The 14th amendment

[Kail]

Do you think it's right, that children of illegal immigrants born here are automatically made US citizens? Should we make people US citizens simply because they happen to be born on US soil? Shouldn't there be SOME tie to the US before we bestow US citizenship, and all that goes with it on someone? A woman from anywhere in the world could be visiting the US on vacation, and just happen to deliver her baby here... boom, US citizen, entitled to a free education, welfare, ect. Personally, I think it's nuts. The 14th amendment was created to protect the rights of newly freed slaves, all well and good, but today it is being exploited by people who come here to have their children just so they can reap the benefits and hand outs that us taxpayers provide.

And before you call me a racist, a bigot, or a Nazi, I am all for anyone who really wants to be a US citizen. Anyone who wants to come here legally, and give up all allegiances to their homeland for the US, is welcome in my book.

 

[Snaploud]

I think it makes a lot more sense than the citizenship rules for other countries. I like the simplicity: born here = citizen (also a citizen if one of your parents is a citizen).

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Yep. Two of my nephews, for example, have automatic dual citizenship in the UK and the US because of their mixed parentage: their mom (my sister) is American, and she's married to a Brit. So wherever in the world these kids happened to be born, they would - by parentage alone - automatically be US and UK citizens.

 

[Kail]

^ Yep. Two of my nephews, for example, have automatic dual citizenship in the UK and the US because of their mixed parentage: their mom (my sister) is American, and she's married to a Brit. So wherever in the world these kids happened to be born, they would - by parentage alone - automatically be US and UK citizens.

But this is not my point, these childrens parents, or parent, have a connection to the US.

Also, isn't this law an inducement to break the law, and come here illegally?

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I don't know. The logic seemed, to me, that if the children were automatically citizens, then their parents would know that and thus work harder to go legit themselves.

 

[JiNX-01]

Do you think it's right, that children of illegal immigrants born here are automatically made US citizens? Should we make people US citizens simply because they happen to be born on US soil?

I have no problem with the concept.

Shouldn't there be SOME tie to the US before we bestow US citizenship, and all that goes with it on someone?

Being born here is having a tie to the U.S. That's the whole point.

A woman from anywhere in the world could be visiting the US on vacation, and just happen to deliver her baby here... boom, US citizen, entitled to a free education, welfare, ect.

Well, in order to get all those freebies the baby would have to remain in the U.S. and if mom is here on vacation, she'll probably insist on taking the kid home with her. Technically, the child would have dual citizenship -- so how do you feel about the kid mooching off TWO countries?

Personally, I think it's nuts. The 14th amendment was created to protect the rights of newly freed slaves, all well and good, but today it is being exploited by people who come here to have their children just so they can reap the benefits and hand outs that us taxpayers provide.

Having children to reap the benefits of being here, illegal immigrants are not shielded from deportation by giving birth to children on U.S. soil. And they fear discovery so many of them avoid the "free" services that are available to the rest of us.

And before you call me a racist, a bigot, or a Nazi, I am all for anyone who really wants to be a US citizen. Anyone who wants to come here legally, and give up all allegiances to their homeland for the US, is welcome in my book.

I wouldn't call you any of those things. You're entitled to your opinion. I just don't think it's right to demand some kind of loyalty test from a newborn.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I just don't think it's right to demand some kind of loyalty test from a newborn.

Wouldn't work anyway; the kid would probably just drool on it.

 

[RandyS]

I just don't think it's right to demand some kind of loyalty test from a newborn.

Wouldn't work anyway; the kid would probably just drool on it.

Or piss on it.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Maybe if you gave the kid two sippy cups and instructions to choose which one?

 

[Alpha Romeo]

Do you think it's right, that children of illegal immigrants born here are automatically made US citizens? Should we make people US citizens simply because they happen to be born on US soil? Shouldn't there be SOME tie to the US before we bestow US citizenship, and all that goes with it on someone? A woman from anywhere in the world could be visiting the US on vacation, and just happen to deliver her baby here... boom, US citizen, entitled to a free education, welfare, ect. Personally, I think it's nuts. The 14th amendment was created to protect the rights of newly freed slaves, all well and good, but today it is being exploited by people who come here to have their children just so they can reap the benefits and hand outs that us taxpayers provide.

And before you call me a racist, a bigot, or a Nazi, I am all for anyone who really wants to be a US citizen. Anyone who wants to come here legally, and give up all allegiances to their homeland for the US, is welcome in my book.

Citizenship is a federal right. Therefore the 14th amendment doesn't apply. The 5th Amendment does.

 

[Kail]

Do you think it's right, that children of illegal immigrants born here are automatically made US citizens? Should we make people US citizens simply because they happen to be born on US soil? Shouldn't there be SOME tie to the US before we bestow US citizenship, and all that goes with it on someone? A woman from anywhere in the world could be visiting the US on vacation, and just happen to deliver her baby here... boom, US citizen, entitled to a free education, welfare, ect. Personally, I think it's nuts. The 14th amendment was created to protect the rights of newly freed slaves, all well and good, but today it is being exploited by people who come here to have their children just so they can reap the benefits and hand outs that us taxpayers provide.

And before you call me a racist, a bigot, or a Nazi, I am all for anyone who really wants to be a US citizen. Anyone who wants to come here legally, and give up all allegiances to their homeland for the US, is welcome in my book.

Citizenship is a federal right. Therefore the 14th amendment doesn't apply. The 5th Amendment does.

I don't see how the fifth applies.

 

[auntiehill]

I think, if you're born here, you should be a citizen automatically. The parents should still have to take the citizenship test, and all that other red tape, but they should be allow to stay as legal immigrants, since their child was born here. *shrug* Just my two cents.

 

[Snaploud]

Do you think it's right, that children of illegal immigrants born here are automatically made US citizens? Should we make people US citizens simply because they happen to be born on US soil? Shouldn't there be SOME tie to the US before we bestow US citizenship, and all that goes with it on someone? A woman from anywhere in the world could be visiting the US on vacation, and just happen to deliver her baby here... boom, US citizen, entitled to a free education, welfare, ect. Personally, I think it's nuts. The 14th amendment was created to protect the rights of newly freed slaves, all well and good, but today it is being exploited by people who come here to have their children just so they can reap the benefits and hand outs that us taxpayers provide.

And before you call me a racist, a bigot, or a Nazi, I am all for anyone who really wants to be a US citizen. Anyone who wants to come here legally, and give up all allegiances to their homeland for the US, is welcome in my book.

Citizenship is a federal right. Therefore the 14th amendment doesn't apply.

???

The 14th Amendment
ratified 1868 Section. 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside....

 

[gturner]

Do you think it's right, that children of illegal immigrants born here are automatically made US citizens? Should we make people US citizens simply because they happen to be born on US soil? Shouldn't there be SOME tie to the US before we bestow US citizenship, and all that goes with it on someone? A woman from anywhere in the world could be visiting the US on vacation, and just happen to deliver her baby here... boom, US citizen, entitled to a free education, welfare, ect. Personally, I think it's nuts. The 14th amendment was created to protect the rights of newly freed slaves, all well and good, but today it is being exploited by people who come here to have their children just so they can reap the benefits and hand outs that us taxpayers provide.

And before you call me a racist, a bigot, or a Nazi, I am all for anyone who really wants to be a US citizen. Anyone who wants to come here legally, and give up all allegiances to their homeland for the US, is welcome in my book.

Citizenship is a federal right. Therefore the 14th amendment doesn't apply. The 5th Amendment does.

I don't see how the fifth applies.

It means that in public, colicky babies should exercise their right to remain silent.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Actually I believe it gives the right for a parent to consume a FIFTH of bourbon every time their baby starts acting up in public.

 

[JiNX-01]

Do you think it's right, that children of illegal immigrants born here are automatically made US citizens? Should we make people US citizens simply because they happen to be born on US soil? Shouldn't there be SOME tie to the US before we bestow US citizenship, and all that goes with it on someone? A woman from anywhere in the world could be visiting the US on vacation, and just happen to deliver her baby here... boom, US citizen, entitled to a free education, welfare, ect. Personally, I think it's nuts. The 14th amendment was created to protect the rights of newly freed slaves, all well and good, but today it is being exploited by people who come here to have their children just so they can reap the benefits and hand outs that us taxpayers provide.

And before you call me a racist, a bigot, or a Nazi, I am all for anyone who really wants to be a US citizen. Anyone who wants to come here legally, and give up all allegiances to their homeland for the US, is welcome in my book.

Citizenship is a federal right. Therefore the 14th amendment doesn't apply. The 5th Amendment does.

I don't see how the fifth applies.

I don't either.

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

 

[darkwing_duck1]

If you look at the 14th Amendment and it's legislative record (which shows the intent of the lawmakers that passed it), it is clear that the Amendment ONLY applies to those whose parents were either natural born citizens, legal immigrants, or slaves.

It was NEVER intended to provide automatic citizenship to any sprog whose mama got a toe across the border before she popped him/her out.

 

[Chaos Descending]

If you look at the 14th Amendment and it's legislative record (which shows the intent of the lawmakers that passed it), it is clear that the Amendment ONLY applies to those whose parents were either natural born citizens, legal immigrants, or slaves.

It was NEVER intended to provide automatic citizenship to any sprog whose mama got a toe across the border before she popped him/her out.

Regardless, the matter is pretty well settled that the disposition of the parents is mostly irrelevant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Wong_Kim_Ark

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plyler_v._Doe

 

[darkwing_duck1]

If you look at the 14th Amendment and it's legislative record (which shows the intent of the lawmakers that passed it), it is clear that the Amendment ONLY applies to those whose parents were either natural born citizens, legal immigrants, or slaves.

It was NEVER intended to provide automatic citizenship to any sprog whose mama got a toe across the border before she popped him/her out.

Regardless, the matter is pretty well settled that the disposition of the parents is mostly irrelevant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Wong_Kim_Ark

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plyler_v._Doe

So what? Those court cases are incorrect on the facts of the intent of the amendment authors, which are the supreme controlling arbiter of it's effects.

Bad court decisions are NOT "settled issues", any more than Dred Scott or "separate but equal" were "settled issues".

 

[RJDiogenes]

There are have been several court decisions regarding this. At one time, the Supreme Court decided that the 14th Amendment did not apply to Native Americans; they did decide, back in the 1800s, that it did apply to non-citizens from abroad. There were differences of opinion during the original debates over the Amendment, with some Congressmen believing that it should only apply to children of citizens and others believing it should apply to any child born here, so there is no clear intent of the framers to go by. And I don't believe there was any debate over legal or illegal immigrant status at that time, so I don't think that has ever been specifically tested in front of the court.