive about Byron. I really do.
Well, the actor was alright as a Minbari, but then we didn't have to put up with his Fabio Hair in those scenes.
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