OMG You've just proved me right!
Gaith does Wonder Woman
- Thread starter Gaith
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Read the rest of what I said.
The fact that the three of you are so horrified by my views speaks for itself. Well, two of you - Checkmate doesn't have a clue what he's talking about but that's not unusual.
I would agree with you on storytelling, but that was not the point of the scene in IM2. Besides from the cool acrobatics (and Scarlett Johansson in a leather catsuit), it served the purpose of underlying the fighting skills of Natalia (which didn't had much exposure previously in the movie). In a superhero world, a bunch of security guards is not match for the Black Widow, opposite to "normal guys" like Hogan. So your point doesn't make sense in context. I never saw the Red Sonja movie, but if you want a girl beaten up by villains, you don't need to look further than Buffy, who gets her ass kicked aplenty but in the end triumph over the bad guys.
Given that she's not the main character, the scenes didn't particularly bother me. I only raised Black Widow to counter Checkmate's example of a recent movie.
Now this is the part where it's easy to misunderstand me. Don't think that I want to see a woman get beaten to a bloody pulp. I don't watch horror movies anymore for a reason. (Well, two reasons - the other being that they all seem to be remakes of classics these days)
IIRC, I did mention and praise Buffy earlier. They did it right, Buffy often lost to the Big Bad before winning in the end.
Oh, and word of advice, as you haven't seen Red Sonja - don't bother!
Checkmate
Commodore
Which does fuck-all to address the point at hand. I can name countless recent movies that don't include tough women getting roughed up. I can also name a few (especially if you count television shows) where the opposite is true, too. Burn Notice and The Losers come immediately to mind.
Given that you couldn't even comprehend a simple article last week, and then ran away from the discussion after multiple posters called you on it, you really can't claim any high ground here.
Your so-called "remarkable ability" seems to be letting you down here, that's for sure.
Checkmate
Commodore
I don't even have a clue what you're referring to.
Edit: Oh wait, are you talking about that thread where you backpeddled like a fool and actually thought anyone worth a damn was buying it? <just pats your little head again> You really should get out more if your whole life revolves around minor, worthless discussions like that. You really, really should.
But somehow I doubt you will.
Edit: Oh wait, are you talking about that thread where you backpeddled like a fool and actually thought anyone worth a damn was buying it? <just pats your little head again> You really should get out more if your whole life revolves around minor, worthless discussions like that. You really, really should.
But somehow I doubt you will.
I see, but I still think they are very different instances.
No, you misunderstood me. I didn't meant to imply you like to see women beaten to a pulp, I was just providing an example of that happening. If I wanted to badmouth you, I would have done it more overtly.
I had no intention, but thanks for the advice.
No, I'm talking about the thread where I asked you to prove your case several times. Then several other posters asked you to prove your case several more times.
Why ? Because you can't comprehend anything. You wade in looking for a fight and then run away when you can't prove your case.
You see, I raised that because I have this thing called a memory. You can't really form opinions without one, you realise that, don't you ?
As for your judgemental view of "worth a damn". There was you, a guy who fills in his sentences with F-words because apparently that makes him look like he's not twelve years old, and doubleohfive - and the less said about that guy the better.
From now on, if you find anything I say objectionable, notify the moderators. Otherwise, be quiet and behave yourself.
If I wanted to badmouth you, I would have done it more overtly.
That much is obvious.
What can I say, I'm good at communicating.
Excellent ideaMorena Baccarin
Because she can act and she can look very hot in leather, but she needs to grow her hair out again.
Definetly a worthy candidate
Maybe someone more able should make a new thread/poll with all the candidates mentioned in this thread..and we can have an better talk about the topic
?
You mean Wonder Woman has a constant blank expression on her face?
Have Superman wear Wonder Woman's costume and Wonder Woman wear Superman's costume. Wait...it's been done already.
^ So just fix WW up *with* Superman and call it solved.
I think Lois might have an issue with that!
Nah...she's into it. Turns out Lois and Clark are swingers and frequently attend key parties.
You mean Wonder Woman has a constant blank expression on her face?
Have Superman wear Wonder Woman's costume and Wonder Woman wear Superman's costume. Wait...it's been done already.
^ So just fix WW up *with* Superman and call it solved.
I think Lois might have an issue with that!
Nah...she's into it. Turns out Lois and Clark are swingers and frequently attend key parties.
So is that why Superman used to have that giant key pointed to the Fortress?
Kick Ass does a good job of making Waif-Fu realistic. Hit-Girl does pretty much asshands everyone in the movie with the exception of the boss. The difference between this and most waif-fu movies is how she asshands them.
Hit-Girl has the strength of an 11 year old girl, which is to say very little. But she also has the energy, the agility, and the hand-eye coordination of an 11 year old girl, she's very ruthless, and she has equalizers.
Hit-Girl slaughters every mook she meets because she knows how to shoot people to death and she knows how to stab people to death and she's not afraid to do either. She doesn't spend 10 minutes Errol flynning with the mooks like most waif-fu artists. She goes for kill shots immediately. She often just stabs or shoots unaware people in the back and she occasionally kills people who are just trying to run away from her. She uses dirty tricks. She never stops moving and she never gives up her momentum.
But then she runs out of bullets and she runs out of knives and she's too angry to consider advancing to the rear so that she can retrieve a new weapon, so she just tries to beat the crap out of the guy with her bare hands and fails miserably at it. Because she has the strength and durability of an 11 year old girl while he has the strength and durability of a reasonably fit adult man.
However, Hit-Girl also isn't a protagonist. She's a supporting character. Kick-Ass is the protagonist and her defeat serves only to give him his big heroic moment.
Anyway, Waif-fu is the trope that any Wonder Woman movie must avert. It needs a sufficiently muscular protagonist. The muscular warrior woman is a completely different trope and a warrior-woman is much more likely to suffer injury in battle.
If they decide to ass Donna Troy, then maybe they can use the Hit-Girl brand of Waif-fu, that plays to the hyper-agile waif's strengths and requires a willingness to kill quickly to pull off right.
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Yes. I'm really, really sure about that. Every image you linked to is from oh, more than a thousand years or so after the era of the ancient Greeks. If you look at Greek depictions of Amazons, you see them shown in the typical Greek depiction of Easterners. This typical depiction was of people wearing sort of spotted or striped trousers, peaked caps, sometimes an over tunic with a skirt - but not hoplite armor, which is the standard look people think of when they think of classical warriors.
Amazons:
Here
Here
Here
The closest a depiction of an Amazon ever gets to "classical" is the famous Achilles versus Amazon on this vase, on which the Amazon wears a helmet similar to Achilles', but her dress is still clearly different.
Beginning the the mid-1990s a series of archeological finds have changed the general belief that the Amazons were figures of pure myth. Herodotus, the Greek historian, wrote of the Scythians, eastern warriors of whom the Amazons were a tribe. Recent excavations of Scythian graves have found burials of women who were obviously of great status (indicated by grave goods, horses being buried with them, rich dress, battle armor and weapons which show wear from war), female skeletons bear the signs bowed legs, indicating a life lived on horseback, as well as battle injuries.
Amazons in the Scythia: New Finds in the Middle Don, Southern Russia
Archeological Finds Pertaining to the Amazons
New finds are still being turned up. Just as people once thought Troy was merely Greek mythology and it has turned out to have a real history, the same is apparently true of Amazons.
This material provides a much more interesting, compelling, and historically accurate, background for Wonder Woman. Costumes and whatnot may be seen by many as essential elements to a character - but Wonder Woman is first, foremost, and most clearly, an Amazon. While those who study the ancient world have always been clear on the fact that Amazons were not Greek, as the images you linked to show, they got confused in the public imagination with the Greeks in the art of the neo-classical period (late 18th century) and this carried over into the creation of Wonder Woman. But it's becoming more and more clear that there's much more interesting history there to mine - so why not do so?
Nah. I would argue that she is first and foremost a famous comic book superheroine, who was never meant to be an historically accurate depiction of an Amazon, unless the ancient Amazons also had magic golden lassos, bulletproof bracelets, and invisible airplanes.
There are no doubt good stories to be told about the actual Amazons. (Check out The Amazon and the Warrior by Judith Hand, published by Tor a few years back.) But that's not WONDER WOMAN.
