A Sequel Series to Deep Space Nine
- Thread starter Kane_Steel
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I would prefer a general show set after DS9. Not based on the actual station but we get to see it occasionally. I would like to see Cardassians go Iraqi on the asses of the Alliance and the rebuilding of the Federation,Klingon and Romulan empires. With certain members in the federation pissed of at at having to take the brunt of the Dominion assaults while places like Earth got full protection.
With all respect Maniarek, Star Trek is a character driven show. With the exception of Sisko, you didn't mention a single character. Is it just the old crew, are there any new faces, new allies, new villains?
Too much politics is one of the things that killed Enterprise, important as a occasional minor sub-plot. But please never a main subject.
Have the Federation break up, not just politically, but socially, culturally, have many of the member realize that one of the prime reasons they joined the Federation in the first place, protection, wasn't there when they needed it. That the action of the mechanism of their supposive protection, Starfleet, was a big part of what triggered the war that took so many lives.
Have our heroes face not just the Dominion, Cardassians, Romulans, but also have to face many of their former friends from the academy.
The member states that broke away in clumps took their "share" of Starfleet with them.
Nothing as ever said about members not being able to secede from the Federation anytime they wish, so this wouldn't have to be a civil war series.
^On the other hand, a civil war might be interesting. Either way, some unrest/schisms in the Federation would make for some great stories.
As much as I love DS9 (and I'm sure some of you will recognise me from the Niner forum), I don't think a new series should be set immediately after DS9, or even revisit it at all, unless its in a one-off special event sort of episode.
There are many reasons why it wouldn't work.
First of all, there's no guarantee that any of the original actors would come back, and as much as I enjoyed nuTrek recasting TOS, I think its a bit too soon to be recasting DS9 or any post TOS series for that matter. So they'd need to sculpt a series based on which of the original actors decided to come back.
And for those that don't think we need to see the original actors - what's the point of revisiting DS9 if we don't see the old characters?
Secondly, setting it post-Dominion War requires a lot of explanation to a new audience. Sure, we'd be happy to find out what happens to the Founders and Jem'hader, to see the state of the Feds, Klingons and Rommies, but try to market that to the general public!
Thirdly, I don't see much point in retelling the Dominion War in the nuTrek universe - surely there are exciting new tales and potential new wars. Let's face it, if they retold the Dom War, then all of us Niners would just spend all the time comparing the original to the new - and knowing what we're like, we'd probably hate the new version.
I think its best if we leave DS9 with What You Leave Behind, and I'll continue to read the relaunch novels
But I'd personally dread any new movies or series, for fear that they wouldn't live up to the original - and if they're just gonna be sub-par, then what's the point of making them in the first place?
And with all respect to you T'Girl, Star Trek has also always portrayed an optimistic future for humanity. That's a major part of what differentiates it from other science fiction and is the reason I prefer Trek to any other sci-fi series.
The Federation is the ultimate example of that vision, and breaking it up into a weakened state sounds very un-Star Trek to me. If anything I'd like to see a future series where old enemies like the Klingons, Rommies and Cardies have become Federation members!
When they eventually make a new series, which there's no doubt in my mind that they will (remember, TNG began 20 years after TOS had ended, and after a bunch of TOS movies had been made), I hope they set it in the future, post Dominion War, but not based after any one series (though guest stars from the original actors would be awesome).
There are many reasons why it wouldn't work.
First of all, there's no guarantee that any of the original actors would come back, and as much as I enjoyed nuTrek recasting TOS, I think its a bit too soon to be recasting DS9 or any post TOS series for that matter. So they'd need to sculpt a series based on which of the original actors decided to come back.
And for those that don't think we need to see the original actors - what's the point of revisiting DS9 if we don't see the old characters?
Secondly, setting it post-Dominion War requires a lot of explanation to a new audience. Sure, we'd be happy to find out what happens to the Founders and Jem'hader, to see the state of the Feds, Klingons and Rommies, but try to market that to the general public!
Thirdly, I don't see much point in retelling the Dominion War in the nuTrek universe - surely there are exciting new tales and potential new wars. Let's face it, if they retold the Dom War, then all of us Niners would just spend all the time comparing the original to the new - and knowing what we're like, we'd probably hate the new version.
I think its best if we leave DS9 with What You Leave Behind, and I'll continue to read the relaunch novels
But I'd personally dread any new movies or series, for fear that they wouldn't live up to the original - and if they're just gonna be sub-par, then what's the point of making them in the first place?And with all respect to you T'Girl, Star Trek has also always portrayed an optimistic future for humanity. That's a major part of what differentiates it from other science fiction and is the reason I prefer Trek to any other sci-fi series.
The Federation is the ultimate example of that vision, and breaking it up into a weakened state sounds very un-Star Trek to me. If anything I'd like to see a future series where old enemies like the Klingons, Rommies and Cardies have become Federation members!
When they eventually make a new series, which there's no doubt in my mind that they will (remember, TNG began 20 years after TOS had ended, and after a bunch of TOS movies had been made), I hope they set it in the future, post Dominion War, but not based after any one series (though guest stars from the original actors would be awesome).
I was agreeing with you up to this point. I'd really, really hate that. I don't want to see everyone in the Quadrant joining the Federation. It's a little scary to think of any galactic power becoming that powerful, and the idea that "the Federation way is the only right way, and you can all be saved only through the Federation" makes me sick. It makes me think of Eddington's comparison of Federation to Borg.
RobertScorpio
Pariah
The future of Star Trek has already arrived. The new movie series, for all the nay sayers, did what no one thought could be done; it re-did TOS, the only TREK show that has any long shelf life, and made it hip and made serious $$$. If Paramount is wise, and this has never been so, but if it is? It will veto any attempt to bring TREK back to TV until the new movie series runs it course. Many in this thread don't agree with that, but Paramount has already shown they don't care what the 'base' wants, and that is a good thing.
Now...once the movie series is done? Then yes, a new TREK series might be a good idea. But I hope not. After this current movie series fades away I hope TREK is put out to stud in the book world....forever.
Rob
Now...once the movie series is done? Then yes, a new TREK series might be a good idea. But I hope not. After this current movie series fades away I hope TREK is put out to stud in the book world....forever.
Rob
The only question is, can Paramount veto a TV series? CBS is an independent company with the TV rights to Star Trek. If CBS decides to make a series and use none of the Abrams movie IP, I'm not sure why Paramount has any say. Of course anything is possible in a contract, and until we see the contract both companies signed when Star Trek was split this is all speculation.
Well of course I can see your point, but I think you're twisting my intentions a bit. The whole idea of "the Federation way is the only right way" - that sounds more like the Dominion to me. I never said anything about the Federation 'saving' the Klingon, Romulan or Cardassian people.
I just think the idea of the Klingons, Romulans and Cardassians continuing to be hostile towards the Federation forever is a bit absurd, especially considering that the Klingons have been allies with the Federations for what, a century? Two centuries?
The way I can imagine it happening (and of course, I understand that other people will see it differently) is that over time, the Federation's peaceful interactions with the Klingons, Romulans and Cardassians will slowly be strengthened into mutual co-operation, then eventually an alliance, and then eventually, perhaps after centuries, it would only be logical for the Klingons, Romulans and Cardassians to join the Federation.
However, I also believe that it won't simply be a matter of those former empires being absorbed into the almighty Federation, and losing all sense of its former identity. I think that as each race joins the Federation, they will have a profound impact on the Federation and change it subtly from the Federation we currently know. At its core, the Federation is just a republic of 'nation'-states, united by the common ideals of universal liberty, equality, justice, peace, and cooperation. I don't see why, in the future, the various 'enemies' of the Federation couldn't change to embrace that same ideal, while still maintaining their sense of identity.
I'm not particularly well versed in how the modern EU works (you would know better than me, I assume), but from what I understand, it works in essentially the same way as the Federation. And isn't it true that nations who were formerly enemies are now essentially 'united' in the EU?
Don't lump me in with all of them, I fully agree that there's not going to be any new TV series until the movies have run its course. But I'm also not part of the group that thinks Trek is never going to return to TV.
As I said before, this pattern has already been seen - TOS was cancelled, then after a few years they started making movies which were really popular, so then they started making a new TV series. My prediction is that its going to happen again.
Why can't they remain separate states on peaceful and cooperative terms with each other? I don't think that everyone has to essentially become one state, in order not to have war and conflict. The idea of the entire quadrant being essentially united under one government doesn't sit well with me.
Why can't they embrace those ideals on their own, without becoming a part of the Federation? I don't believe that the Federation way is the only way. Another planet-state might prefer a completely different economic system, for instance. Or it might not be interested in exploration of distant planets.
And if the Federation does change that much, than it will be something else. For starters, it would need to change its name, if it were to be a loose confederation, or maybe not even that, but an organization similar to United Nations. Starfleet would also have to change its structure and role, and there might not even be a UFP Starfleet anymore. but an Earth Starfleet, etc.
EU is not nearly as 'united' as the Federation is. Its role in foreign policy is limited (e.g. EU cannot declare war on another state, or forbid any of its members to do the same), institutions such as European Parliament and European Council have far less power than the governments of individual states, and individuals states retain their own military forces and an amount of freedom in politics and economy (e.g. to refuse to replace their currency with the common currency of EU - only 11 out of 27 member states are using euro). It is, at best, a loose confederation. Furthermore, it is far from being the only major power on the planet. If the major powers of the Alpha Quadrant - Klingon Empire, Romulan Star Empire and Cardassian Union were to join the Federation, it would be more like USA, Russia and China joining a much more united and federal European Union.
Well of course there's no reason that the Federation, Klingons, Romulans and Cardassians can't remain separate and yet still exist on peaceful terms - I'm all for that, and hope that's what ends up happening!
My main point was simply that, whether united as part of the Federation, or not, I hope that future series (set post DS9) will have the Federation's former enemies become allies. As I think continuing conflict with the same races, when they've already been explored in so much depth, would be rather boring.
As for the whole... major Alpha Q powers uniting with the Federation 'issue', I must admit that I still don't see what's wrong with the idea - but thats probably because I also believe that humanity should be striving to form a United Earth, where nations like the United States, Russia and China would join with the EU (and other nations of course) to form a United Earth government, or at the very least, a loose confederation similar to the EU.
Is that a realistic ideal? Probably not. Is it going to happen in my lifetime? I highly doubt it. Would it really work? I don't know either way, but I can still hope for something better than what we've currently got.
And as I originally said, I see Star Trek as one of the only sci-fi series which shows humanity's future in an optimistic light - so of course I think having the Federation's former enemies eventually joining it, or allying with it, is only a natural extension of that ideal.
But, as always, I can accept that you and I (and probably many other people) have different views on the matter, and am happy to leave it at that.
That is complicated and messy. But I don't think Spock would stay quiet either. It would be illogical.
The information he has is from the future of an alternate dimension, and the changes between the NuReality and his original reality are irrevocable. I don't think the Temporal Prime Directive technically applies.
To have information on forthcoming natural disasters or potential political problems and not pass them along would not make sense. You are definitely rooting for your "home" team still. Give the Feds an advantage. The Doomsday Machine, the V'Ger probe, the Whale probe, the Qo'Nos moon, the Q, the Crystalline Entity, the Borg, the Bajoran Wormhole, the Dominion, the Founders, species 8472.
Plus all the technological gems he could pass along to their top eggheads. I think Spock would give him them the heads up. At the same time, I think they would keep said information close to the vest. Sisko would not know he was part Prophet, because Starfleet would not be sharing that information. Starfleet wouldn't tell Dukat all about how he ALMOST ruled Cardassia in another reality, etc etc.
The unstated undercurrent of Star Trek's political philosophy is benign imperialism. Once or twice, characters have referred to it bluntly - the Federation is worse than root beer, worse than the Borg, etc - but usually it goes unsaid, apparently because to the Fed characters, it's as natural a part of their reality as breathing. Of course the desired end state of the cosmos is that everyone joins the Federation, which is the best of all possible organizational structures. It's just one of those Star Trek things, like the mystery of why humans abandoned capitalism after eons of greedy competition.
All Seeing Eye
Admiral
MY IDEA FOR DS9 SEQUEL.
All the characters of the original DS9 series no longer serve on DS9 and have been relocated or retired so the actors who play them will serve no role in this series.
The year is 2387. It's 12 years since the end of the original DS9 series and thus the universe is 12 years beyond the Dominion war and thus people originally serving on DS9 have moved on in those 12 years.
The series begins with a fleet of Dominion ships coming through the wormhole. Leading the armada is the new Dominion flag ship carrying the entire changeling race. The Dominion is fleeing the Gamma Quadrant from a new enemy which has successfully driven the Dominion back and conquered most of Dominion territory. The changelings have fled to the Alpha Quadrant because the enemy were very close to locating and annihilating the Founders. Odo is still in the Gamma Quadrant fighting the good fight and never made it on time to escape the Gamma Quadrant and is presumed missing but still alive.
The new leader of the Founders requests asylum for his people and shortly after begins reinforcing the wormhole with mines and weapons platforms as well as with the Armada of ships.
Starfleet agrees to place the wormhole off limits until they can decide on a course of action. Meanwhile it becomes clear that the Dominion has fallen and all that remains is the great link and a couple of hundred Dominion ships.
Beyond the wormhole now lays an unknown enemy, an enemy with the power to destroy the Dominion and send the Founders fleeing. The Founders believe it's only a matter of time before they learn about the wormhole and like the Dominion did 12 years previously turn their attention to the Alpha Quadrant.
All the characters of the original DS9 series no longer serve on DS9 and have been relocated or retired so the actors who play them will serve no role in this series.
The year is 2387. It's 12 years since the end of the original DS9 series and thus the universe is 12 years beyond the Dominion war and thus people originally serving on DS9 have moved on in those 12 years.
The series begins with a fleet of Dominion ships coming through the wormhole. Leading the armada is the new Dominion flag ship carrying the entire changeling race. The Dominion is fleeing the Gamma Quadrant from a new enemy which has successfully driven the Dominion back and conquered most of Dominion territory. The changelings have fled to the Alpha Quadrant because the enemy were very close to locating and annihilating the Founders. Odo is still in the Gamma Quadrant fighting the good fight and never made it on time to escape the Gamma Quadrant and is presumed missing but still alive.
The new leader of the Founders requests asylum for his people and shortly after begins reinforcing the wormhole with mines and weapons platforms as well as with the Armada of ships.
Starfleet agrees to place the wormhole off limits until they can decide on a course of action. Meanwhile it becomes clear that the Dominion has fallen and all that remains is the great link and a couple of hundred Dominion ships.
Beyond the wormhole now lays an unknown enemy, an enemy with the power to destroy the Dominion and send the Founders fleeing. The Founders believe it's only a matter of time before they learn about the wormhole and like the Dominion did 12 years previously turn their attention to the Alpha Quadrant.
The obvious assumption in that scenario is that the unseen enemy will be scary and cool up until the point they make an appearance, whereupon they will be revealed to be a boring, lame ripoff of something else, most likely the Borg or maybe those guys from the Alien movies, and everyone will yawn and change the channel.
Prove I'm wrong.
Prove I'm wrong.
All Seeing Eye
Admiral
The problem with your ripoff mention is that just about all possible variations of bad guys have been done in ALL the sci fi series. Any new bad guy will be a mixture of previously seen ones.
We've already had cybernetic bad guys, other dimensional bad guys, nanite bad guys, replicant bad guys, warrior bad guys, secretative and cunning bad guys, shapeshifting bad guys. The list goes on, chances are you've seen it already.
If you have a bad guy that feeds on humans it's a ripoff of the Wraith.
If you have a bad guy that shapeshifts it's a ripoff of the Founders.
If you have a bad guy that's genetically engineered and grown it's a ripoff of the Jem'Hadar.
If you have a bad guy made from nanites it's a ripoff of the Replicators.
If you have a bad guy that can take over your body it's a ripoff of the Goa'uld.
If you have a bad guy from another dimension it's a ripoff of the sphere builders or the Orii in stargate.
If you have a bad guy that's cybernetic it's a ripoff of the Borg.
Any other possible variation of bad guy has either been done somewhere along the line or becomes completely lame simply because it's not good and the reason it's not good is because you've tried to make it something that hasn't been done before and therefore you've had to simply make do with whatever is left.
I don't really like the 'new mysterious adversary' idea but this part I find intriguing. Only I'd change it so that the Founders are fleeing an alliance of their former subject races who have rebelled and destroyed the Dominion. And it would have been even more interesting if the Link has actually changed because of Odo and the former subjects are just seeking revenge. It poses a nice chalenge for the Feds - do you help your former enemy or let them be destroyed?
One thing we all have to keep in mind the future Spock in Star Trek XI will be careful about altering the time line and make efforts to set events back to there original outcomes. A few things change, a few will not. However the bigger picture is how things are different without Vulcan. There will not be as many Vulcans in Starfleet in the century prior to "The Next Generation." Did the ancestors of Tuvok get killed when Nero destroyed Vulcan?
Something I have thought about is the Wormhole Aliens (Prophets) and Sisko being aware of history being altered. They have a perspective that time is not linear. One of my thoughts is have a ship returning to DS9 through the Wormhole while the changes take place that isolated the crew from all the changes. When they got back to the Alpha Quadrant, the crew ran into a big surprise. Maybe the Wormhole Aliens isolated the ship or the fact the ship was in the Wormhole isolate it? Leave it a mystery and reveal it in a later story...
Something I have thought about is the Wormhole Aliens (Prophets) and Sisko being aware of history being altered. They have a perspective that time is not linear. One of my thoughts is have a ship returning to DS9 through the Wormhole while the changes take place that isolated the crew from all the changes. When they got back to the Alpha Quadrant, the crew ran into a big surprise. Maybe the Wormhole Aliens isolated the ship or the fact the ship was in the Wormhole isolate it? Leave it a mystery and reveal it in a later story...
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