Modelling and Rendering the TMP Enterprise

[Science Officer]

Here's an update on the pearlescent effect.

It's getting there - I'm happy with the shades on the diffuse channel and they look a decent match for those in reference photos. The specular is more tricky. I've tried to balance the shades based on the B&W Cloudster images and the colours from the movie snapshots.

I think the shades are OK, but the colours are lousy and it's caused by my use of an intense blue for the spotlights. I think they need to be more neutral with more blue added to the specular channel. More work is needed in this area.

There are four bitmaps below. Two with a dark red background colour are an attempt to match the Enterprise in drydock at the point the spotlights are switched on. The other two have an intense white light in the background.

Cheers,

S.O.

 

[wjaspers]

Yes S.O. looking very good.

Spotlights, I used a gradient for the spotlights, white/pink in the center, bleu/magenta outside, and sometimes a very bright second, ONLY for specularity.

As said before, carefull with the reddish pictures, the HD drydock scenes are like the bright ones you posted.

Nice breakup on the aztecs

 

[Vance]

Also, keep in mind that the lighting in TMP is greatly white-washed and super-bright, making the model appear to glow in parts. You can tell most with some of the blue-trim areas (like around the bright) or by how grayed out some of the lettering gets in certain shots.

That first shot is actually very close to where it should be, actually, if that's what you're going for.

 

[USS Jack Riley]

To add to Vance's comments, on the TMP Director's Edition (and elsewhere), one of the goals stated was to make the Enterprise a light source in an of itself to help viewers see it better against the starfields and especially the vast size of V'gr. As such, she was very brightly lit (much more so than in later movies).

The reason I throw this into the mix is that: (a) you have done a great job of geating the hull coloration correct (pretty much spot on from the source materials I have seen); and (b) you might want to consider some kind of light source(s) that brightly illuminate the entire ship (pure white or a slight bluish white).

I don't know if this is possible in 3d (not being a 3d modeller), but I can only imagine that it is possible to use multiple light sources to get the effect used in TMP. You might want to try different lighting setups and compare them to the photos available online to see a comparison with your model.

Either way, you are doing an excellent job with this model. As I said above, the aztecking (sp?) is darn near spot on. I cannot wait to see this model completed as it is going to be beautiful. Keep it up!

 

[Science Officer]

Hi Folks,

Thanks for the feedback and advice - it's most welcome.

Wil, I must have a missed your post expressing caution about the reddish appearance of the Enterprise in drydock. I take it that the colour balance on TMP-TE Bluray is different from the TMP-DC DVD. If so this is a problem.

I had already noticed a similar problem between TMP-DC DVD and TWOK-DC DVD. On the latter the reused drydock scenes have less colour saturation. I also hear that the TWOK DVD bluray is different again with colours shifted towards blue.

It sounds like you're saying that TMP-TC Bluray is the definitive reference.

Does anyone have any snapshots from the TMP-TC Bluray (as I don't have a copy), especially the bottom of the saucer when the spotlights are switched on? That would help me correct the colours.

USS Jack - I'm kind of hoping that if I ever get to integrate this into my Earth orbit scene, the Enterprise will look very bright. The illumination from full sunlight, Earth and spotlights should suffice. My sunlight is a very slight yellow and the Earth of course provides a lot of white/blue.

Cheers,

S.O.

 

[wjaspers]

Don't know if this is the bluray version, but all the HD snapshots are here:

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/index.php?cat=43

To give you a slight look (beside the format the pics are in):

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p298/wjaspers/New-1.jpg

 

[Vance]

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tmphd/tmphd0373.jpg is actually a really good illustration of what I'm talking about. See that banner on the secondary hull? That's a red banner right there. Red.

See the soft 'egg blue' trim points connecting the two hulls? Oops, matte gray here. The mightnight blue lettering of the ship's registry? Soft charcoal gray here... Very washed out and off-kilter colors. So keep that all in mind when modelling the ship.

 

[Science Officer]

Hi Wil and Vance,

These HD shots are entirely different from the DVD and much, much better! I actually feel more confident about matching these colours than those on the DVD.

I see what you mean Vance! However it looks like a problem with that particular scene because red is severely undersaturated on everything (look at the spacedock structure above the impulse engines).

Thanks again - I'll get to work with these ASAP.

S.O.

 

[Science Officer]

I had a quick look at this tonight. I've adjusted the camera angle to match the HD screenshot, lights and the colours.

Result below:

Needs a faint reddish light on the left.

I'll try to make sure it all works with previous tests at the weekend. Time for bed!

S.O.

 

[The Vorlon]

An incredible model:
http://www.modelermagic.com/?p=21851

 

[Vance]

I'll try to make sure it all works with previous tests at the weekend. Time for bed!

You may want to add the yellow RCS markers and the phaser marker to give you another color to test against on your render as well. It's not a lot, I know, but you'll know if you're shooting too far red or blue that way.

As for the shots I gave you, that's what you're going to run into with TMP. There are some gorgeous shots of the model in that movie, but there's a LOT of over-saturization, brightness, and chroma going on. What I would recommend is try to match what you can with TMP, and when you have doubt, look at some shots from TWOK.

(Keeping in mind, of course, that the model itself changed a little bit in places between the two movies.)

 

[wjaspers]

I had a quick look at this tonight. I've adjusted the camera angle to match the HD screenshot, lights and the colours.

Needs a faint reddish light on the left.

NICE
Guess you are almost there concerning the hull/aztec coloring, try if you can give the spotlight some pink/red in the middle and some more cyan/blue on the outside, you can see it in the HD shot. Ofcourse don't overdo it.

For the lettering, give the black and red some more specularity or glossiness, so it is a bit washed out more.
(the black was in fact a bit bleuish on the model.)

An incredible model:
http://www.modelermagic.com/?p=21851

Wish I had one of those.

What I would recommend is try to match what you can with TMP, and when you have doubt, look at some shots from TWOK.

From TWOK, IMHO, you can only use the dock scenes, rest of the movie the whole ship was discolored for the bleuscreening.

 

[Vance]

From TWOK, IMHO, you can only use the dock scenes, rest of the movie the whole ship was discolored for the bleuscreening.

Actually, no. The ship isn't discolored, it just lost the hyper-finish and saturated lighting. It's actually closer to what the model really looked like than TMP did. Bizzare, I know.

 

[wjaspers]

Actually, no. The ship isn't discolored, it just lost the hyper-finish and saturated lighting. It's actually closer to what the model really looked like than TMP did. Bizzare, I know.

Quote form “The making of the Trek Films”, Edward Gross, 1992 Image Publishing, on the subject of Refit model for TWOK: "(Ken)Ralston (ILM) decided to dull the finish down and add a little detail to the surface. “The ship won’t look any different on the screen…The iridescence still works, but having a little relief on the surface made things easier on us. We didn’t have to horse around with the lighting to get rid of the gloss”

Forgive me for asking, but if they dulled down the ship, how can it look closer to the original?
Also, this dulling down of the surface, was a bit more as they like to admit. Don Matthy's notes that the reliant was painted the same colors as the 2nd paint job of the Enterprise ( Wrath of khan ). So have a look at the Reliant model pics, and you will see how the Ent looked like after the dull job. You can also see in TWOK, that the ENT and the Reliant look the same, and the Reliant was never painted with Olsen's iridescence colors.

 

[Vance]

Most people state that ILM was wrong on their estimate. But, we're talking the difference between washed-out and non-washed-out colors. What was mostly lost from ILM was the 'finish sheen' that diffused the light in TMP so much. The model colors themselves were consistant.

(As an aside, the model itself was apparently damaged between TMP and TWOK. When ILM got a hold of it, they had to rebuild some parts, like the impulse assembly, torpedo assembly, and deflector housing, outright. There are little differences there if you know what you're looking for.)

 

[USS Jack Riley]

(As an aside, the model itself was apparently damaged between TMP and TWOK. When ILM got a hold of it, they had to rebuild some parts, like the impulse assembly, torpedo assembly, and deflector housing, outright. There are little differences there if you know what you're looking for.)

Really? Where? I would like to build both models (including a third with the post-Khan damage) and try to be as accurate as possible. I knew about the paint, but not the parts. Any pics you could show for comparison?

Either way, this model is looking great. I can't wait to see her finished.

 

[Vance]

Really? Where? I would like to build both models (including a third with the post-Khan damage) and try to be as accurate as possible. I knew about the paint, but not the parts. Any pics you could show for comparison?

Either way, this model is looking great. I can't wait to see her finished.

Unfortunately I don't remember the site that I used to look at the details, but it had great shots of the Enterprise from the various movies (the deflector coupling changes a LOT between each movie). Like I said, you wouldn't notice the changes unless you're explicitly looking for them, but off the top of my head:

1) Details on the blue trim around the impulse crystal change somewhat, eventually winding up being missing altogether.

2) Secondary hatches on the upper primary hull not present in most movies.

3) Torpedo launcher 'detail' assembly changes a little between TMP and TWOK.

4) Details and mounting of the 'sensor assembly' around the deflector dish completely rebuilt between TMP and TWOK, as well as TSFS and TVH. (Granted, you can excuse this somewhat by virtue of them being technically different ships.)

5) Rear impulse assembly details different in TUC.

There are others, but just things to note here and there.

 

[wjaspers]

Most people state that ILM was wrong on their estimate. But, we're talking the difference between washed-out and non-washed-out colors. What was mostly lost from ILM was the 'finish sheen' that diffused the light in TMP so much. The model colors themselves were consistant.

(As an aside, the model itself was apparently damaged between TMP and TWOK. When ILM got a hold of it, they had to rebuild some parts, like the impulse assembly, torpedo assembly, and deflector housing, outright. There are little differences there if you know what you're looking for.)

If anyone is interested here is a discussion about it.
http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=148111

For me it is rather simple, the Ent looks in TWOK exactly like the Reliant. If you look at the Reliant model pictures, it is absolutely clear that the colors of the Ent must have been changed. Also by making it dull, the perlescent paint MUST have been affected.
However, think the thruth about it will never be known since there are no pics how the model looked like during TWOK.

Like I said, you wouldn't notice the changes unless you're explicitly looking for them, but off the top of my head:

1) Details on the blue trim around the impulse crystal change somewhat, eventually winding up being missing altogether.

2) Secondary hatches on the upper primary hull not present in most movies.

3) Torpedo launcher 'detail' assembly changes a little between TMP and TWOK.

4) Details and mounting of the 'sensor assembly' around the deflector dish completely rebuilt between TMP and TWOK, as well as TSFS and TVH. (Granted, you can excuse this somewhat by virtue of them being technically different ships.)

5) Rear impulse assembly details different in TUC.

There are others, but just things to note here and there.

Just checked my reference pics again from the model after the shoot of TMP and TUC, but can not find the differences you describe. There are differences in other areas. BUT I do know that the areas you describe are different looking in the movies whenever they used the 3 partly models they made for close ups and the polar light models for destruction, maybe these give some confusion?

Anyway, lets not forget S.O. is trying here to go for the TMP colors and doing a fantastic job.

 

[Science Officer]

Ah the old repaint debate!

Still good stuff and important when you're trying to use B&W NCC-1701 and colour NCC-1701A images.

Anyway here's an update - I took a step back to focus on the diffuse/specular balance. The colours have been removed. This came about after refining my two reference scenes based on Cloudster images 35 and 46 (saucer bottom).

My renders get the look reasonably correct. However I've noticed that in image 35 (just below NCC) the contrast between dark and light patterns in my diffuse channel is much lower than that in the reference.

In image 46 the same problem occurs in parts of the image (right hand side) and the reverse happens in others (too much contrast near left hand side phasers).


I suspect that it can be put down to -

1. The mesh has a slightly different geometry to the model.
2. The cameras and lighting are slightly different.
3. The environment in which the reference photos were taken is almost unknown (i.e. distance of the model above the floor, floor colour).
4. Haven't reproduced all the behaviour of the pearl finish in my shaders.

Before tackling 4 I need to be as sure as possible that 2 and 3 are OK.

I might post the images tonight when I get home. You guys might have some ideas.

Cheers,

S.O.

 

[USS Jack Riley]

Unfortunately I don't remember the site that I used to look at the details, but it had great shots of the Enterprise from the various movies (the deflector coupling changes a LOT between each movie). Like I said, you wouldn't notice the changes unless you're explicitly looking for them, but off the top of my head:

Hey, anything is better than nothing. Thanks for the info. i will check them out on DVD/Blu-Ray when I get the chance.

Thanks again.