What happened 20 years ago with the Klingons?

[Skrain Dukat]

in Redemption Pt 2 Picard states the Romulans have been trying to destroy the Klingon-Federation Alliance for "the past twenty years."

Later in Way of the Warrior Pt I Bashir says "Two decades of peace with the Klingons and it all comes down to this."

what happened twenty years ago between the Federation and the Klingons? Weren't the Khitomer Accords signed in 2293?

 

[Avon]

lazy writers

 

[neozeks]

Eh, the way I see it is that the accords from the movie just marked an end to the Federation-Klingon (possibly Romulan as well, they were present after all) Cold War, not the start of a formal alliance.

Only later, about 20 years before the TNG/DS9 era did the formal Federation-Klingon alliance come to be. Either the original accords were modified or a new accord was signed, again at Khitomer. After all, Insurrection mentions the Second Khitomer Accords. It's possible these were actually the accords that were constantly mentioned in TNG and DS9, not the first ones. Like I said, Romulans were present in the movie but they never seemed to be a part of the Accords in the TNG era.

And if I remember Yesterday's Enterprise correctly, what happened 20 years ago was the Enterprise-C's sacrifice in defending the Klingons at Narendra. That's what prompted a full alliance.

 

[indolover]

lazy writers

This.

It was never explained properly in any of the shows.

But IMO, the Federation and Klingons probably signed a revised treaty before TNG/DS9.

 

[Shatnertage]

What happened 20 years ago with the Klingons?

Sergeant Pepper taught the band to play?

Seriously, that's the first thing I thought of.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Narendra III

 

[Admiral Shran]

Eh, the way I see it is that the accords from the movie just marked an end to the Federation-Klingon (possibly Romulan as well, they were present after all) Cold War, not the start of a formal alliance.

Only later, about 20 years before the TNG/DS9 era did the formal Federation-Klingon alliance come to be. Either the original accords were modified or a new accord was signed, again at Khitomer. After all, Insurrection mentions the Second Khitomer Accords. It's possible these were actually the accords that were constantly mentioned in TNG and DS9, not the first ones. Like I said, Romulans were present in the movie but they never seemed to be a part of the Accords in the TNG era.

And if I remember Yesterday's Enterprise correctly, what happened 20 years ago was the Enterprise-C's sacrifice in defending the Klingons at Narendra. That's what prompted a full alliance.

This.

What happens in Star Trek VI is not the formation of the Federation-Klingon Alliance from TNG-DS9-VOY. It's simply the cessation of hostilities. It's a lot like what happened between the United States and the Soviet Union between 1989 and 1991. The Cold War ended, but we didn't enter into a formal alliance with Russia.

The Enterprise-C's destruction at Narendra III happened "twenty years ago," and that is what most likely sparked the fully-fledged alliance between the two powers.

It wasn't lazy writing, it was good writing with an eye to consistency. The writers in Redemption and The Way of the Warrior remembered the events of Yesterday's Enterprise.

 

[Timo]

It seems to me that neither of the two-decade references actually concerns the UFP and its Klingon alliance directly. Rather, they specifically deal with third parties.

That is, the UFP-Klingon alliance isn't 20 years old - the Romulan attempt to undermine it is. And the 20 years of peace in "Way of the Warrior" were not between the UFP and the KE - they were between the KE and the Cardassian Union, nailing down the Betreka Nebula nastiness as having ended 20 years prior to that DS9 episode, and thus establishing that it began 20+18 years before the episode.

Also, it seems to me that this was obvious writer intent in both cases. No laziness there, no deliberate attempt at or accidental stumbling into contradiction. Both references hit more or less virgin soil: "Redemption" was free to postulate that Narendra III had been the first time the Romulans backstabbed the Klingons in the 24th century, and "Way of the Warrior" had complete freedom in establishing the timetable and scope of Klingon-Cardassian hostilities. Both did a good job at the respective pseudohistory pieces, and both ideas have remained uncontradicted in later works as well.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Lord Garth]

I always saw it as peace being achieved with the Klingons in 2293 and an alliance forming in 2344.

Or, to use a real world example, just because Cold War ended doesn't mean the United States is allies with Russia.

 

[neozeks]

And the 20 years of peace in "Way of the Warrior" were not between the UFP and the KE - they were between the KE and the Cardassian Union, nailing down the Betreka Nebula nastiness as having ended 20 years prior to that DS9 episode, and thus establishing that it began 20+18 years before the episode.

Nah, I'm pretty sure Bashir talked about the Federation and the Klingons. He says it only moments before Sisko finaly decides to open fire on the Klingons and thus start hostilities between the two powers.

 

[Timo]

...But, OTOH, a few seconds after witnessing for the first time the deadly results of the Klingon attack, and while watching the spatial graveyard in front of his very eyes. A Cardassian graveyard, with no harm done to the UFP, and none forthcoming, either.

The decision to do combat with Klingons comes quite a bit later; at that point, it's not even clear whether Sisko would wish to confront them, let alone fire at them.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[neozeks]

I suppose you could interpret it your way but I think the writer's intention was pretty clear - the 'this' that it all comes down to is the obvious need to go in and save Dukat's ship, even if it means a war with the Klingons.

 

[indolover]

And the 20 years of peace in "Way of the Warrior" were not between the UFP and the KE - they were between the KE and the Cardassian Union, nailing down the Betreka Nebula nastiness as having ended 20 years prior to that DS9 episode, and thus establishing that it began 20+18 years before the episode.

Nah, I'm pretty sure Bashir talked about the Federation and the Klingons. He says it only moments before Sisko finaly decides to open fire on the Klingons and thus start hostilities between the two powers.

There only was war in early season five. Gowron halted war when the Klingons were attacking DS9.

 

[flemm]

There only was war in early season five. Gowron halted war when the Klingons were attacking DS9.

Season 4, but yeah. The Klingons withdraw from the Khitomer accords prior to invading Cardassia when the Federation refuses to support their offensive.

By aiding the Cardassians, Sisko risks starting an all-out war with the Klingons, which seems to be where events are heading when the Klingons attack DS9 to retrieve the Cardassian leaders rescued by the Defiant.

At the end of the battle, Sisko and Worf are able to convince Gowron to stand down rather than hand victory to the Dominion by plunging the Federation and Klingon empire into a costly war (despite the protestations of what turns out to be Changeling-Martok).

So, open war is narrowly averted, but the Federation and Klingons are no longer allies until Dukat drives the Klingons from Cardassian space with the help of the Dominion in season 5, at which point Sisko and Gowron re-establish the Khitomer accords (By Inferno's Light).

 

[Vanyel]

I thought there was a state of war or at the very least, skirmishes between the UFP and the KE. I would think ...Nor the Battle to the Strong would establish that.

 

[flemm]

I thought there was a state of war or at the very least, skirmishes between the UFP and the KE. I would think ...Nor the Battle to the Strong would establish that.

Yeah, as I recall their are some skimrishes as you say.

 

[captcalhoun]

there is war between the UFP and KE between Way of the Warrior and By Inferno's Light/In Purgatory's Shadow because several clashes are mentioned in several episodes and at the end of WOTW the DS9 command staff recieve word that the Klingons aren't pulling out of Cardassian space and are actually digging in.

 

[neozeks]

Well, from WOTW to the end of season 4 it isn't exactly war, it's more of a cold war with individual incidents (Klingons laying mines near Bajor, Starfleet protecting humanitarian convoys to Cardassia etc). Then open war starts in Broken Link (over the Archanis sector), presumably lasts during the break within the seasons and is then ended with a ceasefire at the start of season 5. Though this ceasefire is broken by the Klingons at least one time (Nor the Battle...).

 

[Timo]

Sounds like business as usual, then. "Aquiel" made mention of Klingons continuing to raid UFP outposts until seven years prior to the episode, that is, one year before the beginning of TNG. For supposed allies, the Klingons have apparently always been great believers in the old saying "With friends like these..."!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[CommanderRaytas]

Eh, the way I see it is that the accords from the movie just marked an end to the Federation-Klingon (possibly Romulan as well, they were present after all) Cold War, not the start of a formal alliance.

Only later, about 20 years before the TNG/DS9 era did the formal Federation-Klingon alliance come to be. Either the original accords were modified or a new accord was signed, again at Khitomer. After all, Insurrection mentions the Second Khitomer Accords. It's possible these were actually the accords that were constantly mentioned in TNG and DS9, not the first ones. Like I said, Romulans were present in the movie but they never seemed to be a part of the Accords in the TNG era.

And if I remember Yesterday's Enterprise correctly, what happened 20 years ago was the Enterprise-C's sacrifice in defending the Klingons at Narendra. That's what prompted a full alliance.

It probably started as a mistake, but this explanation is much more satisfying.