Replicated Dishes, etc.

[Deks]

So, it's entirely impossible for humans in Trek's 24th century to convert pure energy into matter and back again like they actually said because the power requirements are too much?
You know, the e=mc2 is something they know about and have (as evidenced) created sources of power that are more than adequate for actual energy to matter conversion, and technology to reduce power requirements and increase efficiency for the said process (or circumventing presently known limitations).

Our contemporary knowledge of physics, not to mention technology, are not the final say in the matter.
We will probably discover methods that circumvent some of the contemporary limitations, or completely rewrite some of the rules.
It's been happening all the time throughout history, so I don't see the how it would be impossible for Trek (especially since they are already utilizing knowledge and technology that is not simply 300 years advanced than what we have now, but likely much much more, because some of the races have been much longer in space than humans in Trek {for example, Vulcans who made first contact with Humans in Trek}).

The fact that Humans merely caught up with the rest of the races so fast was because they were exposed to highly advanced technology already, and knew how to adapt accordingly (plus eliminating the money based economy helped).

 

[T'Girl]

So, it's entirely impossible for humans in Trek's 24th century to convert pure energy into matter and back again like they actually said because the power requirements are too much?

Even with near unlimited energy, the technology still need something to work with. Unless you can believe that the replicator is actual creating original atomic structures out of nothing, the replicator process begins with some sort of physical material. The material could just be hydrogen, however the closer the start material is the the end product, the less power would be required for the replication process.

The fact that Humans merely caught up with the rest of the races so fast was because they were exposed to highly advanced technology already, and knew how to adapt accordingly

Part of Trek future history is that Humans didn't invent artificial gravity, it came to us by way of a archeological find on a alien world, a "slaver box."

 

[seekertwo]

^Why a dumbwaiter system?

Simple...TOS replicators were large, heavy units that could only be stored in a central location. It was more efficient power & size-wise to have a replicator in a central location and move the food to the requested location via turbolift than to put replicators in all locations. Think of the old mainframe computers of the '70's & '80's that took up an entire floor and was hard-wired to terminals throughout the office building.

By the 24th Century, replicator tech was small and efficient enough to have a small one in every location....just like the computer you have now.

How's that?....

 

[T'Girl]

During the TOS era they didn't have replicators, they had "fabricators."

 

[Captain Rob]

TOS: Food is replicated at central point and distributed via "dumbwaiter turbolifts" to location.

ST6: Same thing, but galley maintained for special events and/or special dietary requirements that the replicator can't do.

TNG: Self-contained replicators in different locations replace centralized replicator. Raw material piped to replicator location and created on-site. Galley/banquet hall still maintained for special occasions (remember Troi's arranged marriage dinner?)

Plates & cups: Made of same raw material as food and recycled. Someone's cereal bowl gets recycled into someone else's sandwich....

How's that?...

"Computer...One peanut butter and jelly serving plate."

 

[T'Girl]

^Why a dumbwaiter system? Why can't it be a transporter ...

During TOS the mini-turbo lifts (dumbwaiters) didn't just move food and dirty dishes, they would have also carried ships laundry, The Making of Star Trek said there was a central location for that too, and in two episodes (TTW and WALGMO) the mini lifts deliver documents to Kirk's quarters, it serves as his "safe," the identical door/panel on the opposite side of the room separator serves drinks in MM.

Plates & cups: Made of same raw material as food and recycled. Someone's cereal bowl gets recycled into someone else's sandwich....

It depends on how far the replicator recycle breaks things down and then puts them back together again. If the replicator is constantly delivering food on the same size plates around the ship, 24 hour a day, the recycle process might simply strip the plates of all biological material and reuse them. They never get broken down.

There was a episode where Riker asks Crusher why she doesn't just replicate a certain pharmaceutical, Crusher states that the drug is too complex for the replicator. Let's say you want a bowl of chilli, one of the things the replicator would have to make is this:

(CH3)2CHCH=CH(CH2)4CONHCH2C6H3-4-(OH)-3-(OCH3))

that's "capsin." the active chemical ingredient in chile peppers, and if you think that's bad, Captain Picard's Earl Grey Hot has over 500 chemical compounds.

While the replicator does make the bulk of most food from basic materials, some substances might simply be carried on board in their original forms, Captain Picard's tea leaves were probably just grown somewhere.

 

[Deks]

So, it's entirely impossible for humans in Trek's 24th century to convert pure energy into matter and back again like they actually said because the power requirements are too much?

Even with near unlimited energy, the technology still need something to work with. Unless you can believe that the replicator is actual creating original atomic structures out of nothing, the replicator process begins with some sort of physical material. The material could just be hydrogen, however the closer the start material is the the end product, the less power would be required for the replication process.

The fact that Humans merely caught up with the rest of the races so fast was because they were exposed to highly advanced technology already, and knew how to adapt accordingly

Part of Trek future history is that Humans didn't invent artificial gravity, it came to us by way of a archeological find on a alien world, a "slaver box."

Hasn't it been explained that the replicators are used to re-arrange the actual properties of energy and thus turn it into matter (or in terms of recycling, re-arrange properties of matter to convert it into energy which is put into ships EPS system or storage areas)?
In this case, Federation technology manipulates properties on a subatomic scale, and since particles form energy, those particles are rearranged to transform energy into matter.
At least, that's how I always viewed it whenever a statement 'replicators turn energy into matter' was said.
I find it scientifically imprecise to use the term 'energy into matter' unless that's exactly what's happening (which for all intense and purposes was portrayed in such a fashion).

Usage of actual raw matter seems impractical since they would run out of it very fast with all the daily replication needs of a starship crew.

As for the 'slaver box' aspect ... well, the thing is that the only actual technology Humans invented was warp drive (which is something all space faring races develop on their own as time goes by in Trek).
The Vulcans were by about a thousand years more advanced in contrast to Humans of the late 21st century .... but that kind of exposure to technology gave humans a way to realize some of the ideas that Vulcans never thought of.

 

[T'Girl]

In this case, Federation technology manipulates properties on a subatomic scale, and since particles form energy, those particles are rearranged to transform energy into matter.

What you are describing is call nucleosynthesis, I know we're discussing the 24th century and their technology, but the only place we know where nucleosynthesis actual happens is in the middle of stars, do you really think that the hundreds of relatively small devices located in people living quarters can do this?

I think it's much more believable that the replicator take existing material substances and rearranges them.

Usage of actual raw matter seems impractical since they would run out of it very fast with all the daily replication needs of a starship crew.

The majority of the raw materials would be continuously reused, what you eat would be put back into the system as waste. True your body does "keep" some of your food, if you're growing (in one way or another), but most of it passes on through after you've used it. In the engineering spaces, a new part is replicated, then the old is recycled down to it's component substances. Organics, polymers, metals, etc., but not into energy.

 

[Deks]

Nucleosynthesis is exactly what I was referring to.

The Feds do it in a primitive and imperfect capacity, but it's still done.
Often their replication technology has been described in such a manner, and most of all taxing on power.

The point is, they use it on a much smaller scale (and have appropriate energy sources to power such technology).

I find it much more practical for them to be using this type of technology.
Besides, material substance can be considered energy particles as well, so the replicators have 'something' to work with.