Is kirks womanizing incredibly unproffessional?
- Thread starter Kute
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He was hot; the babes were hot; I see no problem here.
Ambassadors should not engage in shenanigans with young women of foreign royal families
The male lead of a television show occasionally had romantic liaisons with females. Gasp, womanizer!
He never engaged in a relationship of any sort with a crew member (while not under the influence of the Dagger of the Mind, of course), so he was professional. In fact, he buried his attraction for Janice Rand in two episodes (The Naked Time and Miri) due to his sense of duty.
There's really no evidence for any sort of unprofessional liaisons in James T. Kirk. And, guess what? Naval captains in the real world are allowed to have romantic relationships with civilians that aren't crew members. Shocker!
And this will blow your mind: Spock and McCoy also had flings with non-crewmembers in the show. Gasp!
Wanna see unprofessional liaisons in Star Trek? Watch Spock suck face with Uhura in ST09
He never engaged in a relationship of any sort with a crew member (while not under the influence of the Dagger of the Mind, of course), so he was professional. In fact, he buried his attraction for Janice Rand in two episodes (The Naked Time and Miri) due to his sense of duty.
There's really no evidence for any sort of unprofessional liaisons in James T. Kirk. And, guess what? Naval captains in the real world are allowed to have romantic relationships with civilians that aren't crew members. Shocker!
And this will blow your mind: Spock and McCoy also had flings with non-crewmembers in the show. Gasp!
Wanna see unprofessional liaisons in Star Trek? Watch Spock suck face with Uhura in ST09
Now, I am not a fan of Kirk's sleeping around. However, if we're going to use the word unprofessional, it has to either interfere with his work time, create a conflict of interest in diplomatic situations, or involve sexual harassment (against his crew OR against civilians).
I know, personally, I would not trust him to deliver a fair performance appraisal of his female crew.
And for the same reason I found the Spock/Uhura relationship INCREDIBLY unprofessional.
I know, personally, I would not trust him to deliver a fair performance appraisal of his female crew.
And for the same reason I found the Spock/Uhura relationship INCREDIBLY unprofessional.
Actually, I'd argue that the very best word for characterizing Kirk's womanizing is "professional".
After all, Kirk only womanized when it benefited Starfleet, served the mission, and secured victory for the Federation. When looking at how coldly and calculatingly he approached all of his romances during TOS, I can't help but think he had little interest in women as such. Or if he did, he had it so perfectly under control that he could turn it on and off easier than he could his communicator. (Witness him fumbling with the grille in a couple of eps!)
The women Kirk actively charmed (say, Miranda Jones or Rayna) were threat forces to be negated, or convenient handles to threat forces to be negated. The ones who in turn attempted to charm Kirk (say, Nona or Druuna) were rather elegantly turned down. The women from Kirk's past who made a surprise reappearance did not interfere with Kirk's working hours: he only interacted with, say, Areel Shaw or the image of Ruth in his free time.
Starfleet would have had good reason to praise Kirk for his performances in this field. Perhaps that's where the Kragite Order of Heroism medal came from?
Timo Saloniemi
After all, Kirk only womanized when it benefited Starfleet, served the mission, and secured victory for the Federation. When looking at how coldly and calculatingly he approached all of his romances during TOS, I can't help but think he had little interest in women as such. Or if he did, he had it so perfectly under control that he could turn it on and off easier than he could his communicator. (Witness him fumbling with the grille in a couple of eps!)
The women Kirk actively charmed (say, Miranda Jones or Rayna) were threat forces to be negated, or convenient handles to threat forces to be negated. The ones who in turn attempted to charm Kirk (say, Nona or Druuna) were rather elegantly turned down. The women from Kirk's past who made a surprise reappearance did not interfere with Kirk's working hours: he only interacted with, say, Areel Shaw or the image of Ruth in his free time.
Starfleet would have had good reason to praise Kirk for his performances in this field. Perhaps that's where the Kragite Order of Heroism medal came from?
Timo Saloniemi
Ditto. Kirk's role as a ladies man is rather exaggerated.
Since when there are "male values" and "female values"? I don't seem to remember that morality was depending on gender...
Gawd, Brad Pitt sizzled as Achilles; he raised my BP. I have nothing against that or Kirk. I like to see women interested in Kirk. By the time STIV came out, and Gillian turned out to not be bowled over by him, I was disappointed. I liked it much better yesterday when I was watching Wink of an Eye and Deela, the queen, thought he was pretty. I think he's pretty, too.
Count me in on this, too.
Kirk was not the womanizer he's been parody as being. In fact, I would say that almost all of his liaisons were calculated moves that gave him the upper hand in situations that put his crew and/or the Federation at risk.
Now, Bill Shatner on the other hand...
When you consider the power and prestige of his position along with the appeal of a handsome, charismatic young man, I don't see how Kirk's conduct is anything other than exemplary. As was noted in Whitfield's "The Making of Star Trek", Kirk is in both a figurative and literal sense "married" to his ship. All of his other involvements, ultimately played second fiddle to that relationship. Considering how different the cultural standards of the day the writer's and producers were living in, his command style was remarkably enlightened. He treated his female crew the same way he treated the male crew members. Kind of interesting when you consider that Kirk was in some sense Roddenberry's alter ego and GR had what appears to be a well earned reputation as a skirt chaser, womanizer *insert adjective here*. Roddenberry seems to have set a higher standard for Kirk than he ever met himself.
Kirk obviously hasn't lived a celibate life style, but he puts his job first at all times and he wasn't getting nearly as much action as he could have because he had his priorities in order.
Kirk obviously hasn't lived a celibate life style, but he puts his job first at all times and he wasn't getting nearly as much action as he could have because he had his priorities in order.
I agree that the amount of womanizing was over exaggerated and it was usually done in the context of helping Kirk complete his missions. However, remember that professionalism is often boring to watch. TV exists for entertainment and creates times and events beyond our everyday, boring, real lives. 20 years ago, before they came out with TNG, I thought that TOS Kirk had too many women and they all fell into his arms too easily. But then they gave us TNG and "professional" Picard, and it was so boring, I'd rather go back to the "unprofessional" characters and romances.
Kinda like teh way wesley is Brannon and GR alter ego.
Males value truth, whereas females value sensitivity.
Females value commitment, males value individuality;
females value feelings, males value facts;
females value safety, males value fun.
Sure you can find exceptions (especially in our feminized society) but they only prove the rule.
Wolves have howled at the moon for centuries, yet it is still there.
And there's no shame in that.
Huh? Brannon Braga had nothing to do with the creation or development of Wesley Crusher. He didn't even join the TNG staff as an intern until roughly the same time that Wesley was written out of the show, and didn't become a staff writer until nearly a year later.
Those are all gross overgeneralizations. Male and female behavior are bell curves. Yes, their respective averages are a little different, but there's a ton of overlap.
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