Who prefers Archer/T'Pol?
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Please don't forget the officially published "Re-launch" series of books. Remember in the last novel ...and I also rely on fanfiction to see a functional future for them.
Beneath The Raptors Wings established that Trip & T'Pol are married.
Please don't forget the officially published "Re-launch" series of books. Remember in the last novel ...
Beneath The Raptors Wings established that Trip & T'Pol are married.
Certainly I don't forget the books, I consider them more or less canon! I just like to read the different approaches to the matter different writers have
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I would have enjoyed a certain Mulder/Scully dynamic for the two of them, certainly much more to my liking than Trip/T'Pol, which always felt way too shoehorned-in, starting with that cringe-worthy decon scene in the pilot.
Don't get me wrong, I can enjoy a sexed-up Star Trek show - to an extent - but when I first saw that scene, I would have bet good money the writers would find an excuse for some T/T action in the future. Basically, it was as subtle as a brick.
Don't get me wrong, I can enjoy a sexed-up Star Trek show - to an extent - but when I first saw that scene, I would have bet good money the writers would find an excuse for some T/T action in the future. Basically, it was as subtle as a brick.
I really liked Archer/T'Pol as a pairing. And I'm not really one of those people who root for couples getting together, and I certainly didn't believe they would get together on Enterprise. (Although I certainly thought the last scenes of the show would make that a suggestion and ... hey, I wasn't disappointed.)
Archer/T'Pol showed friendship, caring, self-sacrifice (on both parties), going to "the mat" for the other, safeguarding reputation, acceptance of the others' culture, trust, changing opinions based on the other .... More than that, it had the fabled "can't be done" commander and subordinate relationship between a captain and his first officer.
Not only that, I thought the two had on-stage/on-television presence. Through good acting, and simple things like putting a hand on the shoulder, etc., I thought they also depicted a great connection.
Rather than derail the thread, I'll simply say I didn't care for Trip/T'Pol for many reasons.
I agree with the non-canon opinion. I have come to believe the authors are trying to make the best of a strange situation. Trip/T'Pol were never settled on-air. I think the authors are trying to give some fans "peace" on that issue. Personally, I think it's a giant waste of time, but then - I don't read a lot of the fan books any more.
Beyond Antares, why do *you* like Archer/T'Pol? I'm wondering if your av says it all?
Michael Martin, author of the relaunch books, in an interview a few months ago called the novels "soft cannon" as opposed to the "hard canon" which is on screen. His point was that, as an "employee" of the franchise (he's actually a contractor of the franchise), he is tasked with moving the story line forward for the franchise owners (CBS/Paramount). There is no place else for Enterprise fans to go except the novels for anything official produced or franchise approved. As far as relationships and romances go, TPTB put it all out there in black and white and it's hard to dispute. So much for my rant. (Done with this topic, don't want to derail the thread)
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dude,you nailed it.
You have to admit, Mach5 does have a point!
I didn't prefer Archer/T'Pol but I can see why some people did.
I saw them more as the microcosm of the Human/Vulcan dynamic - as we watch them learn how to work together and become friends it parallels in the larger relationship between Vulcans & Humans. Adding a romance weakens that metaphor for me.
Oh and Reed/T'Pol all the way
I saw them more as the microcosm of the Human/Vulcan dynamic - as we watch them learn how to work together and become friends it parallels in the larger relationship between Vulcans & Humans. Adding a romance weakens that metaphor for me.
Oh and Reed/T'Pol all the way
I certainly would prefer Archer/T'Pol better because their relationship, as portrayed on screen, seemed much deeper. When I watched season 1, it seemed that the writers were playing with the idea of both Archer/T'Pol and Trip/T'Pol, and at the beginning, I thought that both could work (though I had already heard that there would be eventually be some Trip/T'Pol in later seasons, and no, I would not want to see a love triangle). Or rather, that decon scene in the pilot had me rolling my eyes and laughing, and it seemed like a really cheap and obvious way to 'sex up' the show and try to shoehorn some 'sexual tension'. But after Trip and T'Pol went from animosity to friendship, they had some really nice bonding/friendly moments in "Breaking the Ice", when he helped her make a decision to stay on the Enterprise - her first act of defiance against her Vulcan obligations. I thought that this would be the basis for their future relationship.I liked Archer/T'Pol, and Trip/Hoshi.
But then an odd thing happened: the show seemed to completely forget and ignore Trip/T'Pol for the next season and a half, while continuously developing Archer and T'Pol's relationship as friends and co-workers with a lot of subtext... and then in season 3, when you've almost forgotten that there ever was anything between T and T, they start forcing them together - through neuropressure sessions?! As portrayed, their relationship didn't seem very deep, and it didn't help that you always got the impression that T'Pol cared more about Archer and had stronger feelings for him. (as when she was worried for him in "Azati Prime"; and "Twilight" hinted that she was in love with him in the alternate timeline, and was actually prepared to leave everything to take care of him.) There were fewer instances when she showed such care to Trip - there was the scene when she comforted him about his sister, but if TPTB wanted a Trip/T'Pol romance, they should have written more scenes like that, or like the scenes from "Breaking the Ice", scenes that were about their connection rather than just sex or awkward post-coital conversations. T/T could have been great, but it was not written that way.
That said, I did find a few of their scenes very touching - the ending of "Home" and especially the ending of "Terra Prime", which should have been the series finale.
I don't remember any Trip/Hoshi subtext though (except for "Acquisition" when Trip pretends that Hoshi is his wife).
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But Archer wouldn't go there. Trip would. Maybe in the end it came down to that.
You have to admit, Mach5 does have a point!
I'm gonna have to remember this as I start rewatching the series.
I certainly would prefer Archer/T'Pol better because their relationship, as portrayed on screen, seemed much deeper. When I watched season 1, it seemed that the writers were playing with the idea of both Archer/T'Pol and Trip/T'Pol, and at the beginning, I thought that both could work (though I had already heard that there would be eventually be some Trip/T'Pol in later seasons, and no, I would not want to see a love triangle). Or rather, that decon scene in the pilot had me rolling my eyes and laughing, and it seemed like a really cheap and obvious way to 'sex up' the show and try to shoehorn some 'sexual tension'. But after Trip and T'Pol went from animosity to friendship, they had some really nice bonding/friendly moments in "Breaking the Ice", when he helped her make a decision to stay on the Enterprise - her first act of defiance against her Vulcan obligations. I thought that this would be the basis for their future relationship.I liked Archer/T'Pol, and Trip/Hoshi.
But then an odd thing happened: the show seemed to completely forget and ignore Trip/T'Pol for the next season and a half, while continuously developing Archer and T'Pol's relationship as friends and co-workers with a lot of subtext... and then in season 3, when you've almost forgotten that there ever was anything between T and T, they start forcing them together - through neuropressure sessions?! As portrayed, their relationship didn't seem very deep, and it didn't help that you always got the impression that T'Pol cared more about Archer and had stronger feelings for him. (as when she was worried for him in "Azati Prime"; and "Twilight" hinted that she was in love with him in the alternate timeline, and was actually prepared to leave everything to take care of him.) There were fewer instances when she showed such care to Trip - there was the scene when she comforted him about his sister, but if TPTB wanted a Trip/T'Pol romance, they should have written more scenes like that, or like the scenes from "Breaking the Ice", scenes that were about their connection rather than just sex or awkward post-coital conversations. T/T could have been great, but it was not written that way.
Great analysis, DevilEyes! You've nailed what I enjoyed about A/T. They really seemed to build it up more. There was more substance there.
Whereas, with T/T, it was more like "We're two hot singles. Let's have sex."
I'll acknowledge that T/T grew more in later episodes. But A/T was deeper from the beginning, and I think there was more potential for those two.
I dunno. In Twilight, we found out Archer would've gone there.
You know, this is for an entirely different thread, but I'm disappointed Trip would "go there," when the writers clearly showed things weren't right with T'Pol.
Nice comments, DevilEyes. I agree with much of what you said. And I suspect you mean the end of Terra Prime rather than Demons (as the nice T/T'P moment).
I'll make my confession now. I never really liked Trip as a character. The "good ol' boy in space" angle just never did anything for me.
Archer was a much more formidable, sophisticated character...a man with the weight of his world's future on his shoulders. You could sense that he needed T'Pol to be his rock, and that T'Pol respected him more than any man she'd ever known.
Archer was a much more formidable, sophisticated character...a man with the weight of his world's future on his shoulders. You could sense that he needed T'Pol to be his rock, and that T'Pol respected him more than any man she'd ever known.
But would Archer have put up with her weaknesses? Her addiction, her emotional damage? I think she was not as much of his equal as he needed in a mate.
Well, everyone has their hang-ups, but I recall a ton of episodes where he confided in her and she - in turn - supported him and advised him through the myriad of tough decisions he had to make as captain. He leaned on her more than he did the other crew members.
Oh you're right, I always got those two confused. I never seem to remember which one is part 1 and which one is part 2.
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