The Karate Kid... movie... remake thing. Discussion and Spoilers

[BriGuy]

Eh, I got the gist from the trailer. All I need to do is add 2hrs and 48 minutes of it.

Yesssss... embrace your blatant ignorance... becomes one with it... make it your bitch..... yessssssssssss........

Hey, you know it's true. I bet the acting doesn't go beyond the 2 minute trailer for this movie. The evidence: All they showed were quips, and smart ass remarks by the kid. Remember the full trailer for Star Trek? They showed full ranges of acting, dialogue, and character interaction. All we got with Karate Kid was, 'You're Yoda, and I'm like a Jedi.' That one quip turned me off completely from the movie. The original came out a year after Jedi, and didn't rely on crappy puns at the time.


Karate Kid - 1984 Trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDi3an8WgN4

Listen to all that dialogue, plot points, and even a hint at the humor established in the movie. Now:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRXOacHWth8&feature=fvw

Okay, about a minute and a half is all footage. Who are the good guys, who are the bad guys? Bareley any acting at all. We see no glimps of the John Kreese like character. All we are focused on is how kewl Jaden Smith looks doing Kara...I mean Kung Fu.

Just for Shits-and-Giggles, here's the Karate Kid Part II trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-OggSDNlcU&feature=related

You see Daniel growing in strength. New problems. Tougher challenges. Real combat. Even though it's bareley established, you know who the bad guys, and good guys are. Still I believe would be better than Kung Fu Kid. My belief stands. I don't need to see the movie to know that.

In conclusion, I'm not gonna comment anymore on this. Clearly I'm outgunned on people who acutally like the movie. I for one would rather watch paint dry, but whatever. One day, a remake will come along, and you'll understand what I feel. You'll feel the sting when Jaws, or Raiders of the Lost Ark is remade. You won't need to see it when you just know in your heart it'll be bad. Until then, cheers!

The only test of this movie's staying power is, 10 years from now, when people mention Karate Kid, which one will they say: Jacket on, Jacket off, or Wax on, Wax Off?

No, you're outgunned by people who think it's absolutely ridiculous that you believe you can judge and offer an opinion on a movie THAT YOU HAVE NOT SEEN!

Find me one credible movie reviewer who bases their reviews on watching trailers, and not the actual, whole, entire film.

If you don't see the film, I hope you keep your mouth shut and your fingers off the keyboard.

 

[Trekker4747]

If he doesn't want to see the movie because it's a remake that's all fine and good. But he's making entire judgements and qualifications on the movie having not seen it and that is out of line.

The training montages, for example, in this movie are very well done and the kid doesn't learn Kung-Fu in just one of them, there's a couple of them and the movie even rights some of the kid's ease of picking it up in saying that he had some firendly "lessons" from a friend or relative who knew a martial art.

But the movie does the training very, very well. Esp. when Dre gets the "mirror sticks" or whatever they are and coxes Han out of the car in a druken stupor. The relationship built here between Dre and Han is brillant, heart-felt and powerful. I'm going to need to go back and watch the original here in the next week or so to compare these two movies more fairly (again, it's been a few years since I saw the original.)

But, really, this movie is at the very least as good as the original but, honestly, from what I recall it surpasses it in spades. I loved Chan's fight with the bullies using Chan's usual schtick of using objects around him as weapons and his defensive fighting caused the bullies to beat each other up. Brilliant.

 

[BriGuy]

The Karate Kid

Rated: PG

For the purposes of the poll: Excellent.

My Grade: A-

--------------------------------------------------

It's been a few years since I've seen the original The Karate Kid but near as I can remember this movie follows the original almost note-for-note.

Yes, it does for the most part, and in doing so is respectful of the original. Fans of the original will notice and appreciate these things. Or, it could be looked at as a rehash with some different dressing, depends on point of view, I guess.

That being said, it wouldn't be fair to compare this movie to the original. Frankly, the original isn't that good. Instead I'd compare this move to the original Rocky. That's right, I said Rocky.

The original The Karate Kid is '80s teen-movie cheese. It's good for what that is, but come-on, it was hardly high-brown dramatic awesome. It stars Ralph Macchio for crying out loud.

You're basing that on opinions and views of Macchio today? I don't recall there being any ill feelings toward him back then. Not really fair to cast the original movie on his career since then.

I wouldn't say it's "80s cheese." It's a product of its time. What I do find hard to stomach about the movie is the "high school angst" more so than any kind of cheesiness. When you're an adult, it's hard to take any of the high school drama seriously. That's why I found myself preferring Karate Kid II over the original.

This "remake" takes the original move and gives it a nice main-line of drama, heart and passion. There will be times in this movie where you'll want to cheer, clap and applaud as our main character reaches his goals kicks ass. And Jackie Chan you'll be looking at him and going... "This man can act?!" Seriously, the guy is good any "Oscar Talk" isn't hyperbole I could realistically sea a nomination. Jaden Smith is the spitting image of his charismatic father and, honestly, could probably out-act him. This is another young Hollywood up-comer for us to watch.

Yup, Jaden has his dad's charisma and presence. Hopefully he can capitalize and grow and not end up falling victim to the child star curse.

The movie starts off as Dre (played by Will Smith's son Jaden) and his mother are moving out of the Detroit (?) apartment, Dre marks off his height on a door-jam where other marks have been made throughout his life including accomplishments as his first steps, his words, his first day at school and his father dying. Dren's mother has taken a job in China and two are moving there much to the dislike of Dre.

When they arrive Dre has a rough time as he doesn't speak the language and as a result he has a hard time talking to people and watching TV, he does find friendship in a young girl in his class who can speak English, unfortunately, another boy in his school has an interest in her as well -or has tasked himself with protecting her because their families are close- and Dre and Cheng quickly get in a fight when Dre gets his ass handed to him and unfortunately has brought on the wrath of Cheng and his posse of bullies who're all in an advanced Kung-Fu class with a instructor who enforces an "offensive" style of Kung-Fu. Dre enlists to aide of his apartment's maintenance man Mr. Han to help him with the bullies, Chen ends up getting the bullies off Dren's back but at the cost of Dre having to compete in an upcoming open Kun-Fu tourney.

So Han begins training Dre in a slightly Myagian-sytle of "defensive" Kung-Fu, Han himself, a reclusive man, also shows some inner struggles.

The movie does the training/fight montages very, very well and also builds the friendship between Han and Dre well too in a very Daniel/Myagi-ian way but it's given an ounce of two of depth in heart in the final fighting/training scene following a powerful dramatic moment featuring Chan. The plot, the characters and things along those lines in this movie are very improved over the original. I've got nothing bad to say about any of that. What knocks this movie do is that it's slightly over-produced and under-edited. This thing is like the Second-Unit Director's cut. Too many establishing shots or moments where really nothing is happening, this excludes the fighting/training montages but this movie is, perhaps, a bit longer than it needs to be.

Well, if you're saying Chan/Han's heartbreaking story to Dre lifts this over the original, then you're forgetting that Mr. Miyagi also had a soul bruising story to tell Daniel in the original as well that brought them closer. And in both cases, they got drunk.

The theater I saw this in was pretty full, considering it was mid-afternoon on a weekday, and everyone -including myself- applauded at the end, it's that good. There were times during the fighting scenes where I wanted to clap, pump a fist, or do something along those lines. All of their performances are great and, well, go see this movie. You're not likely to regret it.

Folks in my theater applauded at the end too. I restrained myself. It's not like they can hear you, right?

 

[David cgc]

This thing is like the Second-Unit Director's cut.

I am so stealing this.

 

[BriGuy]

If he doesn't want to see the movie because it's a remake that's all fine and good. But he's making entire judgements and qualifications on the movie having not seen it and that is out of line.

The training montages, for example, in this movie are very well done and the kid doesn't learn Kung-Fu in just one of them, there's a couple of them and the movie even rights some of the kid's ease of picking it up in saying that he had some firendly "lessons" from a friend or relative who knew a martial art.

But the movie does the training very, very well. Esp. when Dre gets the "mirror sticks" or whatever they are and coxes Han out of the car in a druken stupor. The relationship built here between Dre and Han is brillant, heart-felt and powerful. I'm going to need to go back and watch the original here in the next week or so to compare these two movies more fairly (again, it's been a few years since I saw the original.)

But, really, this movie is at the very least as good as the original but, honestly, from what I recall it surpasses it in spades. I loved Chan's fight with the bullies using Chan's usual schtick of using objects around him as weapons and his defensive fighting caused the bullies to beat each other up. Brilliant.

What you said there at the end gets at my main criticism/concern about the new movie - the ages of the kids. They are just too darn young.

Yeah, I got caught up in it and thinking it was better or as good as the original. That feeling fades the farther you get away from it. Yes, it's a good movie. I need to watch the original again to decide if it's "better." Or I may not want to make that comparison.

But back to the age... as I saw it, the reason that fight was staged that way was not because of it being Chan's style, but because the kids are so young, you can't have your good guy hitting them and beating them up - so he uses them to hit each other. That way he doesn't come across as a guy who gets off on beating up kids.

Being slightly older also would've helped with the "love" story. Mid teens would've been better, IMO.

 

[Trekker4747]

Well, if you're saying Chan/Han's heartbreaking story to Dre lifts this over the original, then you're forgetting that Mr. Miyagi also had a soul bruising story to tell Daniel in the original as well that brought them closer. And in both cases, they got drunk.

Yeah, I forgot about that and it came back to me after I posted it. It must not have been very memorable in how it was acted or presented, then. Chan's acting in this scene though? Wow.

Folks in my theater applauded at the end too. I restrained myself. It's not like they can hear you, right?

I hear this argument a lot on the "clapping in the movies" thing and, well, whatever. It's a way to express feelings and show others how you feel. It's a way to "vent" glee, I guess. I mean, seriously there were times during the big-fight at the end I wanted to shout "Yes!" and cheer. That says something about how well the movie pulled you into it.

When I got home the first thing I wanted to do was talk about this movie so I called by best-friend and told him about it -he wasn't so sure about this movie.

So-long as you've not got an axe to grind against remakes -hell, I did too when I first heard about this-, the movie being made due to an ounce of nepotism, or just have a stick shoved-up your bum, go see this movie. It's easily the best movie of the Summer so-far.

 

[Trekker4747]

This thing is like the Second-Unit Director's cut.

I am so stealing this.

Might as well, I stole it too.

But back to the age... as I saw it, the reason that fight was staged that way was not because of it being Chan's style, but because the kids are so young, you can't have your good guy hitting them and beating them up - so he uses them to hit each other. That way he doesn't come across as a guy who gets off on beating up kids.

Yeah, that's why they had to do it, sure, and in part for it being Chan's style but, for me, it worked well. IIRC Miyagi didn't fight others either unless he really had to -and his fighting style was also defensive rather than offensive. Using younger actors worked for me, too. More so than teen actors -who you could argue aren't "kids." The younger kids worked for me and, obviously, makes the sequel potential that much easier to pull off. (If they do-do a sequel I hope it's its own set of stories rather than copying the original's sequel.)

As remakes go, this one does it right.

 

[BriGuy]

This thing is like the Second-Unit Director's cut.

I am so stealing this.

Might as well, I stole it too.

But back to the age... as I saw it, the reason that fight was staged that way was not because of it being Chan's style, but because the kids are so young, you can't have your good guy hitting them and beating them up - so he uses them to hit each other. That way he doesn't come across as a guy who gets off on beating up kids.

Yeah, that's why they had to do it, sure, and in part for it being Chan's style but, for me, it worked well. IIRC Miyagi didn't fight others either unless he really had to -and his fighting style was also defensive rather than offensive. Using younger actors worked for me, too. More so than teen actors -who you could argue aren't "kids." The younger kids worked for me and, obviously, makes the sequel potential that much easier to pull off. (If they do-do a sequel I hope it's its own set of stories rather than copying the original's sequel.)

As remakes go, this one does it right.

So if they do a sequel, will they move it to America?

If they stay in China, what would the story be? Dre touring the country and coping with his fame as the American boy who won the great Chinese kung fu tourney?

Yeah, Mr. Miyagi's style is also defensive. But I'm pretty sure when he came to Daniel's rescue, he did hit the punks.

Also what made the original so good - and this is a point the new movie can't claim - is that having Miyagi come to Daniel's rescue was a complete and total shock and surprise, that this "old man" could be a karate fighter and be able to take on and take down all those young guys.

 

[Chrisisall]

Also what made the original so good - and this is a point the new movie can't claim - is that having Miyagi come to Daniel's rescue was a complete and total shock and surprise, that this "old man" could be a karate fighter and be able to take on and take down all those young guys.

Awwww, back then I saw it coming, and yeah, I cheered anyway!

Colour me a martial arts 'seer'.

 

[BriGuy]

Also what made the original so good - and this is a point the new movie can't claim - is that having Miyagi come to Daniel's rescue was a complete and total shock and surprise, that this "old man" could be a karate fighter and be able to take on and take down all those young guys.

Awwww, back then I saw it coming, and yeah, I cheered anyway!

Colour me a martial arts 'seer'.

Also wanted to add to my comment that it's a point that the new movie didn't need, either.

Maybe the last thing I can point out is that in the original, Miyagi had Daniel doing a number of things - waxing the car, painting the fence, sanding the floor, etc. - to learn karate moves. In the new movie, it's just the one thing - the jacket. I thought Mr. Miyagi's multiple technique approach was better.

 

[Chrisisall]

I thought Mr. Miyagi's multiple technique approach was better.

In a lyrical sense, I can see that.

 

[Trekker4747]

Also what made the original so good - and this is a point the new movie can't claim - is that having Miyagi come to Daniel's rescue was a complete and total shock and surprise, that this "old man" could be a karate fighter and be able to take on and take down all those young guys.

Awwww, back then I saw it coming, and yeah, I cheered anyway!

Colour me a martial arts 'seer'.

Also wanted to add to my comment that it's a point that the new movie didn't need, either.

Maybe the last thing I can point out is that in the original, Miyagi had Daniel doing a number of things - waxing the car, painting the fence, sanding the floor, etc. - to learn karate moves. In the new movie, it's just the one thing - the jacket. I thought Mr. Miyagi's multiple technique approach was better.

I agree, I think there should've been other things that Han would have Dre do to build the reflexive actions other than just the coat thing, but the coat also seemed to be more about discipline than just teaching an impulsive move. I loved the scene where Dre comes home and automaticaly hangs-up the jacket and the mom's just like: .

But yeah, it needed more "wax on/wax off" type scenes.

 

[Misfit Toy]

Gone with the Wind has already been remade as a TV mini-series.

?? Link?

 

[Star Wolf]

If he doesn't want to see the movie because it's a remake that's all fine and good. But he's making entire judgements and qualifications on the movie having not seen it and that is out of line.

The training montages, for example, in this movie are very well done and the kid doesn't learn Kung-Fu in just one of them, there's a couple of them and the movie even rights some of the kid's ease of picking it up in saying that he had some firendly "lessons" from a friend or relative who knew a martial art.

But the movie does the training very, very well. Esp. when Dre gets the "mirror sticks" or whatever they are and coxes Han out of the car in a druken stupor. The relationship built here between Dre and Han is brillant, heart-felt and powerful. I'm going to need to go back and watch the original here in the next week or so to compare these two movies more fairly (again, it's been a few years since I saw the original.)

But, really, this movie is at the very least as good as the original but, honestly, from what I recall it surpasses it in spades. I loved Chan's fight with the bullies using Chan's usual schtick of using objects around him as weapons and his defensive fighting caused the bullies to beat each other up. Brilliant.

What you said there at the end gets at my main criticism/concern about the new movie - the ages of the kids. They are just too darn young.

Yeah, I got caught up in it and thinking it was better or as good as the original. That feeling fades the farther you get away from it. Yes, it's a good movie. I need to watch the original again to decide if it's "better." Or I may not want to make that comparison.

But back to the age... as I saw it, the reason that fight was staged that way was not because of it being Chan's style, but because the kids are so young, you can't have your good guy hitting them and beating them up - so he uses them to hit each other. That way he doesn't come across as a guy who gets off on beating up kids.

Being slightly older also would've helped with the "love" story. Mid teens would've been better, IMO.

That is my concern also. Ultimately you have 11 year old's fighting over a girl. Also with Mr. Miyagi you had a senior citizen who you expect a gang of late teens might make short work of at first sight.

 

[Ganja Tea]

Personally I was a fan of the original Karate Kid movies. Loved the first one and it's message and I was prepared to hate this film because one, I hate frigging remakes, and secondly I hate kids in movies because they are usually whiny and annoying. This movie really had to do a lot to bring me around and frankly I think it knocked out of the park. By the end I was a full on fan and looking forward to seeing even more of Jaden Smith. Everyone I was with commented on how much charisma that kid has and Jackie Chan was just awesome. I love his comedies and his goofy persona but he dropped that completely here and just gave an excellent performance and who wasn't close to tears in that car scene?

Really good movie, really good performances all around, even with the bad guys, the mother, the love interest. Everyone was just awesome. I will be seeing it again and adding it to my blue ray collection when it comes out.

 

[Trekker4747]

Ganja, you and I butt heads a lot in TNZ, but you and I are in completely agreement here and I was very impressed with Jaden Smith. The charisma in him is awesome, hell, he pretty much oozes his father out of every poor. The 'tude-look of hanging up the jacket was just all Will Smith.

Awesome, excellent, movie. Anyone not seeing it because of it being a remake, bought for Jaden or whatever is seriously missing out on a fantastic movie.

 

[Star Wolf]

If he doesn't want to see the movie because it's a remake that's all fine and good. But he's making entire judgements and qualifications on the movie having not seen it and that is out of line.

The training montages, for example, in this movie are very well done and the kid doesn't learn Kung-Fu in just one of them, there's a couple of them and the movie even rights some of the kid's ease of picking it up in saying that he had some firendly "lessons" from a friend or relative who knew a martial art.

But the movie does the training very, very well. Esp. when Dre gets the "mirror sticks" or whatever they are and coxes Han out of the car in a druken stupor. The relationship built here between Dre and Han is brillant, heart-felt and powerful. I'm going to need to go back and watch the original here in the next week or so to compare these two movies more fairly (again, it's been a few years since I saw the original.)

But, really, this movie is at the very least as good as the original but, honestly, from what I recall it surpasses it in spades. I loved Chan's fight with the bullies using Chan's usual schtick of using objects around him as weapons and his defensive fighting caused the bullies to beat each other up. Brilliant.

They are truly the same movie. While Dre had someone show him a couple of forms of Brazilian martial arts Danial LaRusso had taken some karate at the YMCA and was going out for soccer when he was bounced for fighting.

In my opinion the Mr. Miyagi/Cobra Kai fight plays better then the Mr. Han/Dragoons fight. The shock factor of Arnold from Happy Days issuing a beat down just worked better then Jackie Chan doing Jackie Chan. And it fit the seriousness of Dre/Danial being forced to fight better.

 

[Trekker4747]

Having bought and watched the original on BD this week, I dunno. Miyagi/Pat Morita are is awesome. But, part of me doubts it was Pat in the fight scene it's more likely it was a stunt double. And, yeah, Jackie Chan was just doing his usual thing in his fight scene but it was a bit longer and more interesting to watch fight scene than "kick, kick, punch they're all down!" It's really hard, I think, now to comapre the two movies. Even though both are pretty much precisely the exact same story both tell it differently with seeming different dramatic intents.

I suspect a "Nostalgia Critic" "Old vs. New" review of this when the movies comes out on DVD, should be interesting.

 

[Star Wolf]

It may be a generational thing bu5t on first sight Jackie Chan brings Jackie Chan to any role he plays but back in 1984 Pat(not Noriku yet) Morita brought Arnold. We all knew it was a stunt double, Morita didn't have the baggage that Chan, Norris, Segal, Van Damne carry in having to do their on stunts on their fight scenes.

 

[joVuNik]

I went with my kids to see this on the weekend, with no expectations, and being a fan of the original (although I have not seen it in a loooong time), I have to say I was utterly blown away!

This movie was awesome. A lot of posters have pointed it out, but Smith's kid can act really well, and shows very powerful range. I found the story solid and was well put together, giving us enough character and depth in the hero and 'villains'. No cartoon characters here.

But what made the movie for me was Jackie Chan. This was Jackie as I have never seen him before. No silly faces, no silly acting, he was brilliant in his role, the drama and emotions he evoked in the audience with that bit in the car and the boy; wow, unreal!

I hate to say it, but this movie in its acting, storyline, character 'depth', training scenes, far surpasses the original.

I'll have to watch the original again just to compare, but from what I remember the stiff acting of 'Daniel-san' leads me to think it will not compare.

My only issues I guess would be its length and calling it Karate when it's Kung Fu, but meh whatever. Minor things in the grand scheme of things.